Irish Citizenship

simongurnick

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I guess you were too young to remember the days in the 1980's when you could get an Irish passport for a a £1,000,000 investment. Now in no way was it sold. At the same time Michael Collins grand niece got married to a Canadian and he could get a passport but not citizenship and he was a computer programmer.

Messed up crap

It is
I hear Malta is making a few Bob these days selling their passport and citizenship

alastair

Geuze wrote: »

I've wondered about this.

If I live in Japan for 5-10 years, can I become Japanese?

Or does it hang on the difference between citizenship and nationality?

Clearly, many of the people awarded citizenship are not ethnically Irish / of Irish nationality.

If an African comes here as a bogus asylum-seeker, is given right to remain, lives here for several years, applies for naturalisation, and becomes an Irish citizen, they are clearly still an African.

But what about their future grandchildren?

Should citizenship be restricted to Celtic people?

Irish nationality - like Japanese nationality - has nothing to do with ethnicity. Ireland is not an ethno-State - and Irishness is not predicated on ethnicity.

Lonesomerhodes

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

They hand citizenship willy nilly now, thrown around like confetti at a wedding.

Should have to be able to speak Irish to become an Irish citizen.

Well the far left/socialists believe it's a plan to destroy Europe and white folk.
Interesting reading, I don't go in for these conspiracies only the far left do!.

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Idealism-Kalergi-destroy-European/dp/1913057097

I know more foreign people who can speak Irish than Irish people who can speak Irish

Yurt2

Geuze wrote: »

I've wondered about this.

If I live in Japan for 5-10 years, can I become Japanese?

Or does it hang on the difference between citizenship and nationality?

Clearly, many of the people awarded citizenship are not ethnically Irish / of Irish nationality.

If an African comes here as a bogus asylum-seeker, is given right to remain, lives here for several years, applies for naturalisation, and becomes an Irish citizen, they are clearly still an African.

But what about their future grandchildren?

Should citizenship be restricted to Celtic people?

I once met an ethnically Persian / Iranian gent who was a Japanese citizen. He spoke very good Japanese obviously.

Whether your average Japanese person would recognize him as 100% Japanese is another matter. There's a surprising amount of 'foreigners' that have settled in Japan over the decades.

An Ciarraioch

DubInMeath wrote: »

I know more foreign people who can speak Irish than Irish people who can speak Irish

Some of them even broadcast in Irish:

https://twitter.com/olamajekodunmi1/status/1233776777627041795

splinter65

tonysopprano wrote: »

Really?.

20000 people per annum, immigrate into Ireland, without being a burden on social welfare or claiming any welfare or housing allowances, and then legally work and pay all taxes and social contributions and then become citizens?

Hey, if this is the way, why then do we have to pay more taxes every year, rather than less?

Not being reliant on SW is not a condition of citizenship.

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

Should citizenship be restricted to Celtic people?

But why?

splinter65

tonysopprano wrote: »

As an example,

I come to Ireland in 2010, illegally or otherwise, but get asylum rights et al till 2017, (and because of this get citizenship), and work and pay tax till I reach 67 (or 68 or whatever the retirement age may be)

I qualify for the FULL PENSION PAYMENT

BUT

An irish person who only worked and paid taxes for 39 years cannot get the full payment

But you wouldn’t get citizenship in 2017 if you came here illegally in 2010 and remained here illegally since 2010.
You don’t know anything about applying for citizenship and your talking through your Swiss roll but go ahead and I’ll keep correcting you.

splinter65

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

They hand citizenship willy nilly now, thrown around like confetti at a wedding.

Should have to be able to speak Irish to become an Irish citizen.

Well the far left/socialists believe it's a plan to destroy Europe and white folk.
Interesting reading, I don't go in for these conspiracies only the far left do!.

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Idealism-Kalergi-destroy-European/dp/1913057097

It’s not the far left that believe it’s a plan to destroy Europe it’s the far right. Please continue talking ****e though.

splinter65

simongurnick wrote: »

Is it 1200 for all cases or just residency? I have kids born outside the country and would like them to be dual citizens at some point

If you are Irish then your children are Irish and a passport for each of them costs 25€

splinter65

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Haha. :cool:

Is that “haha”Irish? Can you translate it to English. I’m assuming that you speak fluent Irish if you expect all Irish citizens to be Gaelgoirs...

Alun

Cordell wrote: »

I would rather have that than the heap of paperwork that puts me away from it every time I consider applying.

Me too. In most European countries, apart from the UK and Ireland everyone, natives included, have to register with their local town hall or equivalent. That's all the proof you need that you've been resident for that period, not having to produce reams and reams of bank statements and letters like you do here.

Yurt2

Alun wrote: »

Me too. In most European countries, apart from the UK and Ireland everyone, natives included, have to register with their local town hall or equivalent. That's all the proof you need that you've been resident for that period, not having to produce reams and reams of bank statements and letters like you do here.

Both Ireland and the UK have rejected a national ID card that is common in European countries that would facilitate such registration.

splinter65

Alun wrote: »

Me too. In most European countries, apart from the UK and Ireland everyone, natives included, have to register with their local town hall or equivalent. That's all the proof you need that you've been resident for that period, not having to produce reams and reams of bank statements and letters like you do here.

Having dealt with the citizenship section for 15 years it is the one Dept where I can put my hand on my heart and say that the whole approach from the top down is to put every possible bar in your way to being awarded citizenship.

Maewyn Succat

tonysopprano wrote: »

Really?.

20000 people per annum, immigrate into Ireland, without being a burden on social welfare or claiming any welfare or housing allowances, and then legally work and pay all taxes and social contributions and then become citizens?

Hey, if this is the way, why then do we have to pay more taxes every year, rather than less?

How many people retire, leave the work force or emigrate every year?

Alun

splinter65 wrote: »

Having dealt with the citizenship section for 15 years it is the one Dept where I can put my hand on my heart and say that the whole approach from the top down is to put every possible bar in your way to being awarded citizenship.

Yes, the whole process is unnecessarily long-winded and adversarial. Just reading through the form and the accompanying explanations makes you feel as if they're trying to catch you out and trip you up with warnings about not filling in the form correctly or not sending some vital piece of information rather than trying to help you.

lawred2

tonysopprano wrote: »

Who said anything about other countries?. Read the title

What are you hoping for here?

positron

tonysopprano wrote: »

Requirements:


he or she had been ordinarily resident in the island of Ireland for at least seven years;

Just being a resident will NOT qualify you for citizenship.

They use the term "reckonable residence". You need five years of "reckonable residence".

If you spend X many years here as a student, that does NOT count towards reckonable residence. Part-time working or not, it does not count.

Time spent waiting for asylum application to be considered / reviewed also does not count towards reckonable residence.

If you are here illegally somehow, that also doesn't help, obviously.

There's also garda vetting that you have to clear. Any bad marks, criminal record or even regular traffic offences will get pulled up and you will get rejected.

You also need multiple references - to show you know other Irish citizens, and they will vouch for you.

I think it's a more than fair system. Very expensive though, and asks for metric ton of paperwork as well.

The Swiss system where in certain cantons, locals having a say on each application - that sounds interesting. I wonder if the same locals have the power to reject or 'deport' bad apples, irrespective of their citizenship status. We could really use that system here..!

lawred2

My wife, from the UK, has paid about a quarter of a million in tax over the last 11 years or so where she's been resident here.

I think she'll have earned it when she inevitably applies.

splinter65

lawred2 wrote: »

My wife, from the UK, has paid about a quarter of a million in tax over the last 11 years or so where she's been resident here.

I think she'll have earned it when she inevitably applies.

Tip. She should apply on the grounds of residency not marriage to you.
If she applies on the marriage grounds then you both have to send all the proof of residency for 3 years whereas if she applies on residency it is just herself albeit for 5 years.

lawred2

splinter65 wrote: »

Tip. She should apply on the grounds of residency not marriage to you.
If she applies on the marriage grounds then you both have to send all the proof of residency for 3 years whereas if she applies on residency it is just herself albeit for 5 years.

She's entitled on her own merits

enricoh

splinter65 wrote: »

Not being reliant on SW is not a condition of citizenship.

Jesus, is this correct?
Makes sense for any immigrant spongers to get the citizenship sorted. The gravy train can last forever so!
Surely an exceptional needs payment can be acquired for the e1200 payment!

splinter65

lawred2 wrote: »

She's entitled on her own merits

Yes that’s what I mean. It appears easier to apply on the grounds of being married to an Irish citizen because you only have to show 3 years residency. But if you look closer she would have to show proof of three years for both of you.
If she goes for residency then she does have to show 5 years but only for herself.

splinter65

enricoh wrote: »

Jesus, is this correct?
Makes sense for any immigrant spongers to get the citizenship sorted. The gravy train can last forever so!
Surely an exceptional needs payment can be acquired for the e1200 payment!

You can’t get an exceptional needs payment for the 950 because it’s not an exceptional need. The rest of your post makes no sense, sorry.

mikemac2

Do they swear an oath and fealty to their last breath to Michael D ?

Alun

enricoh wrote: »

Jesus, is this correct?
Makes sense for any immigrant spongers to get the citizenship sorted. The gravy train can last forever so!

It's quite conceivable, for example, that someone could have been legally resident here for decades. Working, paying taxes, PRSI etc. and then for no fault of their own have been injured and no longer able to work, and thus claiming SW benefits before even getting to the stage of applying for naturalization. Hardly an "immigrant sponger".

alastair

Alun wrote: »

It's quite conceivable, for example, that someone could have been legally resident here for decades. Working, paying taxes, PRSI etc. and then for no fault of their own have been injured and no longer able to work, and thus claiming SW benefits before even getting to the stage of applying for naturalization. Hardly an "immigrant sponger".

And there’s no welfare bonus for citizens over legal habitual residents in any case. If you just want welfare support you’d be better off saving your €1200.

DelaneyIn

Pinch Flat wrote: »

You do realise other countries run similar citizenship programmes with similar criteria to us?

No western country has such lax policies for naturalisation as Ireland.

A meagre five years residence, no civics or language exams. Pay the fee, attend a soirée at the convention centre and you’re handed citizenship.

Time we stopped throwing out our nation’s citizenship like confetti at a wedding.

Odhinn

mikemac2 wrote: »

Do they swear an oath and fealty to their last breath to Michael D ?

...after a torch lit parade, they swear loyalty to Reichsfuhrer Mickey D, unto death.

alastair

DelaneyIn wrote: »

No western country has such lax policies for naturalisation as Ireland.

A meagre five years residence, no civics or language exams. Pay the fee, attend a soirée at the convention centre and you’re handed citizenship.

Time we stopped throwing out our nation’s citizenship like confetti at a wedding.

Portugal is handier. Five years residency, but that actually involves less time in the country than is required here (you can zip off for months as opposed to the six weeks allowable here). And it’s cheaper. No classes required, but there is a basic Portuguese proficiency test.