Why is there a lack of media coverage of the Redress:Breaking the Silence Documentary

Fritzbox

stockshares wrote: »

No, but I don't think people were prepared for how Conservative they would be and how in awe of the church they were.

Why wouldn't the people not be prepared and not be in "awe" of the church - was that not the case with the people for years before Independence?

One shower of Brutes was exchanged for another. It became one of the most backward countries in Europe and stayed that way until the late 80s.

Ireland was the most backward country in Europe along time before Independence - have you never heard of the Great Famine of Ireland?

SEPT 23 1989

We had two blank pages to change the lives of ordinary people in this countries history

1 when the British left

2 when the IMF arrived

And we fcuked both of them up because of home grown snouts in the trough vested interests

stockshares

Fritzbox wrote: »

Why wouldn't the people not be prepared and not be in "awe" of the church - was that not the case with the people for years before Independence?



Ireland was the most backward country in Europe along time before Independence - have you never heard of the Great Famine of Ireland?

What I meant was people were every bit as religious and deferential to the church as the Politicians were but they had no idea of the churches true power and nature until it was used on them.

I know it was backward before Independence but I meant it relative to the coming of Independence. All the Aspirations came to nothing and it became even more backward.

FrancieBrady

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

We had two blank pages to change the lives of ordinary people in this countries history

1 when the British left

2 when the IMF arrived

And we fcuked both of them up because of home grown snouts in the trough vested interests

3rd chance...break the duopoly.
Force FG/FF to merge or one of them to implode and have a proper right left political system.

Too much excess by one means the other gets in to balance things up.

PressRun

tdf7187 wrote: »

Michael Martin gets an easy ride from the media, given he was in the governments responsible for the financial crash and also this indemnity deal.

It's shocking.

This man wants to be the leader of this country and he has had a hand in so much corruption and all these cover ups, has been involved in heaping so much misery on so many. And the media are more interested in petty spats within FF than they are in questioning whether a man of Micheal Martin's character and record should be trusted with the levers of power in this country at all.

stockshares

FrancieBrady wrote: »

3rd chance...break the duopoly.
Force FG/FF to merge or one of them to implode and have a proper right left political system.

Too much excess by one means the other gets in to balance things up.

It looks like now we're going to be left with constantly alternating FF/FG and FG/FF governments.

Regardless of what they do both FF and FG will always have around 30%+ each of the votes.

Unless they totally make a balls of it this time and there's a complete economic collapse on their watch due to Brexit I can't see anything else.

Their 30% vote seems to be immune from Abuse Scandals, Financial, Health, Corruption Scandals and Criminal Scandals

Clarence Boddiker

PressRun wrote: »

the media are more interested in petty spats within FF than they are in questioning whether a man of Micheal Martin's character and record should be trusted with the levers of power in this country at all.

The Irish media are part of the establishment, cannot be trusted in any way shape or form. Its in their interest to keep Martin where he is and to fool the public into thinking theres some kind of difference between FF and FG. Their primary motivation is to uphold the duopoly no matter what.

FrancieBrady

PressRun wrote: »

It's shocking.

This man wants to be the leader of this country and he has had a hand in so much corruption and all these cover ups, has been involved in heaping so much misery on so many. And the media are more interested in petty spats within FF than they are in questioning whether a man of Micheal Martin's character and record should be trusted with the levers of power in this country at all.

I agree he's more dangerous than any other party leader and seems to have a thicker coat of teflon than Bertie had.

How he got through that interview with SoR without mention of his past and basically lecturing all and sundry is beyond me.

stockshares

It would be interesting to see what members of high society are members of Opus Dei and the Knights of Columbus not to mention the Zealots of the Iona Institute.

Clarence Boddiker

stockshares wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what members of high society are members of Opus Dei and the Knights of Columbus not to mention the Zealots of the Iona Institute.

Freemasons also, watch the likes of Coveny and Varadkar at photo ops with various dignitaries and you'll notice some interesting handshakes.

Hotblack Desiato

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I don't know how old you are but my recollection of growing up in the 80s and 90s was not that of being painfully backward at all. The older rural generation maybe but my own ordinary middle class milieu (which was a sizeable part of the population) was quite liberal.

Riiight

AIDS crisis but you still needed a prescription to buy condoms, which not all doctors would write and not all chemists would stock (some well into the 1990s in Dublin didn't stock them!)
Homosexuality illegal
Abortion illegal and we just passed a referendum to equate a grown woman with a fertilised egg.
No divorce
Liberal my hole.
Compared to most western nations, a good 20-30 years behind in social legislation and attitudes, even Spain and Portugal which had been run by catholic fascist dictators until the mid-70s were more liberal than us by the mid-80s

You have no perspective, did you have two channels on your TV growing up I wonder?

stockshares

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Freemasons also, watch the likes of Coveny and Varadkar at photo ops with various dignitaries and you'll notice some interesting handshakes.

I know nothing about them, any pics?

Hotblack Desiato

tylercheribini wrote: »

The Brits kept the Church in check up until then so yes,there was a vacuum for the Vatican to exert further post-colonial influence.

Ah here. You really need to read up on Irish history. Both the relaxation of the penal laws in the late 18th century and the British encouragement to the RCC to build what went on to become the largest seminary in the world were because they feared the republican/nationalist influence on priests going to France to be trained.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maynooth_Seminary

The building work was paid for by the British Government; parliament continued to give it an annual grant until the Irish Church Act 1869. When this law was passed the College received a capital sum of £369,000.

(According to the Bank of England inflation calculator, that's £44.2 million today.)

As far as they were concerned, the RCC was a useful ally to combat Irish nationalism, and so it proved right up until British defeat was inevitable and the RCC deftly switched sides.

stockshares wrote: »

One shower of Brutes was exchanged for another. It became one of the most backward countries in Europe and stayed that way until the late 80s.

Ireland on its independence in 1922 (with British laws still in force) was more liberal than it would be 50 years later.
Divorce - was legal, banned until 1996.
Contraception - was legal, banned completely until 1979, heavily restricted until 1989.
Women's right to work after marriage - banned, not restored until 1974.
Massive censorship of books, magazines and films which only started to gradually ease in the 1980s.
We were sold a pup, a strange sort of freedom where our society became both poorer and more repressive.

Clarence Boddiker

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Riiight

AIDS crisis but you still needed a prescription to buy condoms, which not all doctors would write and not all chemists would stock (some well into the 1990s in Dublin didn't stock them!)
Homosexuality illegal
Abortion illegal and we just passed a referendum to equate a grown woman with a fertilised egg.
No divorce
Liberal my hole.
Compared to most western nations, a good 20-30 years behind in social legislation and attitudes, even Spain and Portugal which had been run by catholic fascist dictators until the mid-70s were more liberal than us by the mid-80s

You have no perspective, did you have two channels on your TV growing up I wonder?

No we had all the channels, Irish and British, super channel which was the precursor to sky, then sky when it arrived. Don't know about the 80s but in the 90's condoms were freely available in the pharmacies of my small town, because I bought them myself. Two teachers in my school were openly gay, everyone knew, students and teachers alike and no one cared.

Thinking about now, I suppose I grew up with the wave of liberalisation, everything was moving forward so someone older than me might have a different recollection to those times.

tylercheribini

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Ah here. You really need to read up on Irish history. Both the relaxation of the penal laws in the late 18th century and the British encouragement to the RCC to build what went on to become the largest seminary in the world were because they feared the republican/nationalist influence on priests going to France to be trained.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maynooth_Seminary


As far as they were concerned, the RCC was a useful ally to combat Irish nationalism, and so it proved right up until British defeat was inevitable and the RCC deftly switched sides.




Ireland on its independence in 1922 (with British laws still in force) was more liberal than it would be 50 years later.
Divorce - was legal, banned until 1996.
Contraception - was legal, banned completely until 1979, heavily restricted until 1989.
Women's right to work after marriage - banned, not restored until 1974.
Massive censorship of books, magazines and films which only started to gradually ease in the 1980s.
We were sold a pup, a strange sort of freedom where our society became both poorer and more repressive.

I never said the church didnt have an influence under British rule but it seriously escalated and consolidated post-independence culminating in the Eucharistic congress of 1932 and DeValeras subsequent enshrining of the church's “ special position” in the 1937 consititution. Every government bill thought to be of interest to the Church, particularly regarding social matters, had to go before the Archbishop for his alterations and approval. If you want further, visceral and resounding proof of the utter dominance of the Vatican over this country google " de Valera kissing the ring of Rev. Dr. John Charles McQuaid Archbishop of Dublin." A picture truly speaks a thousand words in this instance. I dont recall any English statesman or monarch engaging in this groveling with his excellency during their rule here. Likening the relationship between Britain and the Catholic Church before independence and the 'free state' and the Church afterwards is a complete nonsense.

Hotblack Desiato

That's strange, you quoted my post but didn't address a single point within it.

As for the RCC becoming much more dominant here after independence, that's in the post you quoted, too - all of the things the RCC frowned upon which were legal in 1922 were banned within ten years.

DeV was a lickspittle but so was John A. "Catholic first, Irishman second" Costello, as I posted earlier, and Sean Mac Bride too who when I was growing up had a great reputation as a defender of freedom, but whose first act upon appointment as a minister was to send a grovelling telegram to the pope pledging his complete obedience - historians only discovered this after his death.

Fcukers the lot of them.

Xertz

The 80s were a lot more conservative and the 90s were hit and miss. Ireland was waking up but it was only starting to but it's been a fairly rapid succession of progressive moves since then as a lot of old taboos were broken.

However, we still have a situation where the church runs much more than 90% of schools and so on. We're still asking the Pope for permission to grant lands to a maternity hospital that we are all paying for and we've still got all sorts of random legacy issues and hang ups in various institutions.

stockshares

Xertz wrote: »

The 80s were a lot more conservative and the 90s were hit and miss. Ireland was waking up but it was only starting to but it's been a fairly rapid succession of progressive moves since then as a lot of old taboos were broken.

However, we still have a situation where the church runs much more than 90% of schools and so on. We're still asking the Pope for permission to grant lands to a maternity hospital that we are all paying for and we've still got all sorts of random legacy issues and hang ups in various institutions.

It says it all about this place that the church are still allowed run children's schools. No child should be let near them.

tylercheribini

Xertz wrote: »

The 80s were a lot more conservative and the 90s were hit and miss. Ireland was waking up but it was only starting to but it's been a fairly rapid succession of progressive moves since then as a lot of old taboos were broken.

However, we still have a situation where the church runs much more than 90% of schools and so on. We're still asking the Pope for permission to grant lands to a maternity hospital that we are all paying for and we've still got all sorts of random legacy issues and hang ups in various institutions.

No coincidence the Vatican sent his holiness here in 79 to reassert their influence as we then had one of the youngest populations in Europe. Judging by the throngs who came out to see him then I would hazard a guess the 80's didnt exactly become a whole lot more liberal in such a short space of time, 1984 in particular being a pretty dark year in terms of regressive social mores.

Raconteuse

splinter65 wrote: »

The RCC scandals have been done to death at this stage. A lot of young people know absolutely nothing about it and have no interest in it whatsoever.

How do you know they have no interest in it whatsoever?

And if a lot know absolutely nothing about it, then obviously it hasn't been done to death. And more awareness of it is needed among these young people.

Clarence Boddiker

Raconteuse wrote: »

How do you know they have no interest in it whatsoever?

And if a lot know absolutely nothing about it, then obviously it hasn't been done to death. And more awareness of it is needed among these young people.

I would say young people do know all about it, as its used to distract from the fact that their economic future is being stolen from them right now.

I'm never going to own a house...hey but what about the Catholic Church??
I'm a debt slave...hey but what about the Catholic Church??
Wages are stagnant, everything's prohibitively expensive...hey but what about the Catholic Church??
Ireland is becoming a hyper Capitalist neoliberal sh1thole...hey but remember how bad it was under the CATHOLIC CHURCH??

Raconteuse

Who's "using" it that way? Strange way of reading into it.

It's something that happened in Ireland's recent history - many affected are still alive and it affects their families too. And it shouldn't be forgotten about. That's it! All there is to it.

I'm not one for going on and on about the Catholic church either and I don't hate all priests etc but institutional sexual and physical abuse (some of it was done by non religious staff too) should never be forgotten.

Hotblack Desiato

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I would say young people do know all about it, as its used to distract from the fact that their economic future is being stolen from them right now.

I'm never going to own a house...hey but what about the Catholic Church??
I'm a debt slave...hey but what about the Catholic Church??
Wages are stagnant, everything's prohibitively expensive...hey but what about the Catholic Church??
Ireland is becoming a hyper Capitalist neoliberal sh1thole...hey but remember how bad it was under the CATHOLIC CHURCH??

Bullshit.