China. A (not) great bunch of lads.

BanditLuke

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Luke is the new Vibes

?

mikhail

BanditLuke wrote: »

Possibly an option but this thread is about China. Last time i checked the US haven't got markets that sell dog, bat, rat meat etc...

Never heard of anyone eating rat meat. Well, except Genghis Khan, in his youth.

China has recently banned all markets for wild animal meat, which were regional oddities anyway. I've discussed this whole thing with a number of Chinese people who expressed much the same disgust at the idea of eating bat soup as anyone from this part of the world might.

BanditLuke

BanditLuke wrote: »

Possibly an option but this thread is about China. Last time i checked the US haven't got markets that sell dog, bat, rat meat etc...

The US also doesn't have tens of millions well below the poverty line. In many cases, the sale of such meat is for the very poor who can't afford the higher costs associated with mainstream meats/foods. The cost of living, especially in the cities, has risen dramatically over the last decade. There's a lot made about them "uplifting" people out of poverty, but it's mostly a PR campaign. There's far more who were never lifted out of poverty, or those who were lifted out but have since slid back into it.

I'm not seeking to defend the practice of eating such meats, nor am I defending China for doing so. Hygiene standards in China are seriously revolting in many areas, and there is a resistance by many traditional Chinese to becoming more healthy/safe in the preparation and storing of food. Never mind, the habits of coughing up and spitting just about everywhere.

I do think it's slightly unfair to single out China for their eating habits regarding these kinds of animals though. I've never heard of people complaining about Africans eating Bat or rodents, which they do. Same with snake in many other countries such as India. The point is that if we're going to push to for such meats not to be eaten, it should be applied to everywhere so that a general repugnance is formed about it.

The Chinese government has issued laws against the sale and eating of many exotic animals or dangerous food sources, such as bats... but China is incredibly corrupt. Many people from high to low will simply ignore the laws believing them safe from prosecution, either because of ignorance, or the use of bribes. So, there needs to be more done to reduce the risk.. and that means changing peoples minds/perception on the subject.. which is already happening, to an extent, due to the Virus, and online chats by Chinese people.

But singling out China is not going to work. Chinese people are extremely defensive to the point of being retarded about it. Making them lose face over such a thing will simply put them in a corner, and they'll refuse to change. Think of them as a small child... Being forceful will just make them sulk, and act out regardless of logic. A more diplomatic/patient approach is required, rather than demands and accusations. Especially when they can point to such practices happening in other parts of the world. Which they can. The logical objection of pointing out all the diseases originating out of China won't work...

jimgoose

mikhail wrote: »

Never heard of anyone eating rat meat...

Rat, bat, dog or possum, it matters not one whit the type of meat, but the manner in which it is produced and processed. If our good ol' rashers were produced in the same way as a lot of that Chinese flea-market stuff a lot of people would shit themselves thin very fast, courtesy of E. Coli, and not to mention all manner of hitherto unheard-of virii. :pac:

Bobblehats

We should shut down our borders to those of whom there’s too many. If they’re a detriment to themselves I can’t imagine we’d last too long in their wake

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

One good thing that hopefully comes outa this virus mess is the banning and closure of wild food markets.

I'm skeptical TBH. Entirely depends on how forceful the Ch government decides to be. The amount of corruption/money involved in this industry is staggering... Oh, they'll make laws, they'll enforce them (somewhat), single out some choice examples for public justice, but it'll continue underground.

A change in their general farming practices would be a bonus.

That's not going to happen, and it will just get worse, because they're having to satisfy a growing appetite for after-famine mentality eating habits. Gorging themselves, and they have lovely role models when watching Americans getting more and more obese.

killbillvol2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The US also doesn't have tens of millions well below the poverty line. In many cases, the sale of such meat is for the very poor who can't afford the higher costs associated with mainstream meats/foods. The cost of living, especially in the cities, has risen dramatically over the last decade. There's a lot made about them "uplifting" people out of poverty, but it's mostly a PR campaign. There's far more who were never lifted out of poverty, or those who were lifted out but have since slid back into it.

I'm not seeking to defend the practice of eating such meats, nor am I defending China for doing so. Hygiene standards in China are seriously revolting in many areas, and there is a resistance by many traditional Chinese to becoming more healthy/safe in the preparation and storing of food. Never mind, the habits of coughing up and spitting just about everywhere.

I do think it's slightly unfair to single out China for their eating habits regarding these kinds of animals though. I've never heard of people complaining about Africans eating Bat or rodents, which they do. Same with snake in many other countries such as India. The point is that if we're going to push to for such meats not to be eaten, it should be applied to everywhere so that a general repugnance is formed about it.

The Chinese government has issued laws against the sale and eating of many exotic animals or dangerous food sources, such as bats... but China is incredibly corrupt. Many people from high to low will simply ignore the laws believing them safe from prosecution, either because of ignorance, or the use of bribes. So, there needs to be more done to reduce the risk.. and that means changing peoples minds/perception on the subject.. which is already happening, to an extent, due to the Virus, and online chats by Chinese people.

But singling out China is not going to work. Chinese people are extremely defensive to the point of being retarded about it. Making them lose face over such a thing will simply put them in a corner, and they'll refuse to change. Think of them as a small child... Being forceful will just make them sulk, and act out regardless of logic. A more diplomatic/patient approach is required, rather than demands and accusations. Especially when they can point to such practices happening in other parts of the world. Which they can. The logical objection of pointing out all the diseases originating out of China won't work...

Ah here. You can't be coming on here posting sense.

killbillvol2

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Ah here. You can't be coming on here posting sense.

It's fine.. those who want to rant will simply filter out or reinterpret what I said to suit themselves.

the purple tin

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd also rip evil bastards like Monsanto to shreds.

And those scummy f*ckers DuPont as well. There's a film out atm based on their exploits called Dark Waters, highly recommend it.

Cordell

mikhail wrote: »

Never heard of anyone eating rat meat

They eat every animal that walks under the Sun.
And the ones that don't too.

Deebles McBeebles

For info, it wasn't started because someone ate a bat.

The new COVID-19 is caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2. The most likely ecological reservoirs for SARS-CoV-2 are bats, but it is believed that the virus jumped the species barrier to humans from another intermediate animal host. This intermediate animal host could be a domestic food animal, a wild animal, or a domesticated wild animal which has not yet been identified.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200221-sitrep-32-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=4802d089_2

Cordell

Eating the meat was not the cause, you're right here. Handling all kind of animals for the purpose of eating them (or any other purpose, but probably eating) is likely the cause.

Ipso

Cordell wrote: »

Eating the meat was not the cause, you're right here. Handling all kind of animals for the purpose of eating them (or any other purpose, but probably eating) is likely the cause.

And possibly for the use in their bull sh1t medical cures. The pangolin is a good candidate for the source and it is trafficked for its scales.

Feisar

Ipso wrote: »

And possibly for the use in their bull sh1t medical cures. The pangolin is a good candidate for the source and it is trafficked for its scales.

We take the pistachios our of their witch doctor medicine however loads of spud pickers still believe in various cures and seventh son nonsense.

Ipso

Feisar wrote: »

We take the pistachios our of their witch doctor medicine however loads of spud pickers still believe in various cures and seventh son nonsense.

Back in the day I went to see an auld fella to cure my sprained ankle, he had d'cure (someone else had one for nosebleeds). Don't hear too much about it now.
To be fair to the auld fellas, they didn't bring Tigers to the brink of extinction so someone with a case of MMTS (more money than sence) could eat their langer in soup.

Feisar

Ipso wrote: »

Back in the day I went to see an auld fella to cure my sprained ankle, he had d'cure (someone else had one for nosebleeds). Don't hear too much about it now.
To be fair to the auld fellas, they didn't bring Tigers to the brink of extinction so someone with a case of MMTS (more money than sence) could eat their langer in soup.

For shame, I got the cure for a back issue

Edit - it didn't involve langers!

Rufeo

Ipso wrote: »

Back in the day I went to see an auld fella to cure my sprained ankle, he had d'cure (someone else had one for nosebleeds). Don't hear too much about it now.
To be fair to the auld fellas, they didn't bring Tigers to the brink of extinction so someone with a case of MMTS (more money than sence) could eat their langer in soup.

Man i thought that there was something off about that sausage soup that I had the other day.

BorneTobyWilde

Their practices have costs a lot of lives, and many countries millions upon millions of dollars. They are liable and should be forking out compensation.

ILoveYourVibes

All dictatorships are terrible in this regard. It's why Iran is struggling too.

It's interesting.

I know a lot of people from mainland china now living here. And from Hongkong. Generally speaking people from the mainland living here and from Hongkong here and still in hong kong think that most Mainlanders are living in a bubble and fully signed up faithfully to the chinese leadership.

What is interesting is that the coronavirus has shown that's not true. Actually chinese people when speaking frankly on youtube seem to know their govt lies to them.....they know that the Drs who were at first arrested for 'SPREADING RUMOURS' (A serious charge in china) were being honest and the govt wasn't.

The corona virus has not only damaged the chinese govt. But its shown other chinese people who are suspicious of the govt that they are not alone.

There was always this facade in China put about that all Chinese people fully trusted their govt etc. I think that's put about by the govt themselves.

ILoveYourVibes

Cordell wrote: »

Eating the meat was not the cause, you're right here. Handling all kind of animals for the purpose of eating them (or any other purpose, but probably eating) is likely the cause.

This.

We also need to be careful that it doesn't turn into bigotry.

People have different eating habits the world over. Its like chinese people hate to have people walk in shoes in their house its dirty. Etc We have to be sensitive.

Titclamp

BanditLuke wrote: »

The Covid19 event has and will continue to have a massive effect on our world for months/years to come. If one positive comes out of it it's that it has shone the spotlight on China and some of the disgusting practices that nation is partaking in and will continue to partake in unless they are called out on it by the international community and we stand together to stop it.

Yeah the guy in the following clip has an agenda against China but a lot of what he say's is true in particular there pillaging of africa and it's resources for their own good. Iv'e found the media to be missing in action in regards calling out Xi Jinping for what's happening in his country whilst at the same time spending ludicrous amounts of time focusing on the American president (himself no angel).

This post isn't meant as an attack on the people of China but rather it's leadership and the direction it is taking as regards the destruction of the planet. We need to do better at addressing the issue for the good of us all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msrqE87yTRs

Most of your stuff in your gaff is made in China.

You're a facilitator just like is all.

ILoveYourVibes

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Their practices have costs a lot of lives, and many countries millions upon millions of dollars. They are liable and should be forking out compensation.

That's silly.

ILoveYourVibes

Titclamp wrote: »

Most of your stuff in your gaff is made in China.

You're a facilitator just like is all.

Honestly though .....boycotting them right now would destroy their economy. I think it would hurt the wrong people.

Honestly OP Asian people are facing a lot of racism right now. You could maybe change the title.

Ipso

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This.

We also need to be careful that it doesn't turn into bigotry.

People have different eating habits the world over. Its like chinese people hate to have people walk in shoes in their house its dirty. Etc We have to be sensitive.

Not if there are massive health implications for people inside and outside.

Mad_maxx

many serious diseases have their origin in the consumption of animals which are off limits

HIV originated from west african tribes eating bush meat , the same chimps that had eaten other monkeys

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Honestly though .....boycotting them right now would destroy their economy. I think it would hurt the wrong people.

Boycotting wouldn't happen in the numbers needed to destroy their economy, or really hurt their economy. The truth is that, for the most part, people are selfish bastards. They might go online and rant about injustice but they'll still buy whatever they want/need without considering where it comes from.

Anyway, it would be easy enough for companies to sell and rebrand their products... while it would be produced in China, many purchasers would think it was made elsewhere. That already happens as it is.

Ipso wrote: »

Not if there are massive health implications for people inside and outside.

The double standards are easy to point out though. You'll complain about China because of it's links to the Virus, and the environmental concerns raised online... but you won't do the same for a dozen other countries who do similar, although on a smaller scale.

Wet markets are a fairly common sight across Asia, and Africa. It's not something exclusive to China.. and such markets have been known for decades to be a breeding ground for disease.

https://www.brandsouthafrica.com/investments-immigration/africa-gateway/informal-traders-28115

"“Our work across eight countries found that we are right to be concerned about food safety in informal markets – from milk in Mali, to fish in Ghana, to chicken in Mozambique, to beef in Kenya – particularly for spreading gastrointestinal diseases that are a leading cause of sickness and death in developing countries,” said Delia Grace, the programme leader for food safety and zoonoses at ILRI.

“But it also shows that we are wrong to think that we can just adopt solutions developed in wealthy countries that favour large commercial operations over small producers. That will just exacerbate hunger and further limit money-earning options for the poor.”

In most developing countries, more than 80% of livestock product purchases occur at informal markets and in places where there is no formal alternative such as a western-style supermarket close at hand. And the studies find that this is unlikely to change for decades to come.

Importantly, the studies in east and southern Africa have found that where supermarkets are an option, because of a poorly patrolled chain of custody between producer and seller, milk and meat sold in supermarkets may pose a greater health threat than what is sold in traditional markets."

Wibbs

Titclamp wrote: »

Most of your stuff in your gaff is made in China.

You're a facilitator just like is all.

Not so much in my case TBH. MacBook and Iphone would be about it, So American and Chinese. Other than that I can't offhand think of anything else made in China. Or America for that matter*. I try to buy as local as I can, Ireland and then Europe. To be fair I'd not be much of a gadget buyer so there's that and any household/car tools and items I try to source within the EU. I'm quite prepared to pay some premium to do so.





*the only made in America item I own is an old fly fishing reel. Nowadays I think they're made in China too.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

many serious diseases have their origin in the consumption of animals which are off limits

HIV originated from west african tribes eating bush meat , the same chimps that had eaten other monkeys

And many serious diseases have their origins in the consumption of "normal" animals. It's not necessarily the risk of eating an exotic or weird food sources. It's also to do with the butchering of the meat, along with lack of hygiene, and the storing of blood/internal organs near the cut up meat.

You should take a look at some vids of wet markets to see the lack of hygiene, and how most parts of the animal including it's blood is to be used.. and for it to be used, it's stored somewhere... usually in ways, which are a breeding ground for disease.

beejee

The better China does, the worse Europe does overall.

China will not willingly lose power and influence. So, fair play to the corona lads, if people don't have the stomach to kick China in the bullocks, then nature will. I hope it up-ends the robbing bastids

_Brian

BanditLuke wrote: »

The Covid19 event has and will continue to have a massive effect on our world for months/years to come. If one positive comes out of it it's that it has shone the spotlight on China and some of the disgusting practices that nation is partaking in and will continue to partake in unless they are called out on it by the international community and we stand together to stop it.

Yeah the guy in the following clip has an agenda against China but a lot of what he say's is true in particular there pillaging of africa and it's resources for their own good. Iv'e found the media to be missing in action in regards calling out Xi Jinping for what's happening in his country whilst at the same time spending ludicrous amounts of time focusing on the American president (himself no angel).

This post isn't meant as an attack on the people of China but rather it's leadership and the direction it is taking as regards the destruction of the planet. We need to do better at addressing the issue for the good of us all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msrqE87yTRs

Eating animals isn’t a disgusting practice, they just eat a different range than we do, that’s just a cultural difference, many people find it disturbing that they eat snails, frogs and horse in France, but again that’s just cultural difference.

There will be no change while it’s an oppressive communist party in control, and there is no breaking their tight grip on the country.

Yes Covid19 is bad, but 100 people have died this season in Ireland from coronavirus and nobody is outraged, that’s a typical death toll here from coronavirus.

BanditLuke

Titclamp wrote: »

Most of your stuff in your gaff is made in China.

You're a facilitator just like is all.

100%. I'm willing to change though and I'm going to.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

And many serious diseases have their origins in the consumption of "normal" animals. It's not necessarily the risk of eating an exotic or weird food sources. It's also to do with the butchering of the meat, along with lack of hygiene, and the storing of blood/internal organs near the cut up meat.

You should take a look at some vids of wet markets to see the lack of hygiene, and how most parts of the animal including it's blood is to be used.. and for it to be used, it's stored somewhere... usually in ways, which are a breeding ground for disease.

True it makes no sense to eat carnivores though. Most vit D in plants we can't absorb whereas cows can get it from sun cured forage. You then eat the cow or drink the milk and get the vit d.

Things accumulate both bad and good. Shrimp absorb mercury as they eat ..fish absorb mercury as they eat shrimp. Thus a lot of boney fish contain mercury just as cows contain Vit D.

Carnivores are species that usually have a greater impact on the environment if you eat them. Eat too many tuna the shrimp population might explode ..eat wolves the deer population explodes etc etc. Then the deer eat all the trees etc..birds can't nest etc.

Carnivores in general AVOID eating carnivores. Even if its dead and presented to them.

Its called trophic level. A lion can get nutrition from a herbivore that the lion can't get from a fellow lion. The lion can use the herbivores diet in a way.

Its rare for carnivores to kill or eat other carnivores its usually an act of dominance.

And it does allow them to be exposed to pathogens that are dangerous.

Some carnivores that DO eat other carnivores are leopard seals secretary birds etc.

Its MORE dangerous for humans to do this though ....as most carnivores can eat meat raw ...as their stomachs can kill all the basteria and a lot of pathogens.

Even if you cook meat that is bad for a human or has parasites or pathogens it can be dangerous. Its why we need to monitor our food chain a lot more.

_Brian

Plus developing countries have diseases, that’s just life.

When we were at the same development stage as general Chinese population we were riddled with TB for example from damp small squalid living conditions and poor hygiene. Every single family had dead kids from mumps, measles, scarlet fever and god knows what.

People going onto YouTube or boards hurling abuse at conditions and practices in third world countries need to get a life, seriously. These people need help and support not abuse and scorn.

beejee

_Brian wrote: »

Plus developing countries have diseases, that’s just life.

When we were at the same development stage as general Chinese population we were riddled with TB for example from damp small squalid living conditions and poor hygiene. Every single family had dead kids from mumps, measles, scarlet fever and god knows what.

People going onto YouTube or boards hurling abuse at conditions and practices in third world countries need to get a life, seriously. These people need help and support not abuse and scorn.

And now a geansai load of other countries have the disease too.

If this virus takes hold and becomes an annual killer, is that acceptable?

What about Chinas next disease gift to the world? And the next? And the one after that?

Whatever shape or form it takes, that area is going to get a hard slap soon.

IAMAMORON

BanditLuke wrote: »

100%. I'm willing to change though and I'm going to.

Op what was your previous username?

I think you post a lot of borderline fascist sentiment. You seem to be in the middle of everything. I don't think you really care about China, the Chinese or what they eat? Yesterday the HSE were your enemy, and it is worth adding anyone who dared disagree with you.

Get out much?

As regards your vitriolic and frenzied interpretation of the Covid virus indicates, I think you typify the type of poster who consumes themselves quite willingly in the chaos, it is all about the row really isn't it? You need something to say " I am right and you are wrong" about. Nothing like an unknown newborn potentially lethal virus, it really is an excellent opportunity for you to post something tainted about a foreign culture or a countries' health authority?

_Brian

beejee wrote: »

And now a geansai load of other countries have the disease too.

If this virus takes hold and becomes an annual killer, is that acceptable?

What about Chinas next disease gift to the world? And the next? And the one after that?

Whatever shape or form it takes, that area is going to get a hard slap soon.

Diseases have been around for a long time, it’s part of life.
Europeans killed millions of native Americans when they conquered America.

There have been other flu pandemics, there will be more.

beejee

_Brian wrote: »

Diseases have been around for a long time, it’s part of life.
Europeans killed millions of native Americans when they conquered America.

There have been other flu pandemics, there will be more.

Yeah but how many countries have been the source of global epidemics?

And, you know, within the last 200 bleeding years?

Funny how these acceptable epidemics have a very common denominator, don't you think? What are the odds...

sameoldname

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Get out much?

The OP has been registered on this site for 23 days and has over a thousand posts. That's 1.84 posts an hour assuming they don't sleep or 2.76 posts an hour assuming they sleep for 8 hours a day. Adding time on for actually having to read what they are replying to, I can hazard a guess as to the answer of your question.

ILoveYourVibes

sameoldname wrote: »

The OP has been registered on this site for 23 days and has over a thousand posts. That's 1.84 posts an hour assuming they don't sleep or 2.76 posts an hour assuming they sleep for 8 hours a day. Adding time on for actually having to read what they are replying to, I can hazard a guess as to the answer of your question.

Don't judge.

IAMAMORON

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Don't judge.

Rich words all things considered?

ILoveYourVibes

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Rich words all things considered?

People who post most are just quick thinkers :P

IAMAMORON

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

People who post most are just quick thinkers :P

It is the shallowest vessels which make the most noise.

ILoveYourVibes

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is the shallowest vessels which make the most noise.

I feel very attacked right now.


This may be true. But they float better.

IAMAMORON

I find it intriguing that BenditLuke has 1020 posts in 1 month and you have almost 9000 in 9 months.

It is uncanny that you have the same prolificity of posts... remarkable.

BanditLuke

_Brian wrote: »

Diseases have been around for a long time, it’s part of life.
Europeans killed millions of native Americans when they conquered America.

There have been other flu pandemics, there will be more.

That doesn't make it right though, you'd agree or not?

BanditLuke

Cordell wrote: »

They eat every animal that walks under the Sun.
And the ones that don't too.

I wasn't even aware of some of their practices until recently tbh.

_Brian

BanditLuke wrote: »

That doesn't make it right though, you'd agree or not?

There’s no right or wrong though.
These things develop and spread.

It wasn’t the Chinese that sent all the Irish TY students to Italy to bring it back here.

It’s something we have to accept if people want to have the global free travelling lifestyle and trade that we currently have.

Honestly, if people had proper respect for the regular flu strains and had proper hygiene appropriate to those them this wouldn’t have spread so much. We’re at a stage where we’re accepting probably half a million people a year dead from flu effects each year, that’s not the fault of third world countries either.

This is a society failure, we have become complacent regarding coronavirus strains.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

And now a geansai load of other countries have the disease too.

If this virus takes hold and becomes an annual killer, is that acceptable?

What about Chinas next disease gift to the world? And the next? And the one after that?

Whatever shape or form it takes, that area is going to get a hard slap soon.

I see. Did you complain about AIDS? After all, that's been with us longer, and has killed far more people... and it didn't originate in China, or only from Chinese practices. Or perhaps go nuts over the sharp rise in Allergies, which probably will kill more people than this virus...

Fact is, we're vulnerable to disease, even more so, due to the way our lives have evolved through medicine, our eating habits, and general lifestyles.

I find it interesting that people are willing to rant about China with regards to this virus, but haven't cared much about other crap that's been going on for decades, and have already killed many more than this virus.

Honestly, a lot of this outrage seems more like a fashion statement than any real interest or involvement.

_Brian

beejee wrote: »

Yeah but how many countries have been the source of global epidemics?

And, you know, within the last 200 bleeding years?

Funny how these acceptable epidemics have a very common denominator, don't you think? What are the odds...

Bad things develop in third world countries because they lack the amenities, expenditure, education and basic hygiene standards we are lucky to have here.

We have our own issues, look at superbugs happening here through poor antibiotics usage, that is actually a much bigger population health threat here. But yea, let’s beat down on poor nations because they eat differently and the majority of their population live a 1940’s standard of lifestyle compared to the west.

Church on Tuesday

You're on this a month and have over a 1000 posts?

Impressive.