Prospective landlords asking for too much information

K.O.Kiki

https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/what-information-can-a-landlord-request-from-me/
https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-07/190710%20Requesting%20Personal%20Data%20from%20Prospective%20Tenants.pdf
https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/news-media/podcasts/know-your-data-requesting-personal-data-prospective-tenants-1

From what I understand, as per GDPR & GDC we are being asked too much from "prospective" landlords, namely:

PPS number
Copy of ID
Payslips / bank statements

(I'm happy to provide landlord/work references)

I'm paranoid that eventually I'll come across a scumbag who's in it to use my info & do something like open an account in my name.

Dav010

There is nothing to prevent you refusing to provide the requested information.

punisher5112

It's the way it's gone, anyone willing to let out a property that is worth a lot of money wants to protect themselves as much as possible.

Some want more then you were asked.

Mic 1972

Payslip an Bank Statement should be a must check, I would also check Linkedin profile to see work stability

TheBoyConor

They are entitled to ask. You are not obliged to provide. Nor are they obliged to lease the property to you.

Graham

The Data Protection Commission guidance is fairly unambiguous:

It will be difficult for a controller to justify, by reference to the principle of data minimisation, the extensive collection of personal data such as financial statements, utility bills, references, PPSNs, etc., from numerous, or all, interested parties at the initial stages of advertising or hosting viewings of a property. This is because such information will generally not be necessary at the early stages of the leasing process, where interested persons may simply be looking to view a property or make enquiries in relation to it. In most cases such information will not be necessary until such time as a landlord decides upon a preferred tenant and makes an offer to a prospective tenant

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

The Data Protection Commission guidance is fairly unambiguous:

And if the LL justifies the using of that criteria to decide on a preferred tenant? I think checking that a potential tenant can afford to pay for the property is important, if they commence tenancy and then claim they don’t have the means to pay, eviction can be protracted and expensive.

Personally, I would respect anyone’s right to not provide that information, I expect that they will respect my decision not to pick them as a preferred tenant.

Browney7

Dav010 wrote: »

And if the LL is using that criteria to decide on a preferred tenant?

Then provided they have the relevent policies in place they can ask for it.

LLs shouldn't be asking in advance of conducting viewings for all this information to be provided. Just because a landlord has agreed to show a place to a tenant doesn't mean they have to offer it to them. There is nothing to stop a would be Identity thief putting a fraudulent ad up looking for personal info under the guise of renting a property and seeing what information comes back.

The cynic would also think it's to protect LLs from inadvertently offering to rent the property to a HAP tenant who ticks all other boxes - LL "I'd like to rent my property to you John Doe subject to satisfactory references". JD "no problem, here's my ten landlord references and work reference and HAP eligibility confirmation which illustrates ability to pay"

Baby01032012

If it is for purposes of the renting of the apartment and thus in course of their business there is no Gdpr issue.

Pps is required for rtb reg. bank statements and payslips are a way to prove tenant has sufficient income to be able to meet the rental payments.

As before you have right not to give and potential landlord has right not to rent the apartment to you.

Gael23

Your PPS and ID are required by PRTB

K.O.Kiki

Baby01032012 wrote: »

If it is for purposes of the renting of the apartment and thus in course of their business there is no Gdpr issue.

Pps is required for rtb reg. bank statements and payslips are a way to prove tenant has sufficient income to be able to meet the rental payments.

As before you have right not to give and potential landlord has right not to rent the apartment to you.

That's why I'm willing to give a landlord reference (stating I've paid on-time for 5 years) and work reference (stating I am in full employment).

Gael23 wrote: »

Your PPS and ID are required by PRTB

Yes, it's required for tenancy registration, and I'm willing to give it ONCE I'm signing a contract!
Not before, as I have no idea what they're doing with my data, how they're storing it or when they will destroy it.

Dav010

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

That's why I'm willing to give a landlord reference (stating I've paid on-time for 5 years) and work reference (stating I am in full employment).


Yes, it's required for tenancy registration, and I'm willing to give it ONCE I'm signing a contract!
Not before, as I have no idea what they're doing with my data, how they're storing it or when they will destroy it.

Put simply, the LL has no obligation to consider you as a tenant, so if you don’t want to provide the requested info, don’t, move on to the next property.

Graham

Dav010 wrote: »

And if the LL justifies the using of that criteria to decide on a preferred tenant?

This is the relevant part

It will be difficult for a controller to justify, by reference to the principle of data minimisation, the extensive collection of personal data such as financial statements, utility bills, references, PPSNs, etc., from numerous, or all, interested parties at the initial stages of advertising or hosting viewings of a property.

You should take your own legal advice and/or have a discussion with the DPC to find out if you're a special case not subject to the usual guidance.


Source: Data Protection Commission Requesting Personal Data from Prospective Tenants

Feel free to link to sources that state otherwise.

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

This is the relevant part



You should take your own legal advice and/or have a discussion with the DPC to find out if you're a special case not subject to the usual guidance.


Source: Data Protection Commission Requesting Personal Data from Prospective Tenants

Feel free to link to sources that state otherwise.

It’s guidance only.

ELM327

They are as entitled to ask as you are to say no.

Graham

Dav010 wrote: »

It’s guidance only.

From the horses mouth as it were.

In the absence of a dissenting qualified opinion, I'd take the guidance.

OP, in you feel a prospective landlord/letting-agency are over-reaching then lodge a complaint with the DPC.

What usually follows is a reminder to the individual organisations involved at which point the majority will 'adjust' their requests.

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

From the horses mouth as it were.

In the absence of a dissenting qualified opinion, I'd take the guidance.

OP, in you feel a prospective landlord/letting-agency are over-reaching then lodge a complaint with the DPC.

What usually follows is a reminder to the individual organisations involved at which point the majority will 'adjust' their requests.

On reading the link you quoted, I am now better informed, you are right.

But, the op’s chances of renting that property are zero. It may well be a hollow victory and many applicants will not be put off by the request if it means they stand a better chance of being the preferred tenant. That is the reality of the situation, the EA/LL can put their justification to the horse and see how it pans out.

Graham

I've no doubt you're right but if enough people make complaints to the DPC mindsets and actions will begin to change.

It's an easy enough process online: https://forms.dataprotection.ie/contact

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

I've no doubt you're right but if enough people make complaints to the DPC mindsets and actions will begin to change.

It's an easy enough process online: https://forms.dataprotection.ie/contact

I suspect prospective tenants are more concerned about securing a rental property than anything else. I would have thought illegal rent price increases would be more of an issue to tenants than this, but rents keep going up. Sometimes Graham, you have to accept that it isn’t black and white, renting is a beauty contest.

Graham

Unfortunately there will always be landlords (and tenants) who think the law doesn't apply to them and it will be largely down to tenants or prospective tenants to lodge the appropriate complaints.

I understand there are already cases where landlords and estate agents have adjusted their documentation requirements after advice from the DPC on the back of complaints from the renting public. So lodging a quick complaint/concern online does work (and costs nothing).

MacDanger

While these requests are an overreach by the LL, it's also reflective of the fact that overholding has become a problem and LLs are trying to protect themselves from this which is understandable IMO

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

Unfortunately there will always be landlords (and tenants) who think the law doesn't apply to them.

Is a guideline a law?

L1011

Dav010 wrote: »

Is a guideline a law?

Most guidelines are based on legislation in this area. Up to the priciest barristers in the land to argue about whose interpretation of the legislation is right in the end

_Brian

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/what-information-can-a-landlord-request-from-me/
https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-07/190710%20Requesting%20Personal%20Data%20from%20Prospective%20Tenants.pdf
https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/news-media/podcasts/know-your-data-requesting-personal-data-prospective-tenants-1

From what I understand, as per GDPR & GDC we are being asked too much from "prospective" landlords, namely:

PPS number
Copy of ID
Payslips / bank statements

(I'm happy to provide landlord/work references)

I'm paranoid that eventually I'll come across a scumbag who's in it to use my info & do something like open an account in my name.

It’s their house, remember that.
If your not comfortable doing that then don’t and move on to the next property and someone else will be glad to rent it.

Dav010

L1011 wrote: »

Most guidelines are based on legislation in this area. Up to the priciest barristers in the land to argue about whose interpretation of the legislation is right in the end

I appreciate that, but the guidelines seem to say that the LL has to justify the reason for the data, it is not legally prohibited. Is it legally prohibited in all instances?

Mr.S

Mr.S wrote: »

They are standard documents to ask for, I’d be more worried about landlords / estate agents not storing / deleting the data correctly vs something fraudulent.

Bank statements? Go away out of that.

Graham

Dav010 wrote: »

I appreciate that, but the guidelines seem to say that the LL has to justify the reason for the data, it is not legally prohibited. Is it legally prohibited in all instances?

Did you find a qualified opinion anywhere that suggests the guidelines are incorrect or can be safely considered as optional?

boege

What a prospective landlord/agent may request from you

When looking for private rented accommodation you may be asked to provide certain information to a prospective landlord or agent. Below is a list of items that prospective tenants may be asked to provide:

- PPS No. (this is required for the registration of the tenancy with the Residential Tenancies Board) (www.rtb.ie)
- A reference from your previous landlord
- A reference from your current employer
- Photo I.D. such as a driving licence or passport
- Evidence of residency
- Recent bank statements
- Payslips

The Data Protection Commissioner has recently raised concerns at the information requested pre-tenancy-click here for more on this and click here for a podcast on the issue

Under Data Protection legislation any information held should be adequate, relevant and not excessive for the purposes for which it has been obtained and held. Such information cannot be misused. You can get more information from the Data Protection Commissioners website here.

https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/what-information-can-a-landlord-request-from-me/

Graham

Which links right back to where we started:

Requesting Personal Data from Prospective Tenants

Dav010

Graham wrote: »

Did you find a qualified opinion anywhere that suggests the guidelines are incorrect or can be safely considered as optional?

Can you usually find such qualified opinions on Boards? I had assumed legal advice was against the charter. Maybe you can show that a LL cannot justify the request, is a guideline a qualified opinion? Maybe it is.

My limited understanding of the law from having attended many lectures relating to my own profession, is that guidelines are not necessarily laws, they are open to consideration and interpretation, for guidance only. The DC raised concerns, maybe he/she should have outright banned seeking this type of info, be it seems he/she didn’t.

runawaybishop

Graham wrote: »

Which links right back to where we started:

Requesting Personal Data from Prospective Tenants

May, likely, possible, if.

It's general guidance, it's not specific and shouldn't be blindly followed.

The bit you quoted initially talked about utility bills and other stuff you don't need for a tenancy, the op is asking specifically about required or easily justified information.

That said,the DP laws are being interpreted by lunatics so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a breech.