What went wrong with places like Ballymun, Jobstown, Darndale etc.

Dorakman

Was it government policy or something else?

BanditLuke

Drugs

Dorakman

BanditLuke wrote: »

Drugs

Surely not everyone is on drugs.

tayto lover

They built estates in those places.
They were grand when only fields.

CinemaGuy45

Dorakman wrote: »

Was it government policy or something else?

Many people in these areas working away and living the honest life.

Scumbags not evicted and now African gangs on top of that again.

I have only ever seen the inside of a Garda Station twice in my life bolt times it was getting a Garda stamp on my passport application form.

tdf7187

A lot of urban working class moved out of city centre in the 1960s and 1970s due to government policy.

But there is the old question - do pigs make sties or do sties make pigs?

https://theodoredalrymple.wordpress.com/2016/01/15/the-sties-pigs-dialectic/

https://books.google.ie/books?id=GR5vAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=theodore+dalrymple+do+pigs+make+sties&source=bl&ots=YPy1Bq05Cm&sig=ACfU3U08RkKZVLupQr4Rh37enIKlRKgLYg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicweXAif_nAhUgTxUIHcYaB7IQ6AEwA3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=theodore%20dalrymple%20do%20pigs%20make%20sties&f=false

piplip87

Putting a bunch of permanent jobseekers in large numbers into one area breeds crime. You get fellas growing up with a parent who does not work so cannot provide for them, then they see the local scumbags driving good cars, plenty of money etc so they decide to follow suit. Unfortunately some who try to follow will like drugs too much and will take instead of sell.

Now I am not bashing council estates, I am only bashing the small minority in these places who cause trouble.

If councils and TULSA did their jobs and identify scumbag parents quicker these areas would not have such chronic amounts of crime

ILoveYourVibes

A lot of things.

The tennants in oliver bond had to petition the local authority for ten yrs to get recycling facilities. That should tell you something.

The local authority agreed.

They still don't have it on the ground....they are still given huge open bins they attract rats. And if you put lids on the kids will take them. Because they hate the place or society and want to **** it up out of inner badly expressed anger.

Its a kip ..its depressing ..its cold in winter ...

Its full of damaged people. I mean it has nice people too. But ...

No one has any money. So no one is spending money. If you have money you leave.

Drugs drink drink drink. People not supporting drug addicts so they have to buy it illegally fueling gang wars.

Lack of education ....

Basically this is what wrong ...people stopped giving a ****.

NIMAN

Drugs
Personal responsibility
Lack of ambition to better yourself
Unemployment
etc etc

Dorakman

piplip87 wrote: »

Putting a bunch of permanent jobseekers in large numbers into one area breeds crime. You get fellas growing up with a parent who does not work so cannot provide for them, then they see the local scumbags driving good cars, plenty of money etc so they decide to follow suit. Unfortunately some who try to follow will like drugs too much and will take instead of sell.

Now I am not bashing council estates, I am only bashing the small minority in these places who cause trouble.

If councils and TULSA did their jobs and identify scumbag parents quicker these areas would not have such chronic amounts of crime

Would it bot make more sense to keep them isolated to one area though? For example build another estate and evict any troublemakers and give them a house there?

ILoveYourVibes

piplip87 wrote: »

If councils and TULSA did their jobs and identify scumbag parents quicker these areas would not have such chronic amounts of crime

State agencies are the worst abusers of children.

ILoveYourVibes

NIMAN wrote: »

Lack of ambition to better yourself

During the 70's 80s ....kids would be pulled out of school at 12 13 ...'EDUCATION IS TOO GOOD FOR YOU' 'YOU DREAMER' ..'GET A JOB'.

At 13.

And today there is still this attitude in the education system. Education is too good for some people.

Its designed for middle class kids to thrive in.

blueskys

These estates were a release valve from desperate conditions in inner city tenements. The planning aspect was extremely poor. There was a high percentage of unemployment in the 80s and 90s which disproportionately affected these areas.Drugs came in the 80s. I know I was there. Before 'drugs' kids were effectively self medicating with glue, thinners and petrol.When I look back all had traumatic background. Too many poor people in one area, not enough resources. Housing then got allocated due to ' need 'rather than having a decent track record in life. Drugs became big business when no one was watching. Its a sad state of affairs but before people start labelling ask yourself if you grew up in these estates with a dysfunctional background would you be any different...

ILoveYourVibes

I am kind of tired of people who don't know people who live there or have never lived there themselves talking about these places.

Unless you have family who live there or you have lived there what the heck do you know?

Maybe people should listen to the people who live there.

Dravokivich

Mass disenfranchisement right there across those commuinities. As much as I hate to liken'em to it, youd be hard pressed to distinguish'em from the proles of 1984.

Dorakman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am kind of tired of people who don't know people who live there or have never lived there themselves talking about these places.

Unless you have family who live there or you have lived there what the heck do you know?

Maybe people should listen to the people who live there.

My friend grew up in Darndale. He went to UCD, did Computer science, and has his own apartment, wife and child now. According to him, no amount of money in the world could convince him to live there again.

CinemaGuy45

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am kind of tired of people who don't know people who live there or have never lived there themselves talking about these places.

Unless you have family who live there or you have lived there what the heck do you know?

Maybe people should listen to the people who live there.

There are a lot of posh virtue signalling nasty people on boards.

A lot of these little post brats go to the US for the summer and wreak the accommodation.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

The council moved Dubs in and they went to pot after that.

bigroad

Not enough prison spaces.

James Brown

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

During the 70's 80s ....kids would be pulled out of school at 12 13 ...'EDUCATION IS TOO GOOD FOR YOU' 'YOU DREAMER' ..'GET A JOB'.

At 13.

And today there is still this attitude in the education system. Education is too good for some people.

Its designed for middle class kids to thrive in.

You are forgetting low income families wanting another wage coming in.

ILoveYourVibes

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

There are a lot of posh virtue signalling nasty people on boards.

A lot of these little post brats go to the US for the summer and wreak the accommodation.

:eek: bold brats..how do we control these rebels? Do they leave the bed unmade?

Posh kids couldn't trash a dump. Mummy trained them well.

Go to tallaght ..i will show you kids that will WRECK the place. Then 'kidnap' Joan Burton!

My friend grew up in Darndale. He went to UCD, did Computer science, and has his own apartment, wife and child now. According to him, no amount of money in the world could convince him to live there again.

yup.

ILoveYourVibes

Bowie wrote: »

You are forgetting low income families wanting another wage coming in.

yep.

Silentcorner

There was always a very inner city dynamic that most people don't get or understand.

A lot of Working Class neighbourhoods up to the 70s in particular had a very healthy dynamic of helping one another, helping your neighbour, such was the proximity of other families nobody could hide issues, it was perfectly normal for old women for instance to know every single young person on the surrounding streets, it created a police force if you will, if a young fella got up to mischief he could be handled by the community much more effectively, if you ever talk to someone who grew up in these area's they will articulate a great affection (more often then not) for their upbringing....if it takes a village to rear a child then the inner cities were perfect for raising a child so long as you can avoid deep poverty.

Making new towns (and it was the same in Cork/Limerick) severely damaged those dynamics, they were souless places where the population were left to try and recreate those dynamics, before that could be achieved, within the space of 10 years, they were fighting a battle with hard drugs that would go on to destroy them altogether supported by a well meaning but ultimately futile social welfare support system.

The Gardai and certainly The State does not and never will understand how those neighbourhood's were rich with an inter personal culture because they never came from area's like that themselves!

Dorakman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

:eek: bold brats..how do we control these rebels? Do they leave the bed unmade?

Posh kids couldn't trash a dump. Mummy trained them well.

Go to tallaght ..i will show you kids that will WRECK the place. Then 'kidnap' Joan Burton!



yup.

Super contribution.

James Brown

Dorakman wrote: »

Was it government policy or something else?

A number of factors. All low/no income. No/low amenities. Poor design. Then of course heroin. Poor policing.
Early school leavers taking up menial jobs.
In the eighties we'd drugs and a recession. These things hit poorer communities worse.
It would not be easy for any kid to try come up through that to 'better them self' as another poster suggests.

And when you go forward to the celtic tiger days, 'regeneration'. Move the majority from city estates to the arsehole of Tallaght and sell off the public land to private companies.

CinemaGuy45

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

:eek: bold brats..how do we control these rebels? Do they leave the bed unmade?

Posh kids couldn't trash a dump. Mummy trained them well.

Go to tallaght ..i will show you kids that will WRECK the place. Then 'kidnap' Joan Burton!



yup.

Loads more on Google I cannot be arsed to find them all but they are easy to find.

Police called after Irish students wreck Chicago home and turn it into “Animal House”
Police were called after a group of male Irish J-1 students allegedly wrecked a house in Chicago, smashing every window in the building.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/police-called-after-irish-students-wreck-chicago-home-and-turn-it-into-animal-house

ILoveYourVibes

Silentcorner wrote: »

There was always a very inner city dynamic that most people don't get or understand.

A lot of Working Class neighbourhoods up to the 70s in particular had a very healthy dynamic of helping one another, helping your neighbour, such was the proximity of other families nobody could hide issues, it was perfectly normal for old women for instance to know every single young person on the surrounding streets, it created a police force if you will, if a young fella got up to mischief he could be handled by the community much more effectively, if you ever talk to someone who grew up in these area's they will articulate a great affection (more often then not) for their upbringing....if it takes a village to rear a child then the inner cities were perfect for raising a child so long as you can avoid deep poverty.

True.

ILoveYourVibes

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Loads more on Google I cannot be arsed to find them all but they are easy to find.



https://www.irishcentral.com/news/police-called-after-irish-students-wreck-chicago-home-and-turn-it-into-animal-house

I don't think it says where they are from. Working class people are actually more likely to go get the J 1.

ILoveYourVibes

Dorakman wrote: »

Super contribution.

Its true.

Be sensible.

Which areas have more youth disturbances??

Tallaght ballymun etc or Blackrock??

How many teens shoot or stab people in blackrock?

Dorakman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its true.

Be sensible.

Which areas have more youth disturbances??

Tallaght ballymun etc or Blackrock??

Ever been to Tallaght at Halloween? It’s like Rise of the Valkyrie.

ILoveYourVibes

Dorakman wrote: »

Ever been to Tallaght at Halloween? It’s like Rise of the Valkyrie.

My cousins live there. Yes i have as a kid. I thought there was a some great battle on.

My mom and dad would leave me with them for the weekend if they went away. I am not gonna lie i sometimes got up to some stuff. (harmless)

Omg this wasn't in tallaght ..but one halloween ...kids were throwing lighted missiles ..so my dad went out with a club (like a base ball bat) and started hitting them right back at them like a mental ****er!