Should Ireland and the rest of Europe take in more migrants based in Turkey?

Sultan of Bling

MadYaker wrote:

You don’t think putting the body of a dead girl on the front page of a news paper would be slightly insensitive no? What about her parents ffs? Interesting insight into your mindset.

It hasn't stopped newspapers before.

They put a picture of a dead child on the front pages when a child drowned trying to cross the water into Greece.

Another picture of a dead child made the front pages when trying to enter the usa from Mexico.

As other posters said, as long as it fits an agenda.

dvdman1

dvdman1 wrote: »

The fact that these guys are men doesnt make any difference...most likely these were the ones strong enough to make the journey..whats the difference if its a woman or a man? If Ireland was in the middle east and it was torn apart by war you and me and the rest of the lads would be up at the greek border trying to get in.

Possibly. More likely though we would have been forcibly conscripted by one of the military groups or resistance cells. This is what I find so interesting about the recent conflicts. The sheer numbers of males getting away from the warzone. In just about any major conflict, either side will drag the innocent or unwilling in to fight for them.

As for why the difference matters, because it is suspicious. Women are typically protected "more" within any society, including during war (yes, we all know the dangers for them). So they would be more likely than the males to be able to pass to the border without being conscripted to fight, picked out as deserters or traitors, or shot as spies. And yet, the vast majority to escape are males... Males of the right age to be chosen to fight as soldiers....

So, it does matter because it's illogical based on most wars I've ever heard of. And it matters because young males in a group are more likely to turn to crime or violence when things don't work the way they want...

donaghs

dvdman1 wrote: »

Were paying for obamas inaction on the red line. The Syrian people are paying the most.....non intervention can sometimes be worse.

?

How many migrants are Syrian? The Syrian war is over, except for Turkey keeping the small Idlib front going.

If Obama had intervened the war would still be raging across a much bigger front.

suicide_circus

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

And apparently the EU has handed over another 500 mil to the dictator Erdogan, but that amount probably ranks as barely a pre-tribute, a taster maybe. This man had a 1000 room palace. 500 mil is chump change to him.

If Erdogan is going to continue using migrants as a tool to extort cash and concessions, it may be time to......build a wall.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

If Erdogan is going to continue using migrants as a tool to extort cash and concessions, it may be time to......build a wall.

There might be a real need for such in the future. Or something similar. It's worth considering just how many wars are currently happening in the world, and the sheer numbers of people displaced by those wars. And there's no research or projection to suggest that those numbers will decline. If anything those wars will spread to neighboring countries, further increasing the amount of refugees... and that's just about war.. there's also economic failures, civil/social problems, and disease/famines.

The point is that the numbers of refugees are only going to increase for a variety of reasons... And as the unrest spreads, there will be less countries taking in refugees, which means they'll be coming to Europe for aid..

cnbyz

If EU hadnt stupidly failed to uphold the migrant deal with Turkey then Erdogan wouldn't have had the opportunity to use migrants for ransom. AFAIK EU promised 6b but have so far only paid 2.7 and havent provided visa free travel for Turkish citizens or upgraded the customs union as promised.

cnbyz

suicide_circus wrote: »

If Erdogan is going to continue using migrants as a tool to extort cash and concessions, it may be time to......build a wall.

build a wall ? where exactly ? on the sea ?

cnbyz

Mind the Luas wrote: »

The Greeks actually have plans to build a sea wall.

impossible. check the map

4068ac1elhodqr

cnbyz wrote: »

impossible. check the map

It seems there is such a concept of a sea territory, and then there are things called boats, which can patrol such waters, crazy stuff, who even knew!

cnbyz

Mind the Luas wrote: »

It's more of a "sea barrier" than anything else 2.7km long.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/30/greece-plans-to-build-sea-barrier-off-lesbos-to-deter-migrants

yeah interesting read

Greece’s former migration minister, Dimitris Vitsas, described the barrier as a “stupid idea” that was bound to be ineffective. “The idea that a fence of this length is going to work is totally stupid,” he said. “It’s not going to stop anybody making the journey.”

cnbyz

cnbyz wrote: »

yeah interesting read

Greece’s former migration minister, Dimitris Vitsas, described the barrier as a “stupid idea” that was bound to be ineffective. “The idea that a fence of this length is going to work is totally stupid,” he said. “It’s not going to stop anybody making the journey.”

Nothing is going to stop them from making the journey... The idea is to prevent them easy access, which such a wall will likely do.

McGiver

donaghs wrote: »

?

How many migrants are Syrian? The Syrian war is over, except for Turkey keeping the small Idlib front going.

If Obama had intervened the war would still be raging across a much bigger front.

You insane. It's not over. It's running into 10th year. You have no f* idea what you talking about. Very brutal conflict - Assad, Iran, Turkey, Russia, IS, Islamists all brutal. The Kurds are the only ones who are OK, but I'm sure they are not saints either, the least of bad so to say.

McGiver

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

It hasn't stopped newspapers before.

They put a picture of a dead child on the front pages when a child drowned trying to cross the water into Greece.

Another picture of a dead child made the front pages when trying to enter the usa from Mexico.

As other posters said, as long as it fits an agenda.

What agenda? Tell us. Soros? Tin foil hats on.

jmreire

donaghs wrote: »

?

How many migrants are Syrian? The Syrian war is over, except for Turkey keeping the small Idlib front going.

If Obama had intervened the war would still be raging across a much bigger front.

Small Idlib front ? SMALL??? with 3 million people effected? The war in Syria is far from over, and even in places where the "peace" has been restored it is far from normal, with outbreak's of fighting still happening, (admittedly nothing like on the previous scale, but happening none the less )
Sorry, but this war still has a long way to go. And if your point is that all the Syrian Refugees can now return, thats not possible either...a large % of these refugees, left Syria rather than fight, and until there will be a change of Government, they cannot go home...trust me, I know quite a few of them.

alastair

cnbyz wrote: »

build a wall ? where exactly ? on the sea ?

There’s a 200k land border with Turkey too - or mostly river. But it’s mostly fenced where crossings are viable.

vriesmays

Odhinn wrote: »

You might elaborate on that....?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

1st dalkey dalkey

I have no problem taking in refugees, I think we do have responsibilities to play our part in helping those in distress.

But a few caveats.

There has to be a limit annually on the numbers we take in. The migrant industry seems to have a real problem with that idea, but it is completely logical. Housing, health, education all have annual budgetary limits on their activities. The notion that we can limit our own citizens access to these areas while providing unlimited resources to refugees and migrants is just stupid.

Refugees should be chosen from official UN refugee camps and be properly assessed as to their needs. Those who enter illegally or by forcing their way across frontiers should be automatically excluded from consideration and returned. They are queue jumpers stealing someone else's place.

My last caveat has little to do with refugees. It has to do with our law business. It needs serious reform to prevent abuse of the refugee/asylum system for profit by legal practitioners. It should also have an annual budget, just like health, housing etc. It is currently an ever lasting gravy train for unscrupulous practitioners.

alastair

1st dalkey dalkey wrote: »

I have no problem taking in refugees, I think we do have responsibilities to play our part in helping those in distress.

But a few caveats.

There has to be a limit annually on the numbers we take in. The migrant industry seems to have a real problem with that idea, but it is completely logical. Housing, health, education all have annual budgetary limits on their activities. The notion that we can limit our own citizens access to these areas while providing unlimited resources to refugees and migrants is just stupid.

Refugees should be chosen from official UN refugee camps and be properly assessed as to their needs. Those who enter illegally or by forcing their way across frontiers should be automatically excluded from consideration and returned. They are queue jumpers stealing someone else's place.

My last caveat has little to do with refugees. It has to do with our law business. It needs serious reform to prevent abuse of the refugee/asylum system for profit by legal practitioners. It should also have an annual budget, just like health, housing etc. It is currently an ever lasting gravy train for unscrupulous practitioners.

Your caveats are contrary to international law.

Ray Donovan

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/rape-victim-tells-court-two-convicted-men-have-robbed-her-of-last-five-years-of-her-life-986766.html

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/im-scared-hell-kill-woman-beaten-by-husband-demands-that-he-is-deported-39027212.html

Cultural Enrichment eh...?

christy c

tjhook wrote: »

Our responsibility is to help countries like Greece/Italy to maintain the integrity of European borders.[/quo7te]

jmreire

alastair wrote: »

Your caveats are contrary to international law.

Does International Law allow unlimited Nrs into the EU ?

alastair

jmreire wrote: »

Does International Law allow unlimited Nrs into the EU ?

No idea what Nrs is.

jmreire

alastair wrote: »

No idea what Nrs is.

As in 10's, 100's, 1'000's, 10'000's , 100'000's, 1'000'000's or multiple of these figures?

alastair

jmreire wrote: »

As in 10's, 100's, 1'000's, 10'000's , 100'000's, 1'000'000's or multiple of these figures?

Ahh; no. The laws aren’t predicated on numbers, just applicability.

enricoh

Of course we should take more- the direct provision spend was only up 66% last year on 2018! Surely we can hit 100% in 2020.
Brexit, global recession, Corona, corporation tax threat , 200 billion debt -aint no thing, keep em coming!
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEBGnZZIRISmaoRKCI60rmdwqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowqfqFCzD7v4MDMNLDjQY?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen

A sharp increase in the cost of providing emergency beds for asylum seekers last year resulted in State spending on direct provision accommodation rising by two-thirds to more than €129 million

jmreire

alastair wrote: »

Ahh; no. The laws aren’t predicated on numbers, just applicability.

So in that case, ( at least theoretically) all of the Asylum seekers / Refugee's currently in camps everywhere, could come to Europe, and be accepted based om International Law?

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

Ahh; no. The laws aren’t predicated on numbers, just applicability.

'Applicability', defined as... ?

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

'Applicability', defined as... ?

Escaping persecution on the basis of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.

alastair

jmreire wrote: »

So in that case, ( at least theoretically) all of the Asylum seekers / Refugee's currently in camps everywhere, could come to Europe, and be accepted based om International Law?

Their claims could theoretically be heard sure. But in reality - all those refugees have sought sanctuary somewhere, and most of them not in Europe.

jmreire

alastair wrote: »

Escaping persecution on the basis of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.

That would cover all of the Syrian's in all of the camps dotted around Syria. " Political Opinion" ( they disagree with the Regime) Religion ( they are mainly but not exclusively ) Sunni. Syrian Regime is Shia.
I'm not a legal expert by any means, but maybe when these Law's were being framed, the Nr's were manageable, in at the most, their 1'000's? Otherwise, nothing (legally) to stop a whole Nation transplanting itself into Europe? Far fetched, I know, but technically and legally possible ?