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Should Ireland and the rest of Europe take in more migrants based in Turkey?

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    #452
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Kivaro wrote: »
    The 140,000 who woke up this morning without jobs might find that situation a tad unfair.
    i'd say an awful lot of these are migrants in the service industry


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    #453
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i'd say an awful lot of these are migrants in the service industry
    Who indeed deserves social protection.
    If they worked here, then they should get all the help due to them.
    My local community is enhanced by working migrants, who are socially conscious, work for a living, and contribute positively to society. I have more in common with them than the lazy indigenous who treat welfare as a lifestyle.

    We need to remember though that there is a huge difference between working migrants and asylum scammers (economic migrants) who's sole purpose is access to a (once) very generous welfare system.

    If anything is derived from this Covid-19 crisis, it's the need for a complete overhaul of the social welfare system. €750,000,000 every year for the social welfare Christmas bonus? How many ventilators could we buy with that type of money?


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    #454
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    I'm sure if the scheme was an actual success you'd have posted a link with some hard evidence a long time ago, rather than relying on anecdotal evidence.

    You are, are you? Have you considered the possibility that I’ve no interest in proving the point to you? As in none. Like I said - I know if two - both of which have been very successful.


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    #455
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    I'm sure if the scheme was an actual success you'd have posted a link with some hard evidence a long time ago, rather than relying on anecdotal evidence.

    Because Alistair is right in what he says.....the Irish Red Cross did advertise for households to accept Syrian refugee's, and a Nr. of households accepted them. I'd have to check back through the files now to confirm the exact figures, but it did happen.


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    #456
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jmreire wrote: »
    Because Alistair is right in what he says.....the Irish Red Cross did advertise for households to accept Syrian refugee's, and a Nr. of households accepted them. I'd have to check back through the files now to confirm the exact figures, but it did happen.

    When you do check your files, could you also find out how long a period they stayed with their host?


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    #457
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Deleted User wrote: »
    When you do check your files, could you also find out how long a period they stayed with their host?

    It’s been at least two years with one of the households I’m aware of so far, less than a year for the other.


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    #458
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Deleted User wrote: »
    When you do check your files, could you also find out how long a period they stayed with their host?

    Appeal was made in 2015, and a total of 47 refugees, made up of 11 families and 19 single people, have been accommodated. Since then,most of these people would have "made their own way" assisted by the IRC. I don't have the exact detail's to hand as to who stayed where and for how long , and where they ended up ( I'm now retired, but could probably still get them though with a bit of inquiring )
    But the bottom line is that, as Alastair said, the IRC were running a program to house Syrian refugee's. And they are still involved with refugees. In the past, during the war in Bosnia, they helped many Balkan refugees Croats, Serb's and Bosnian's to settle here, and they are now more Irish than the Irish themselves...I still meet a few of them occasionally.


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    #459
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭enricoh


    There's 150k people out of work in the last week alone from Corona virus. God knows what the final figure will be and how many billion it'll cost. We're the third most heavily indebted country in the developed world iirc.

    At what stage does the penny drop that we can't afford to take anymore?!


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    #460
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    enricoh wrote: »
    There's 150k people out of work in the last week alone from Corona virus. God knows what the final figure will be and how many billion it'll cost. We're the third most heavily indebted country in the developed world iirc.

    At what stage does the penny drop that we can't afford to take anymore?!

    It never will.

    That's pretty much a given now.


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    #461
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    I think that it is extraordinary that 150 asylum seekers who are currently being housed in Dublin hotels are now being moved to a small town on the west coast of Kerry.

    Surely this renovated-hotel-for-asylum-seekers in Cahersiveen should be utilised instead to house vulnerable people of all ages where Covid-19 will be lethal and a probable death sentence to them if contracted? Especially for the immune-comprised or people with underlying health conditions who live in a Covid-19 epicenter like Dublin.

    There will be a glut of hotel rooms available in Dublin in the coming weeks and months, so there will be plenty of room to house asylum seekers.
    This move of asylum seekers to the hotel in the centre of the town, according to the Department of Justice & Equality, is part of its emergency response to Covid-19. As usual, there was no consultation with local people or public representatives on the move. Apparently the Department of Justice earlier this year denied that there were plans for a direct provision centre for the town of Cahersiveen.
    It seemed they lied.

    This is an intolerable, untimely, and unfair decision by the government. More so to do it during a historical pandemic when the local population and local services are already under enormous strain.
    More here.


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    #462
    iebamm2580
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭iebamm2580


    Posted in another thread that it really is amazing how there is no mention of the migrants on the Greece border now since the virus kicked off. Just shows media for what it is.


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    #463
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    Posted in another thread that it really is amazing how there is no mention of the migrants on the Greece border now since the virus kicked off. Just shows media for what it is.

    Outa sight-Outa mind,that's the reality of it.

    Bearing in mind that much of the mainstream media is heavily biased towards increasing and maintaining the inward flow of migrants,supposedly from wartorn regions,it is surely not in their interest to cease coverage ?

    However,even the most supportive liberal thinking,all-embracing doey eyed freeman citizen of the World will revert to the basic human law of self-preservation when presented with taking that personal decision.

    Several thousand unvetted,non Corona assessed people,ALL wanting to come to YOUR Town/Village/House in order to assimilate and bring the benefits of their society to 'ours'....yes ?

    I believe the savvy media folk know when to fold their tents and slide silently away until their star once again is in the ascendancy.

    The reality for the genuine Syrian refugees is they have left one war zone for another,possibly more dangerous one,with little real welcome now available to them.

    As for the rest of the throng,who have blighted the cause of the Syrians since the beginning,they will continue to do their best to break through any security and melt into the welcoming bosom of the detested unbelieving Western World.

    Interesting times indeed.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #464
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    I see that the Irish Times and RTE are still pushing the plight of asylum seekers on a daily basis even during this historical world pandemic. The Irish Times last week complaining on how deadly it would be in Direct Provision centres if the virus hit these centres.
    Note to the Irish Times: It would be deadly to Irish schools, hospitals, and places of businesses too ................ not just DP centres.
    Does the liberal elite in the Irish Times and RTE want us to close down DP centres now and disperse Africans, Pakistani, and other people with dissimilar cultures to us to people's homes around the country?

    When this virus crisis has passed ............ if it ever passes ............. I certainly hope that there can be a national discussion on the migration of non-EU economic migrants into Ireland. It is only fair that the people are allowed input into this policy since it affects all our lives.
    Sinn Fein and the other parties that support unlimited non-EU migration will need to adjust their stance of "no discussion" just because it involves migrants.


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    #465
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Kivaro wrote: »
    I see that the Irish Times and RTE are still pushing the plight of asylum seekers on a daily basis even during this historical world pandemic. The Irish Times last week complaining on how deadly it would be in Direct Provision centres if the virus hit these centres.
    Note to the Irish Times: It would be deadly to Irish schools, hospitals, and places of businesses too ................ not just DP centres.
    Does the liberal elite in the Irish Times and RTE want us to close down DP centres now and disperse Africans, Pakistani, and other people with dissimilar cultures to us to people's homes around the country?

    When this virus crisis has passed ............ if it ever passes ............. I certainly hope that there can be a national discussion on the migration of non-EU economic migrants into Ireland. It is only fair that the people are allowed input into this policy since it affects all our lives.
    Sinn Fein and the other parties that support unlimited non-EU migration will need to adjust their stance of "no discussion" just because it involves migrants.

    Indeed they might need to adjust their sets....perhaps beginning with the lower hanging fruit in terms of beliefs and their impact upon our own domestic setup....

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0319/1124039-bangladesh-coronavirus/
    Local police chief Tota Miah said some 10,000 Muslims gathered in an open field in Raipur town in southern Bangladesh to pray "healing verses" from the Koran to rid the country of the deadly virus.

    "They held the Khatme Shifa prayers after dawn to free the country from the coronavirus."

    Organisers claimed the number of worshippers was 25,000.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #466
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    NO !


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    #467
    UrbanSprawl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭UrbanSprawl


    only a suicidal fool would argue this is a good idea .


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    #468
    nigeldaniel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    I am afraid the answer is no. take in 100, take in 1000, or 10000 and the problem is still going to be there. The issues with migrants and refugees, in general, will always be there until a green zone is created and enforced by the UN in their country.. none of this peacekeeping stuff either the UN needs to be able to hit back when under attack and they need full military support in their work not just token patroles. NATO is also an option but would require a lot of new planning

    Dan.



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    #469
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    In the present situation, Country's are closing their borders anyway...to everyone except their own nationals returning home. This will increase as the crisis deepens.


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    #470
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    jmreire wrote: »
    In the present situation, Country's are closing their borders anyway...to everyone except their own nationals returning home. This will increase as the crisis deepens.

    hopefully very slow in re-opening them too.


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    #471
    cj maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 14,195 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    To the OP . No


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    #472
    Clarence Boddiker
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Clarence Boddiker


    New DP centre for Caherciveen in Kerry, whilst all the hotels in the country are shut due to the virus and we're all told to isolate and keep our distance the govt are putting 100 people together in a hotel.....hmmmmm

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/welcome-committee-set-up-for-asylum-seekers-arriving-in-co-kerry-1.4205990?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fwelcome-committee-set-up-for-asylum-seekers-arriving-in-co-kerry-1.4205990


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    #473
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Clarence Boddiker wrote: »
    New DP centre for Caherciveen in Kerry, whilst all the hotels in the country are shut due to the virus and we're all told to isolate and keep our distance the govt are putting 100 people together in a hotel.....hmmmmm

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/welcome-committee-set-up-for-asylum-seekers-arriving-in-co-kerry-1.4205990?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fwelcome-committee-set-up-for-asylum-seekers-arriving-in-co-kerry-1.4205990
    150 asylum seekers I believe. It will totally skew the population of the small town.
    And they want the hospitality workers who lost their jobs this week in Killarney to go working in the asylum hotel.

    Surreal world .......


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    #474
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Kivaro wrote: »
    150 asylum seekers I believe. It will totally skew the population of the small town.
    And they want the hospitality workers who lost their jobs this week in Killarney to go working in the asylum hotel.

    Surreal world .......

    Could be one of the very few growth industry's this year?!!
    Bankrupt Paddy will keep taking them and giving the spoofers leave to remain - it'd be rude not to!


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    #475
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Your Local TD wrote: »
    We should take in 0.

    -1500.
    Remove instead of adding.
    As buff Egan would say "Out Out"


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    #476
    davidglanza
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭davidglanza


    Definitely NO


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    #477
    statesaver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭statesaver


    Once this crisis is over and all European countries are in an economic depression, there will be no money to bring in migrants to houses them, feed them, social welfare payments. None.


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    #478
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    statesaver wrote: »
    Once this crisis is over and all European countries are in an economic depression, there will be no money to bring in migrants to houses them, feed them, social welfare payments. None.

    You really think that will stop the demands that Western countries help? Even during Irelands recession, people were still giving large amount of aid payments to Africa, and other charities. Go back to when Ireland was a relatively poor country, and you'll still see demands that Irish people should help those in need.

    Migration (of whatever type) is not going to stop.


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    #479
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You really think that will stop the demands that Western countries help? Even during Irelands recession, people were still giving large amount of aid payments to Africa, and other charities. Go back to when Ireland was a relatively poor country, and you'll still see demands that Irish people should help those in need.

    Migration (of whatever type) is not going to stop.
    The working migrants will be a benefit to the country. What we need to do going forward is to stop the migration that involves the migrants who sole purpose in picking Ireland is a lifetime on social welfare, free housing and free healthcare.
    When/if this crisis finally ends, there is no way that Ireland can sustain the social welfare bill. The government is currently borrowing money to pay for a lot of new programs plus the welfare bill.

    I believe that a lot of countries in Europe will change their stance on non-EU migration in the coming months. Ireland can not virtue signal on this issue anymore. The country needs to focus on the needs of the people already here, who are going to struggle to survive for years to come.


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    #480
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kivaro wrote: »
    The working migrants will be a benefit to the country. What we need to do going forward is to stop the migration that involves the migrants who sole purpose in picking Ireland is a lifetime on social welfare, free housing and free healthcare.
    When/if this crisis finally ends, there is no way that Ireland can sustain the social welfare bill. The government is currently borrowing money to pay for a lot of new programs plus the welfare bill.

    I believe that a lot of countries in Europe will change their stance on non-EU migration in the coming months. Ireland can not virtue signal on this issue anymore. The country needs to focus on the needs of the people already here, who are going to struggle to survive for years to come.

    I agree. There needs to be more done in terms of education to prepare migrants (and the unemployed) to be able to work in long-term viable professions. Automation is a thing. It will be brought in to vastly decrease many lower end professions which migrants currently avail of.

    Basically, there needs to be a solid initiative of integration and lifting people so that they can work to provide a good standard of care for their families... right now, the focus isn't there.


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    #481
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I agree. There needs to be more done in terms of education to prepare migrants (and the unemployed) to be able to work in long-term viable professions. Automation is a thing. It will be brought in to vastly decrease many lower end professions which migrants currently avail of.

    Basically, there needs to be a solid initiative of integration and lifting people so that they can work to provide a good standard of care for their families... right now, the focus isn't there.

    I think most of those in Turkey being pushed into Europe are former fighters against the assad regime . I doubt any feeble attempt at integration will make any difference to jihads .


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