Dublin bus footage and reporting a driver

Better Than Christ

Hurrache wrote: »

So much nonsense here.

However it's a good insight into why some bus drivers are absolute assholes around people on bikes.

I sit patiently behind them and always give a lot more space than I'm legally required to. Not sure how that equates to being an 'asshole'.

ted1

Better Than Christ wrote: »

On the rare occasion that the other lane is free and I'm 100% sure I'll be well clear of the cyclist by the time I reach the next bus stop, I always completely leave the bus lane to complete the overtake. More often than not though, I (and all my passengers) have no choice but to sit patiently behind the bike. I've often had passengers miss connecting buses as a direct result of getting stuck behind cyclists in the bus lane. I'd love to blame private cars for this (because they are the real enemy, as far as I'm concerned), but I can't help feeling that cyclists should have some manners and give way to a 100% occupied bus.



What's worse though? A bus with 70 passengers holding one cyclist up, or one cyclist holding a bus with 70 passengers up? I'd be inclined to prioritise the 70 people, tbh. Especially on stretches where the cyclist has another option - albeit an imperfect one - in the form of a cycle path.

Odds are you drive a single occupancy car....

Better Than Christ

ted1 wrote: »

Odds are you drive a single occupancy car....

I drive a bus. And as much as possible, I travel as a passenger on them too. I'd happily ban single-occupancy cars at certain times of the day.

Wishbone Ash

Better Than Christ wrote: »

.... I (and all my passengers) have no choice but to sit patiently behind the bike. I've often had passengers miss connecting buses as a direct result of getting stuck behind cyclists in the bus lane....

If you have one person waiting at each stop on your route, or one person alighting at each stop, your passengers could also miss connecting bus routes. You are displaying the same misguided bias that so many other road users have for what they perceive is delaying them rather than for what is actually delaying them. You sound a bit like those who arrive late for work and they say that they got 'stuck behind a tractor' - no mention of the 1,000 other private car drivers on their route which actually delayed them.

micar

I know this section of road all too well. It's a complete disaster for cyclists going from on off road cycle lane onto an on road shared bus lane....plus it's coming from down hill section

Many incidences with motorists coming from behind at speed, over taking on the right, cutting across your path to take a left turn....some were absolutely frightening.

Thank God I no longer need to cycle up there.

Hope you ok OP.

Better Than Christ

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you have one person waiting at each stop on your route, or one person alighting at each stop, your passengers could also miss connecting bus routes. You are displaying the same misguided bias that so many other road users have for what they perceive is delaying them rather than for what is actually delaying them. You sound a bit like those who arrive late for work and they say that they got 'stuck behind a tractor' - no mention of the 1,000 other private car drivers on their route which actually delayed them.

The timetable is designed to facilitate people getting on and off. I'm not allowed to run early, so even if someone isn't waiting at a stop, I often find myself pulling in anyway to mitigate against early running. There have been times when I had been running on time and the presence of a cyclist in the bus lane was literally the only thing that delayed me, thus resulting in missed connections. Although I do accept that those passengers should plan their journeys better - if a cyclist delaying you by two minutes is enough to make you miss a connection, then it's probably worth getting an earlier bus.

On the flip side, there have been occasions when traffic is lighter than usual and I've used cyclists blocking bus lanes as an excuse to kill a bit of time, thus avoiding running early.

Hurrache

People on bikes don't block bus lanes.

There's the oul attitude again.

Wishbone Ash

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The timetable is designed to facilitate people getting on and off. I'm not allowed to run early, so even if someone isn't waiting at a stop, I often find myself pulling in anyway to mitigate against early running.....

The drivers on my DB route (the 33) certainly don't do that! I'm not a regular user but when I do, I have to allow a big difference from the scheduled time to the actual time of arrival. If there are less passengers, the bus could arrive 30 minutes ahead of schedule.

Better Than Christ

Hurrache wrote: »

People on bikes don't block bus lanes.

There's the oul attitude again.

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

Better Than Christ

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

Do you think that some of them are taking that position in the lane to prevent such passes? Most of us here have the spidey-senses to know when the lane needs to be taken, once bitten and all that.

Better Than Christ

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The drivers on my DB route (the 33) certainly don't do that! I'm not a regular user but when I do, I have to allow a big difference from the scheduled time to the actual time of arrival. If there are less passengers, the bus could arrive 30 minutes ahead of schedule.

The company I drive for is contractually obliged to stick rigidly to the schedule. If the NTA have their way, Dublin Bus drivers will eventually have to do the same. Which might result in fewer incidents with cyclists, as drivers will no longer be rushing to the terminus for their extended breaks. It's one of the things that was rammed down my throat during induction - "don't take risks in order to gain time because you will never ever be punished for running late."

Hurrache

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

No, they don't. They use them, like they're entitled to.

Midnight_EG

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

As a bus driver, you're not going to win in the Cycling Forum :P

ted1

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The timetable is designed to facilitate people getting on and off. I'm not allowed to run early, so even if someone isn't waiting at a stop, I often find myself pulling in anyway to mitigate against early running. There have been times when I had been running on time and the presence of a cyclist in the bus lane was literally the only thing that delayed me, thus resulting in missed connections. Although I do accept that those passengers should plan their journeys better - if a cyclist delaying you by two minutes is enough to make you miss a connection, then it's probably worth getting an earlier bus.

On the flip side, there have been occasions when traffic is lighter than usual and I've used cyclists blocking bus lanes as an excuse to kill a bit of time, thus avoiding running early.

If you think that cyclist hold you up. You need to look at your driving. A cyclist in front of you may hold you up, but you then pull into a stop. Then the cyclist moves in. All you have to do is accelerate a little more to make up the most ground.


But back in topic. This driver was driving both dangerously and illegally. At the time of over taking I was doing 37.4 kmh, so wasn’t moving to slow. Especially as we weren’t to far off the lights.

ted1

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They do. Regularly. Not that that in any way excuses bus drivers who get impatient and take it upon themselves to pass them unsafely.

Watch this video. https://youtu.be/BapFZkvQHmY

Better Than Christ

ted1 wrote:

If you think that cyclist hold you up. You need to look at your driving. A cyclist in front of you may hold you up, but you then pull into a stop. Then the cyclist moves in. All you have to do is accelerate a little more to make up the most ground.

I look at my driving all the time, especially where cyclists are concerned. I'm more than aware that a momentary lapse of concentration on my part, something as simple as looking in the wrong mirror at the wrong time, could kill someone. And then there's the issue of common courtesy. For example, there are plenty of occasions, especially on the N11 northbound between Foxrock church and Stillorgan (like here, where there is a shared bus/cycle lane), when I've stopped dead in the bus lane, to allow cyclists to pass me on the inside before pulling into a stop.

ted1 wrote: »

Watch this video. https://youtu.be/BapFZkvQHmY

I don't know why you're telling me to watch that. As far as I'm concerned, if a cyclist insists on using a bus lane, they should obviously position themselves away from the kerb in a way that reduces the chance of any impatient driver (bus or taxi) attempting to squeeze past them.

punisher5112

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Does any part of the training include informing drivers that cyclists have no legal requirement to use cycle tracks? the only time I get any hassle from DB drivers is when I'm legally cycling along a bus lane with a segregated off road cycle track - generally a close pass or driving close behind while leaning on the horn.

Funny you say that.... I get a lot of hassle and abuse off cyclists believing the cycle lane is theirs, also in bus lanes and other roads now that have the bike symbol painted on the road.

Yes training is provided but when Leo opened it up from must use a cycle lane when provided they still didn't fix the wording on the statute.

micar

punisher5112 wrote: »

Funny you say that.... I get a lot of hassle and abuse off cyclists believing the cycle lane is theirs

Funny you saying that. I've been told 4 times recently by motorists that I'm not allowed to cycle outside the cycle lane

Twice I was over taking a cyclist .
Once I was over taking a lorry parked in the cycle lane .....seems it was only visible to me
Once by a motorits in the bus lane as had moved outside to prepare myself for having to cross 2 lanes to get to my right hand turn

AndrewJRenko

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Can't help the OP but just to back up some of what punisher5112 (unfitting name for a Dublin bus driver) wrote above. I've been cycling all over Dublin for over 20 years and I find Dublin bus drivers very good on the whole and improving all the time. In those years I've only had two incidents I would call dangerous and they were many years ago. The past 4 years my commute has seen me cycle the length of the quays morning and evening and the drivers have quite honestly been great. No connection with Dublin bus but they do get an unfair wrap at times and as professionals are streets ahead of any other company or mode of transport.

My growing concern about DB drivers has little to do with cyclists. It is the way that they frequently block key junctions, along the Grand Canal for example, sometimes the bike lane junctions and sometimes the car junctions. It's not unusual to see that the bus driver has forced their vehicle into the junction and then seems hugely surprised to find heavy traffic in rush hour has not allowed them to clear the junction.

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The company I drive for is contractually obliged to stick rigidly to the schedule. If the NTA have their way, Dublin Bus drivers will eventually have to do the same. Which might result in fewer incidents with cyclists, as drivers will no longer be rushing to the terminus for their extended breaks. It's one of the things that was rammed down my throat during induction - "don't take risks in order to gain time because you will never ever be punished for running late."

This is very good to hear.

punisher5112

Was stuck behind a Gocar in ballsbridge earlier, the passenger was holding the phone up on the dash and the driver was looking at it and pointing etc.... She couldn't keep to the lane and was going left and right..,.

Got to a cyclist and how she didn't throw him off the bike is beyond me as she brushed his clothes with the car mirror, she hadn't a breeze, get to junction she stop nowhere near it, then turns right but decides last second to cross 4 lanes to go left....

ted1

Reported to Garda TravelWatch this morning. Will keep you all posted.

Lewotsil

I too think the majority of DB bus drivers are great

The minority of DB drivers who have beep aggressively and deliberately close pass me on the N11 should lose their jobs imo.

I have made complaints to DB ..... arduos process requiring multiple follow-ups and at best all you get is 'Driver has been spoken to and disciplinary action taken'.

Never got any info on what disciplinary action taken but I have confronted loads of DB drivers at red lights about their dangerous driving on N11 and nearly all tell me I should not be cycling in the bus lane when there is a cycle lane........... blatantly wrong.

Whats maddening is that I cycle contra peak traffic flow so two lanes outside me are invariably empty

Little to no issues with private operators on same route ....Aircoach, Wexford Bus, etc.

Lewotsil

Better Than Christ wrote: »

, they should obviously position themselves away from the kerb in a way that reduces the chance of any impatient driver (bus or taxi) attempting to squeeze past them.

I try taking primary position too if I am going as fast as the motor traffic, If I am slower I try and be courteous move in to leave motor traffic pass

Wish the courtesy could be reciprocated............all boils down to patience and respect for other road users #sharewithcare

tnegun

The problem with letting traffic pass is that you'll never be let back out to primary position, there are a couple spots on my commute where I take primary and could move left but experience has thought me its not worth it Just on the private operators being better I think its just that there are less of them so poor behavior isn't noticed anyway branding all DB drivers is the same same giving out about cyclists. End of the day we're all human and there are w@nkers in every walk of life.

Better Than Christ

Lewotsil wrote: »

I have made complaints to DB ..... arduos process requiring multiple follow-ups and at best all you get is 'Driver has been spoken to and disciplinary action taken'.

I don't know about Dublin Bus, but the company I work for gives a similar generic response. However, they do take complaints about driver behaviour extremely seriously. I know of a number of drivers who've been sacked for 'gross misconduct' in recent weeks, as a result of complaints sent in by passengers and other road users. Just because you don't get the satisfaction of hearing what happened, doesn't mean that nothing happened.

Lewotsil

tnegun wrote: »

The problem with letting traffic pass is that you'll never be let back out to primary position, there are a couple spots on my commute where I take primary and could move left but experience has thought me its not worth it Just on the private operators being better I think its just that there are less of them so poor behavior isn't noticed anyway branding all DB drivers is the same same giving out about cyclists. End of the day we're all human and there are w@nkers in every walk of life.

I have a feeling that the DB drivers feel protected in a unionised public sector env. I have only once in 6 years and 8 trips per weeks on average felt like complaining against a private operator

DB could be up around a 100.

the best I saw was a DB driver with the old metro paper folded across the steering wheel at the lights in Nutley lane.

I have seen it all !

Lewotsil

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I don't know about Dublin Bus, but the company I work for gives a similar generic response. However, they do take complaints about driver behaviour extremely seriously. I know of a number of drivers who've been sacked for 'gross misconduct' in recent weeks, as a result of complaints sent in by passengers and other road users. Just because you don't get the satisfaction of hearing what happened, doesn't mean that nothing happened.

Good to hear - this does not surprise me as I would expect private sector operators to be more dynamic.

punisher5112

Lewotsil wrote: »

I have a feeling that the DB drivers feel protected in a unionised public sector env. I have only once in 6 years and 8 trips per weeks on average felt like complaining against a private operator

DB could be up around a 100.

the best I saw was a DB driver with the old metro paper folded across the steering wheel at the lights in Nutley lane.

I have seen it all !

Hilarious, them papers are gone 10 years aren't they....

What was so dangerous that you as a passenger are trained to notice?

We are checked by a trained inspector every 6 months or a year depending.

We have CCTV everywhere and honestly I very rarely would have to say oh that lad or lass ahead was dangerous....

I do find a few where they have become a bit lazy and aren't in a hurry etc.

Driving standard is one of the best across Europe actually.

There is also the CPC which we must do, then there is the vigil vanguard which marks ones driving standard.

The buses we have aren't suitable for the poor condition roads and especially ramps as by God one feels every single little bump and crack in the road.

The older buses were much more comfortable.

punisher5112

Lewotsil wrote: »

Good to hear - this does not surprise me as I would expect private sector operators to be more dynamic.

But they aren't in many cases.

Look at DC and the driving is quite poor.

I've many years experience and I've actually had some issues with how the GA are been trained as some of the skills are poor.

sondagefaux

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I don't know about Dublin Bus, but the company I work for gives a similar generic response. However, they do take complaints about driver behaviour extremely seriously. I know of a number of drivers who've been sacked for 'gross misconduct' in recent weeks, as a result of complaints sent in by passengers and other road users. Just because you don't get the satisfaction of hearing what happened, doesn't mean that nothing happened.

If companies (not just bus companies) want to reassure people who make legitimate claims about their employees, it would help for complainants to be informed of the outcome of their complaints in detail, including what action, if any, has been taken in respect of employees subject to complaints.

In any case, I would have thought that any disciplinary action taken on foot of a complaint made by someone would be personal data related to that person (the complainant) and therefore details of the disciplinary action, if any, should be made available under GDPR to the complainant.