Picard 1x07 - "Nepenthe" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

AtomicHorror

Evade wrote: »

It's like saying someone's been to Wormhole. It's a type of anomaly not a specific place.

No, it's like saying someone's been to the Moon or the Sun. We named the Moon without knowing there was loads of them. Then we discovered about 300 more of them. They're all moons, but only one of them is the Moon.

Tyken discovered a spacetime rift of a type that allows energy to drain from real space into subspace. He had a pretty bad day, but he survived and got to name the anomaly Tyken's Rift. It has a known position. You can go there (carefully).

The Enterprise ran into a new Tyken's Rift, not the Tyken's Rift, but a spacetime rift with the same distinctive characteristics. Presumably this one was not named "Tyken's Rift" after its discovery. Maybe this one was later named Hagan's Rift, or the Brattain Rift. By rights, it should probably be Troi's Rift, since she saved everyone involved.

That's actually not a great name, on reflection.

Evade

Data said "a rare anomaly" when Crusher asked what it was implying it's the name of of the phenomena not a specific place. Maybe it's both but that's just confusing, they even renamed the Moon and the Sun in Star Trek to clear up any confusion there.

AtomicHorror

Thargor wrote: »

Why would you need a positronic matrix to cure a genetic disease?

It's not a genetic disease, it's a silicon-based virus. If it was a genetic disease, it would still make sense to treat a neuro-degenerative disease using a positronic matrix, especially given that genetic modification of humans is banned in the Federation.

Thargor wrote: »

And even if you did they're saying in the entire galaxy that heroes of the federation that have literally saved the galaxy and the timeline and reality itself multiple times like Riker and Troi couldn't get their hands on one? Their strategy was to go live on a planet with good soil and eat healthy food? I know its sci-fi but you need to be a bit realistic...

When was the last time the crew of the Enterprise outright broke Federation law? And to make their own child complicit in that? They did what they hoped was right and it ended in tragedy. Change the details and that's a timeless story of parenthood.

AtomicHorror

Evade wrote: »

Data said "a rare anomaly" when Crusher asked what it was implying it's the name of of the phenomena not a specific place. Maybe it's both but that's just confusing, they even renamed the Moon and the Sun in Star Trek to clear up any confusion there.

And yet in Generations, you can see Tyken's Rift on the map in Stellar Cartography. So maybe they messed up in Generations, but I think we could cut the Picard writers a tiny bit of slack.

I mean, it's not like Tyken's Rift was a hypothetical phenomenon like an Einstein-Rosen Bridge or a Dyson Sphere. Tyken discovered that first specific example out in the wild. It's a place, and a type of anomaly.

I think the writers have been very respectful of the canon. No need to take a dump on them for such grey areas. Space Cersei is a valid target, if anyone really needs one.

tromtipp

AtomicHorror wrote: »

By rights, it should probably be Troi's Rift, since she saved everyone involved.

That's actually not a great name, on reflection.

Particularly given the angle she was filmed from in that last dream sequence.

Evade

AtomicHorror wrote: »

And yet in Generations, you can see Tyken's Rift on the map in Stellar Cartography. So maybe they messed up in Generations, but I think we could cut the Picard writers a tiny bit of slack.

I mean, it's not like Tyken's Rift was a hypothetical phenomenon like an Einstein-Rosen Bridge or a Dyson Sphere. Tyken discovered that first specific example out in the wild. It's a place, and a type of anomaly.

I think the writers have been very respectful of the canon. No need to take a dump on them for such grey areas. Space Cersei is a valid target, if anyone really needs one.

Was it the Tyken's Rift or a Tyken's Rift on the map? How respectful they have been of canon is debatable but dumping on them for making a canon mistake is probably less insulting than dumping on their bad original characters.

AtomicHorror

Evade wrote: »

Was it the Tyken's Rift or a Tyken's Rift on the map? How respectful they have been of canon is debatable but dumping on them for making a canon mistake is probably less insulting than dumping on their bad original characters.

Space Cersei is a bad character. I like the rest, so far.

I'm not concerned by what criticism is insulting, but what is valid or fair.

Evade

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Space Cersei is a bad character. I like the rest, so far.

I'm not concerned by what criticism is insulting, but what is valid or fair.

You like Raffi? Really? And what you think is valid and fair doesn't apply to everyone else. Canon mistakes, characters acting against type, CGI contradicting the script, and awful characters are all valid and fair criticisms ad far as I'm concerned.

AtomicHorror

Evade wrote: »

You like Raffi? Really?

She's certainly not my favourite, but yes.

Evade wrote: »

And what you think is valid and fair doesn't apply to everyone else.

That's a given, but I think I'm in the majority in this instance.

Evade wrote: »

Canon mistakes, characters acting against type, CGI contradicting the script, and awful characters are all valid and fair criticisms ad far as I'm concerned.

I agree with all of those in principle, but the argument about Tyken's Rift is a grey area- even if it is valid, it is minor. If the Romulans suddenly have blue blood next week, I'll be right there with you.

AtomicHorror

And what I mean by "fair" incidentally, is perfectly illustrated by the Tyken's Rift debacle. Nobody trashes Generations because they put that location into the Stellar Cartography scene. But with Picard, the error (if it is one), is enough of an outrage to warrant a dedicated YouTube video and dozens of sneering comments.

I'm merely suggesting the criticism should be consistent, rational and proportional.

Evade

AtomicHorror wrote: »

And what I mean by "fair" incidentally, is perfectly illustrated by the Tyken's Rift debacle. Nobody trashes Generations because they put that location into the Stellar Cartography scene. But with Picard, the error (if it is one), is enough of an outrage to warrant a dedicated YouTube video and dozens of sneering comments.

I'm merely suggesting the criticism should be consistent, rational and proportional.

Because the interpretation that a Tyken's Rift is an anomaly means it could be on a star map, it's like having a shallow water warning on a nautical map.

I think you put too much stock in Youtube videos. It's 32 seconds of edited clips not an hours long scripted video and it has comments, a decent amount for the views, but why does that matter?

And to be fair I've seen people trash Generations because the lighting on the Enterprise is different than the series and the dome on the roof of the bridge was glass not transparent aluminium so lets not pretend Trek didn't always get this amount of scrutiny.

Gbear

I thought that episode teetered a little bit on the side of mawkish, but ultimately was quite pleasant. A nice garden stroll palette cleanser.

I think this season will do better on rewatches where you watch a few episodes together. This kind of breathing room episode where you take stock and fully flesh out the emotional stakes and relationships can leave you feeling a bit underserved, but I think they make the whole thing better when a season is taken as a whole.

Spon Farmer

I have a lot to say about the show (all good which is a surprise for somethingTNG related) but I don’t want to risk spoilers (and I believe I already saw one when searching for the release date for Discovery Season 3) but there is something that I would like to know.

Why was Marina Sirtis relegated to a guest star spot in the end credits and not listed as a Special Guest Star like Frakes and Jeri Ryan (who got one for a five second appearance in her first episode.

pah

Spon Farmer wrote: »

(all good which is a surprise for somethingTNG related)

I think you're in the wrong forum lad.

Spon Farmer

pah wrote: »

I think you're in the wrong forum lad.

What do you mean?