Coronavirus Part IV - 19 cases in ROI, 7 in NI (as of 7 March) *Read warnings in OP*

Kermit.de.frog

Anyone else reckon the real reason people are being told not to purchase or wear masks is about government/dept of health supply?

While I agree they aren't going to help an individual much at all I don't see how they could make it worse.

I see the HSE has ordered 5 million masks.

TimeToShine

Miike wrote: »

There is no shortage of testing "kits". The testing "kit" here is a sterile swab in transport media which is sent to the National Virology Reference Lab for testing by Real-time Reverse-transcription Polymerase Chain Reaction (rRT-PCR).


There are some gross misunderstandings of the testing process in this thread. Testing someone who is likely to have been "infected" recently will produce nonreactive test (what people are calling "negative" - nonreactive doesn't mean negative, it means the test didn't detect the genetic material of SAR2CoV) this gives people a sense they are not infected but they may very well be infected but the virus has not grown to the point where it can be detected.

Do you have a source for how these tests work in detail? out of curiosity

mloc123

RandomName2 wrote: »

On the flipside the US so far currently has about a 5% fatality rate (higher than elsewhere) which is being blamed on the lack of coordinated response by administration (presumably to do with hospitalization of suspected cases)

The number of cases in the US is hugely inaccurate. It has been circulating for weeks there now... Thousands likely infected but... Too poor to be tested, or afraid to take 2 weeks off work

Goldengirl

amadangomor wrote: »

It's good but the current at risk criteria are too narrow.

Yes. If they now think it may have gone to community transmission the criteria should be changed to reflect that.
I have had a fever and cough for the last 8 days and while feeling a bit better ( was completely flaked out last Monday and Tuesday and in bed ) am still coughing a lot.
2 of my family have it as well , one before and one after me , and while we were taking normal care and not going out as we were unwell we have not been isolated or tested.
Phoned the gp and was told to come in last week and because of criteria of contact with people who have been to Italy etc was not sent for testing , and to be honest , at the time I thought it was just another respiratory viral infection. I then went to shops and pharmacy to pick up a few bits.
However if it doesn't clear up soon , or we are tested and found to have it, that is me and my family , albeit with the best intentions of keeping ourselves to ourselves, spreading this to others in college , school and work .
I think the handling of this by the HSE has not been proactive enough.
I have two underlying conditions and one of my children has too , and it is a worry .

RandomName2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I see the HSE has ordered 5 million masks.

Really? Sounds a bit excessive.

Ficheall

Miike wrote: »

and could be damaging giving people the idea that "sure look I was negative, I'm going down the pub later because I'm grand" when they may very well not be grand at all.

How many of those people do you reckon wouldn't go to the pub if they hadn't had the test at all?

irishgeo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone else reckon the real reason people are being told not to purchase or wear masks is about government/dept of health supply?

While I agree they aren't going to help an individual much at all I don't see how they could make it worse.

I see the HSE has ordered 5 million masks.

As explained because they wont stop you getting the virus.

Downlinz

Why are so many people stocking up on bottled water?

The mains aren't likely to be contaminated and you can always boil in a pinch if you're self isolating.

gabeeg

Miike wrote: »

Again I must say no. The NVRL is quite capable of handing the current demands on the system and they are working on getting the work flow set up in local labs throughout Irelands hospital systems. Testing people willy-nilly without direct contact (high risk) or who are not showing symptoms yet is ineffective (due to the aforementioned lack of growth and detection of low levels of genetic material) and could be damaging giving people the idea that "sure look I was negative, I'm going down the pub later because I'm grand" when they may very well not be grand at all.

The testing criteria in this phase is quite clear in terms of its rationale. It's just complicated to communicate it effectively and I apologise if I've done a bad job at explaining but if you don't get it, I'm sure I could find some reference material to try explain it better

Go ahead. Thanks.

I'll compare it with the NHS strategy which is significantly different apparently

twirlagig

Miss OMMC wrote: »

😬
https://twitter.com/Rylan/status/1236250345187217410?s=19

What was that?

History Queen

SSeanSS wrote: »

"Italy calls in retired doctors to help fight virus" -rte
Heard on news yesterday Leo was planning to do same if outbreak gets much worse. I couldn't imagine many retired doctors would put themselves at risk though.

How about our fearless leader leads by example and goes to the nearest hospital/outofhours doc/medical centre to help out? I won't hold my breath.

dublin99

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone else reckon the real reason people are being told not to purchase or wear masks is about government/dept of health supply?

While I agree they aren't going to help an individual much at all I don't see how they could make it worse.

I see the HSE has ordered 5 million masks.

I agree with you. This is what I posted yesterday. It is the cities where everyone wears a mask that has managed to avoid community spread!

"Can we learn anything from the 3 cities with close proximity to China that all report cases very earlier on in January?

1.Macau had 10 cases and none in the past month.

2.Hong Kong has 107 cases to date, almost all traceable, including 10 passengers of the Diamond Princess.

3.Singapore has 117 to date, most associated with clusters and traceable.

Whilst these cities have not experienced exponential spread in the community despite the high population density, they have now been overtaken by late starters like the UK, Germany, France (even if we consider Italy, S Korea and Iran as special situations). What do they have in common?

AWARENESS and face masks. They all went through SARS. EVERYONE wears a mask in these cities. Although experts say masks are useless, they do stop the spread in community from asymptomatic/ pre-sypmtomatic/ patients with mild symptoms who think they have a cold.

In addition, a mask provides some protection from droplets if someone sneezes or cough in close proximity eg on public transport. Most importantly, if you are wearing a mask, you are less likely to (unconsciously) touch your mouth and nose. That is reinforcing the importance of hand hygiene as you may well have touched a contaminated surface.

The truth is they know there aren't enough masks to go around so they say it is useless."

wakka12

irishgeo wrote: »

We may never get there. Stop **** stirring.

Ah come on. China grew to 80,000 with nobody being let outside, Europe has already far exceeded the numbers in China that existed when the country was locked down for weeks on end. theres **** stirring and then theres blind naivety. We are still talking about whether enormous festivals should go ahead in Europe ffs

Runaways

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone else reckon the real reason people are being told not to purchase or wear masks is about government/dept of health supply?

While I agree they aren't going to help an individual much at all I don't see how they could make it worse.

I see the HSE has ordered 5 million masks.

These are the ones they’re wearing in hospital. It’s really thick but sturdy. They told me the surgical masks are useless in this instance

spookwoman

RandomName2 wrote: »

Really? Sounds a bit excessive.

Not if they have to replace them when they get damp from use.

WHO report into Chinese outbreak. Point to note is once adequate facilities were in place, fatality rate was noted to be 0.7%. HSE needs its house in order.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

cnocbui

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

If it's not over 60% you may as well use cold water, as it has no affect at all.

It would very likely have the same effect if done for longer or done twice.

Bob24

mloc123 wrote: »

The number of cases in the US is hugely inaccurate. It has been circulating for weeks there now... Thousands likely infected but... Too poor to be tested, or afraid to take 2 weeks off work

It might change in the future but at this stage I honestly don’t think being poor or rich makes a difference.

The US certainly aren’t testing enough people, but it is more because they are disorganised and still have outdated testing criteria. I don’t think being rich or having health insurance gives better chances to be tested at this stage.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am a retired nurse and am no longer permitted to work as a nurse as am not on the register .I would now also fall into the at higher risk age group .That would be the case in many retired nurses too .I would be concerned about my own vulnerability and also my out dated information etc .,I would not volunteer for any hospital duty .

A lot of medical staff would be in the same boat as yourself.

Nobody is going to maintain their qualification and keep up to date with policies, procedures and guidelines if they have since retired.

I think they will find it hard to get retired medical staff back to work even if they manage to bring in emergency legislation to allow it.

If I was a retired nurse I wouldn't be putting my hand up.

irishgeo

wakka12 wrote: »

Ah come on. China grew to 80,000 with nobody being let outside, Europe has already far exceeded the numbers in China that existed when the country was locked down for weeks on end. theres **** stirring and then theres blind naivety

One region was locked down not the whole country.

Downlinz

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone else reckon the real reason people are being told not to purchase or wear masks is about government/dept of health supply?

While I agree they aren't going to help an individual much at all I don't see how they could make it worse.

I see the HSE has ordered 5 million masks.

100%

Their explanation is completely illogical that a mask on an infected could keep the virus in but not vice versa.

They have widespread use in Asian countries for a reason.

Ciara26

Moomoomacshoe wrote: »

What about masks? Has anyone sourced any. For immunosuppressed person trying I'm trying to get them some. Any suggestions?

Rathcoole has some

Miike

TimeToShine wrote: »

Do you have a source for how these tests work in detail? out of curiosity

This video is fairly comprehensive without getting way into the nitty gritty of the reagents etc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH7o9Df5_50

Here is the WHO Tech Document with workflow for detection of COVID19:
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/protocol-v2-1.pdf?sfvrsn=a9ef618c_2

This video is of someone doing some genetics work but you can actually kind of get the gist of how PCR works from it: (slightly easy to follow too)
https://youtu.be/7kJ2o7P8D00?list=PLZLsjPxmF1BESfbIs7qFA9LYsPY5bixzV


Some details on reagents and primers of PCR, which again shows the process in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JKCb1UX3N8


Sidebar: These videos are NOT specific to COVID19 but just a general idea how polymerase chain reaction (PCR) works.

owlbethere

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone else reckon the real reason people are being told not to purchase or wear masks is about government/dept of health supply?

While I agree they aren't going to help an individual much at all I don't see how they could make it worse.

I see the HSE has ordered 5 million masks.

Leave the masks for the health professionals. Remember there are other health professionals that will also need masks to continue on in their jobs too like dentists come to mind. Veterinary practices?

Wear a scarf high around the nose and mouth if you want to cover up.

Musefan

I was thinking of that ALS challenge a few years ago which everybody took part in and it went through social media like wildfire. I wonder if someone could come up with something similar prompting hand washing/cough etiquette etc, would it help?

irishgeo

Downlinz wrote: »

100%

Their explanation is completely illogical that a mask on an infected could keep the virus in but not vice versa.

They have widespread use in Asian countries for a reason.

If it gets in via the eyes what good is a mask. The "experts" here think its airborne and you can get numerous ways when no knows. Some people think they might catch it stepping outside or driving in a the same county as a person with it.

Kermit.de.frog

irishgeo wrote: »

As explained because they wont stop you getting the virus.

That might be true but the vehemence with which officials say it suggests to me that is not the actual reason

They get quite animated whenever it's brought up.

Like I say a mask can't do any harm. If people want to wear them then so be it.

wakka12

irishgeo wrote: »

One region was locked down not the whole country.

That is false

'at least 48 cities and four provinces in China have issued official notices for lockdown policies, with measures ranging from “closed-off management”, where residents of a community have to be registered before they are allowed in or out, to restrictions that shut down highways, railways and public transport systems.'

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-scale/under-chinas-coronavirus-lockdown-millions-have-nowhere-to-go-idUSKBN2081DB

500 million Chinese also had restricted movement throughout the country. Cases still grew 160x fold in China despite the implementation of these measures. And you think its **** stirring to say Europes current cases of 8000 might grow to over 100,000 with absolutely no restriction on lifestyle or movement?

Runaways

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That might be true but the vehemence with which officials say it suggests to me that is not the actual reason

They get quite animated whenever it's brought up.

Like I say a mask can't do any harm. If people want to wear them then so be it.

Your far more likely to rub your eyes than have your hand in your mouth though.

owlbethere

Musefan wrote: »

I was thinking of that ALS challenge a few years ago which everybody took part in and it went through social media like wildfire. I wonder if someone could come up with something similar prompting hand washing/cough etiquette etc, would it help?

What is ALS challenge