Dublin City Council vote to delay new homes

Jambonjunior

In the midst of a housing crisis, after a general election where housing was such an important issue, I find it infuriating that DCC has decided to delay homes.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/rezoning-of-dublin-city-lands-for-up-to-3-500-homes-is-delayed-by-council-1.4190857

I've looked up the DCC website but I can't find the result of the vote.

I'd like to know who voted against this rezoning, I want to know who's just crying crocodile tears over homelessness and high rents.

Cina

What do you expect residents to do other than complain when the schools in their area are at capacity, GP's won't take on new people, and public transport is stuffed to the brim? Where I live all of these are the case and the government is trying to let near 400 apartments be build as part of SHD.

Maybe our useless government can use our tax payers money to address these things instead of increasing the dole and pension by a fiver every year and then people will give less of a sh*t about new builds in their area. That too much to ask?

average_runner

Jambonjunior wrote: »

In the midst of a housing crisis, after a general election where housing was such an important issue, I find it infuriating that DCC has decided to delay homes.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/rezoning-of-dublin-city-lands-for-up-to-3-500-homes-is-delayed-by-council-1.4190857

I've looked up the DCC website but I can't find the result of the vote.

I'd like to know who voted against this rezoning, I want to know who's just crying crocodile tears over homelessness and high rents.

Looks like all parties are against it. OP can you tell me what investigation you have done to prove the Councilors are wrong for voting against it.

Residents have a right to have a say.

Jambonjunior

average_runner wrote: »

Residents have a right to have a say.

NIMBYs you mean?

It was a plan created by the planning department in Dublin, and the city planner. It's a planned created by professionals being held up by amateur politicians.

While State bodies and private organisations were generally supportive of the moves, large numbers of residents and residents’ groups opposed the plans for their local areas.

It's literally just NIMBYs against it.

James Brown

Jambonjunior wrote: »

In the midst of a housing crisis, after a general election where housing was such an important issue, I find it infuriating that DCC has decided to delay homes.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/rezoning-of-dublin-city-lands-for-up-to-3-500-homes-is-delayed-by-council-1.4190857

I've looked up the DCC website but I can't find the result of the vote.

I'd like to know who voted against this rezoning, I want to know who's just crying crocodile tears over homelessness and high rents.

Behind a pay wall. Do we know who, (which Councillors) and why?

IAmTheReign

The Irish Times wrote:

The previous council had asked the planning department to assess the industrial lands in the city and see which might be suitable for housing. For most of the 20 sites targeted, industrial zoning is obsolete and does not reflect the current use of the land, or the surrounding lands, city planner John O’Hara has said.

The irony that it was the previous city council themselves who asked the city planners to identify sites for rezoning.

This is a prime example of why local politicians should not be involved in decisions like this. They change their mind based on whatever way the wind is blowing.

The Irish Times wrote:

Chief among (the residents) concerns was that there was already “too much” housing in their locality

Seriously? The problem with Dublin now is there's too much housing? Planning in Ireland is a farce.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Behind a pay wall. Do we know who, (which Councillors) and why?

Soc Dems, Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail quoted in the article as opposing the rezoning.


https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0302/1119800-rezoning/

Independents4Change, Labour and Fianna Fail quoted in this one.

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2020/03/04/with-few-powers-to-shape-what-gets-built-councillors-wary-of-rezoning-industrial-land

Last but not least FG are quoted in this one, with Sinn Fein featuring prominently.

Everyone but the Greens seem against it. Also votes are delayed only for a week or so.

JustMe,K

Bowie wrote: »

Behind a pay wall. Do we know who, (which Councillors) and why?

The rezoning of old industrial lands across Dublin for up to 3,500 homes has been delayed by Dublin city councillors, following objections from local residents to the plans.

The council’s planning department had sought approval to rezone 20 sites in the city, totalling 55 hectares, from industrial to residential or mixed use.

The previous council had asked the planning department to assess the industrial lands in the city and see which might be suitable for housing. For most of the 20 sites targeted, industrial zoning is obsolete and does not reflect the current use of the land, or the surrounding lands, city planner John O’Hara has said.

The sites are spread across the city, with a concentration in the southwest and northeast. Lands include the Mornington Business Park, a 1-hectare site off the Malahide Road in Artane that is bounded on all sides by residential development; a vacant site measuring just 0.16 hectares on Ballyfermot Road Lower, that was previously a coal yard, and a 0.2-hectare site on Esmond Avenue, Fairview, which is used as a builder’s yard but could be suitable for housing.

More than 280 organisations, residents’ associations and individuals made submissions to the council earlier this year on the proposed rezonings.

While State bodies and private organisations were generally supportive of the moves, large numbers of residents and residents’ groups opposed the plans for their local areas. Chief among their concerns was that there was already “too much” housing in their locality and transport services and schools would be unable to cope with increased populations. Other concerns included the uncertainty about the type of homes that would be built, including a fear of tall apartment blocks.

Several councillors said they could not support the rezonings because they did not know what sort of housing would be built on the lands, with a particular concern that tall apartments and co-living blocks would be built.

Lack of oversight
Cllr Catherine Stocker of the Social Democrats said her party could not support the rezoning of land with “no guarantee it will not be used for co-housing”, as there would be “no oversight whatsoever on what we will be giving the green light to”.

Cllr Mícheál Mac Donncha of Sinn Féin said the rezoning was being proposed “within a deeply flawed planning and zoning system”.

Cllr Pat Dunne, an Independent, said the councillors were “being asked to buy a pig in a poke”, while Labour’s Alison Gilliland raised concerns about the “eradication of local employment opportunities”.

Fianna Fáil councillor Racheal Batten said the planned rezonings did not show “real consideration of the residents of Dublin”.

Mr O’Hara said employment uses could continue on the lands despite rezoning. Councillors have agreed to have a separate meeting on the issue next week.

Separately, the councillors have voted to seek leave to take a judicial review of An Bord Pleanála’s decision to grant permission for more than 650 apartments in blocks up to nine storeys tall beside St Anne’s Park in Raheny, Dublin.

An Bord Pleanála last month approved the development by Crekav, a subsidiary of developer Pat Crean’s Marlet Property Group, of 657 apartments along with almost 500 parking spaces on former playing fields east of St Paul’s College beside the park, despite opposition from Dublin City Council and locals.

James Brown

JustMe,K wrote: »

The rezoning of old industrial lands across Dublin for up to 3,500 homes has been delayed by Dublin city councillors, following objections from local residents to the plans.

The council’s planning department had sought approval to rezone 20 sites in the city, totalling 55 hectares, from industrial to residential or mixed use.

The previous council had asked the planning department to assess the industrial lands in the city and see which might be suitable for housing. For most of the 20 sites targeted, industrial zoning is obsolete and does not reflect the current use of the land, or the surrounding lands, city planner John O’Hara has said.

The sites are spread across the city, with a concentration in the southwest and northeast. Lands include the Mornington Business Park, a 1-hectare site off the Malahide Road in Artane that is bounded on all sides by residential development; a vacant site measuring just 0.16 hectares on Ballyfermot Road Lower, that was previously a coal yard, and a 0.2-hectare site on Esmond Avenue, Fairview, which is used as a builder’s yard but could be suitable for housing.

More than 280 organisations, residents’ associations and individuals made submissions to the council earlier this year on the proposed rezonings.

While State bodies and private organisations were generally supportive of the moves, large numbers of residents and residents’ groups opposed the plans for their local areas. Chief among their concerns was that there was already “too much” housing in their locality and transport services and schools would be unable to cope with increased populations. Other concerns included the uncertainty about the type of homes that would be built, including a fear of tall apartment blocks.

Several councillors said they could not support the rezonings because they did not know what sort of housing would be built on the lands, with a particular concern that tall apartments and co-living blocks would be built.

Lack of oversight
Cllr Catherine Stocker of the Social Democrats said her party could not support the rezoning of land with “no guarantee it will not be used for co-housing”, as there would be “no oversight whatsoever on what we will be giving the green light to”.

Cllr Mícheál Mac Donncha of Sinn Féin said the rezoning was being proposed “within a deeply flawed planning and zoning system”.

Cllr Pat Dunne, an Independent, said the councillors were “being asked to buy a pig in a poke”, while Labour’s Alison Gilliland raised concerns about the “eradication of local employment opportunities”.

Fianna Fáil councillor Racheal Batten said the planned rezonings did not show “real consideration of the residents of Dublin”.

Mr O’Hara said employment uses could continue on the lands despite rezoning. Councillors have agreed to have a separate meeting on the issue next week.

Separately, the councillors have voted to seek leave to take a judicial review of An Bord Pleanála’s decision to grant permission for more than 650 apartments in blocks up to nine storeys tall beside St Anne’s Park in Raheny, Dublin.

An Bord Pleanála last month approved the development by Crekav, a subsidiary of developer Pat Crean’s Marlet Property Group, of 657 apartments along with almost 500 parking spaces on former playing fields east of St Paul’s College beside the park, despite opposition from Dublin City Council and locals.

Thanks.

Ah, valid concerns. More private builds that the tax payer subsidies or leases for use as social wouldn't be ideal IMO.
It reads like it's to be rezoned but light on detail and that's why many have stalled it.

In a forward-funding deal which will be the first of its type in Ireland, developer Pat Crean's Marlet Property Group has instructed Savills to offer up to 1,800 apartments to the global investment market in a deal which is likely to have a value in excess of €500m.
https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/the-right-moves-developer-pat-crean-to-offer-1800-apartments-to-global-investment-market-35701103.html

I wonder if Goldman Sachs got a look in.

IAmTheReign

Bowie wrote: »

Thanks.

Ah, valid concerns. More private builds that the tax payer subsidies or leases for use as social wouldn't be ideal IMO.
It reads like it's to be rezoned but light on detail and that's why many have stalled it.



I wonder if Goldman Sachs got a look in.

Of course it's light on detail. It's an application for rezoning, not for construction. When someone submits a panning application to build on the sites is when you expect details. If the concern was legitimately over what might get built there the planning stage is the time to raise those concerns.

Thoie

IAmTheReign wrote: »

Seriously? The problem with Dublin now is there's too much housing? Planning in Ireland is a farce.

"Too much housing" for the infrastructure that exists. This keeps cropping up around the country. People object to developments of 600 houses (or whatever) being plonked in an area that is already far too oversubscribed for schools, doctors, public transport etc. Lack of public transport and facilities ends up driving more people into cars - and the surrounding roads are often already "full".

Development plans often say things like "and a creche will be built" or "and the road will be upgraded", but that kind of thing often comes 5-10 years after the houses are built, if they happen at all.

IAmTheReign

Thoie wrote: »

"Too much housing" for the infrastructure that exists. This keeps cropping up around the country. People object to developments of 600 houses (or whatever) being plonked in an area that is already far too oversubscribed for schools, doctors, public transport etc. Lack of public transport and facilities ends up driving more people into cars - and the surrounding roads are often already "full".

Development plans often say things like "and a creche will be built" or "and the road will be upgraded", but that kind of thing often comes 5-10 years after the houses are built, if they happen at all.

But like I said previously this is not a planning application we're talking about, it's a rezoning application. Dublin needs more residential & mixed use land. If you don't zone land to allow for people to build on where do you put the schools, creches, doctors that people need?

blanch152

IAmTheReign wrote: »

But like I said previously this is not a planning application we're talking about, it's a rezoning application. Dublin needs more residential & mixed use land. If you don't zone land to allow for people to build on where do you put the schools, creches, doctors that people need?

Exactly, I can't believe the excuses being made on this thread for the councillors dragging their heels.

I have said for years that the councils are the problem when it comes to housing, and this only adds to the evidence.

James Brown

IAmTheReign wrote: »

Of course it's light on detail. It's an application for rezoning, not for construction. When someone submits a panning application to build on the sites is when you expect details. If the concern was legitimately over what might get built there the planning stage is the time to raise those concerns.

Well the councillors seem to be under the impression that the rezoning should have more detail.

blanch152 wrote: »

Exactly, I can't believe the excuses being made on this thread for the councillors dragging their heels.

I have said for years that the councils are the problem when it comes to housing, and this only adds to the evidence.

Opinion on their decision is not defending or making excuses. Humans are far more nuanced than 'us and them'.

Jambonjunior

Bowie wrote: »

Well the councillors seem to be under the impression that the rezoning should have more detail.

How come it was good enough for the professional planners in Dublin?

I think the councillors just want to protect their NIMBY voter base.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Well the councillors seem to be under the impression that the rezoning should have more detail.



Opinion on their decision is not defending or making excuses. Humans are far more nuanced than 'us and them'.

Do you think that it is justified for councillors to indulge in NIMBYism and block the rezoning of sites suitable for housing?

IAmTheReign

Bowie wrote: »

Well the councillors seem to be under the impression that the rezoning should have more detail.



Opinion on their decision is not defending or making excuses. Humans are far more nuanced than 'us and them'.

Did you read some of the things the councillors said?

Cllr Catherine Stocker of the Social Democrats said her party could not support the rezoning of land with “no guarantee it will not be used for co-housing”, as there would be “no oversight whatsoever on what we will be giving the green light to”

Of course there will be oversight! That's what the planning application process is for!

blanch152

IAmTheReign wrote: »

Did you read some of the things the councillors said?



Of course there will be oversight! That's what the planning application process is for!

Soc Dem councillor doesn't understand the democratic process? Wrong party, should be in Sinn Fein.

mikep

IAmTheReign wrote: »

Did you read some of the things the councillors said?



Of course there will be oversight! That's what the planning application process is for!

It's really quite astounding reading some of the comments from the councilors re the planning process...

It makes it hard to listen to all the outrage about the lack of housing when this kind of mentality exists.

I'm close to giving up hope for this country.

Jambonjunior

The Social Democrats voted yesterday to block housing in Dublin. I can't ever vote for them again.

Idbatterim

Separately, the councillors have voted to seek leave to take a judicial review of An Bord Pleanála’s decision to grant permission for more than 650 apartments in blocks up to nine storeys tall beside St Anne’s Park in Raheny, Dublin.

from that irish times article, what a FCUKING farce, the councils here are the prime culprits behind this crisis. If the local residents here want to live with low rise and peace and quiet, I suggest they more there from dublin...

Good point as well made early on. they are just going to have to start investing more in facilities to support this housing and stop wasting it on welfare hikes etc...

there is this bull**** about not knowing what the lands will be zoned for and density. Firstly I would say, it should be housing only, unless the site isnt suitable for it. Secondly, we have ABP to make decisions on planning etc, heights. If DCC had their way, they'd only permit houses and have dublin the size of LA in ten years!