Sonos Home Setup

Sponsorgate

Hi All,

Need advice on how best to setup my speakers please

Bare with me as i try to best describe my needs & any advice would be greatly appreciated

Ideally would like this kinda setup ( see attached photo)

         - 4 in-ceiling speakers in TV room ( 5.5 metres x 5 metres) Vaulted ceiling
         - 4 in-ceiling speakers in kitchen/dining room (7 metres x 5 metres) Vaulted ceiling
         - 2 speakers for the outside patio
          -4 in-ceiling speakers in the sitting room ( 6 metre x 5metres) Standard ceiling height (room at the top of the photo)


So in total 14 speakers. I would like all amps etc in the attic above the study ( the room with the desk in the photo). So that is going to be the hub. Currently doing 1st fix electrics on house so I can ask electritian to run speaker wire to each speaker which would be more reliable than wi-fi right ?

TV room - speakers would be for TV mainly but would like to be able to switch to music/radio also & would like to be able to sync them with the speakers in the kitchen & patio so all 10 speakers would be playing the same thing if needed

Ideally I could govern all this from 1 IOS device . Sorry i know this is complicated and its going to be expensive but I want to gauge now as now is the best time to put such a system in while the build is on-going


Given info above whats the best way to work it? Sonos amps i was looking at but would i be correct in saying I would need 4 of them for this setup? I'm guessing there is a more economical way

Any advice would be appreciated
Thanks
Sponsorgate

Richersounds.ie: Kenny

Sponsorgate wrote: »

Hi All,

Need advice on how best to setup my speakers please

Bare with me as i try to best describe my needs & any advice would be greatly appreciated

Ideally would like this kinda setup ( see attached photo)

         - 4 in-ceiling speakers in TV room ( 5.5 metres x 5 metres) Vaulted ceiling
         - 4 in-ceiling speakers in kitchen/dining room (7 metres x 5 metres) Vaulted ceiling
         - 2 speakers for the outside patio
          -4 in-ceiling speakers in the sitting room ( 6 metre x 5metres) Standard ceiling height (room at the top of the photo)


So in total 14 speakers. I would like all amps etc in the attic above the study ( the room with the desk in the photo). So that is going to be the hub. Currently doing 1st fix electrics on house so I can ask electritian to run speaker wire to each speaker which would be more reliable than wi-fi right ?

TV room - speakers would be for TV mainly but would like to be able to switch to music/radio also & would like to be able to sync them with the speakers in the kitchen & patio so all 10 speakers would be playing the same thing if needed

Ideally I could govern all this from 1 IOS device . Sorry i know this is complicated and its going to be expensive but I want to gauge now as now is the best time to put such a system in while the build is on-going


Given info above whats the best way to work it? Sonos amps i was looking at but would i be correct in saying I would need 4 of them for this setup? I'm guessing there is a more economical way

Any advice would be appreciated
Thanks
Sponsorgate

Hi Sponsorgate.

Thanks for the email.

For the TV room.
If the amps are located in the attic you would need to (Depending on lengths) run an optical cable from the TV to the back of the amp running the speakers in this room.
What distance would they be apart?

The other rooms are pretty straight forward with only speaker cable required between the speakers and amps. (We would not have any WiFi speaker options and all Sonos products use speaker cable for connect the speakers).

A Sonos amp ideally will run 2 pairs (4 speakers) with no issues. Adding more than this can cause the unit to be over driven and could cause issues.
This would mean you would require 4 as you suspected. 
The Sonos amp are priced at £599. I could offer them at £560 each. Total would be £2240

For the inceiling speakers you could use either the Moniotor Audio proc 65 which we have a special on at the moment. They retail at £69 Each but we have a pack of 5 listed for £199, making them £39.80 each.
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-13640-monitor-audio-pro65-trade-5-pack-in-ceiling-speakers-6-1-2-driver.aspx
12 of these would come in at £477.60

If you wanted something a little better there is the Monitor Audio C165. There are more expensive but do have the better sound quality.
Priced at £114.95 each. I could discount these down to £83 each. Total for 12 would be £996
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-202897-monitor-audio-monitor-audio-c165-in-ceiling-speaker-each.aspx

For the 2 outdoor speakers with have the Monitor Audio Climate 50's which are weather proof. Retailing at £275 per pair. Again I could discount these down to £210
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-11198-monitor-audio-climate-50-black-black-outdoor-speakers-per-pair.aspx

There is another option for the 4 Sonos Amps.
Denon have Heos which is the same idea as Sonos.
They make the Heos Drive HS2 which is a 4 Zone amplifier and one unit would run all the speakers and splits into 4 Zones via the Heos app.
You can also add further Heos products as time goes by.
It retails at £1999. I could offer one of these for £1900
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-12959-heos-drive-hs2-multi-room-audio-amplifier.aspx

If you require speaker cable we have Symphony 100 which I could offer a 99p per meter.
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-900187-cambridge-audio-symphony-100-speaker-cable-per-metre.aspx

Let me know your thoughts.

Sponsorgate

Thanks so much for the info. I will take a look & see which best suits my needs

For the TV room, what type of optical cable do I need to run?( so i can let my electrician know) & how does that connect to the TV?
I am already running a HDMI cable to the TV from the attic & its approx 40 metres. That HDMI is soley will be for the Sky box which will also be in the attic.
Can i switch easily to playing spotify in the TV room when TV is off ? This can be done through the app right?

Regards having 4 amps , can i have the same music playing on 3 of the 4 amps for example? So would like to have kitchen(1 amp) , tv room(1 amp) and patio (1 amp) all being able to play the same music at the same time? Can you do this on Sonos via the app?

This would be a big deal for me if its not possible.
Is this possible on Heos do you know as this would swing me to use Heos?

I really appreciate this info as unable to pin down exact info by just googling

Thanks
SponsorGate

Richersounds.ie: Kenny

Hey SponsorGate.

40 meters is a very very long run for any type of cable.
A 40 meter HDMI is more than twice the recommend length before you start to lose quality. Is the HDMI he has ran in an active one which would help a tiny bit.?
Lengths of this distance would usually be done via CAT6 and converted to HDMI at each end. This way will cut out most of the image quality loss.
I would also worry you would get a delay between the video and the audio with 40 meter HDMI and a 40 meter Optical.
We would not stock an optical of that length unfortunately. I think our longest is around 12.5 meters and its about £185.

The easy fix for the optical is that if the SkyBox will be in the same room as the amps then you can just go from the back of the SkyBox via optical into the amp. Again I would worry that this could still product lag between the image on the TV and the sound from the speakers due the the long HDMI run.
QED do a little 1 meter one for £19.95
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-12184-qed-profile-optical-1m.aspx

If you wanted to rethink the long HDMI run you could switch to these Blustream extender kits:
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-203141-blustream-hex70b-kit-hdbaset-extender-set.aspx

You can also use HDMI Matrix which would send the image and sound to different TV's using the CAT6.
Something like the Bluestream 
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-13692-blustream-c44-kit-4-zone-av-matrix-kit.aspx

Back to the Sonos products. You can use each amp separately and play different audio through each our group them altogether and have them all playing the same thing.
Each amp can be controlled from the app.

This would be the same for the Heos products.

Hope this explains things a bit.

Any questions please let me know.

Sponsorgate

Great info , thanks again Kenny

So I have run RUIPRO hdmi already to each TV point.I understand HDMI loosing quality over distance but I have fingers crossed that it may work as I know these HDMI'S are one of the best at carrying it over long distances. Running 2 x CAT6 & coaxial cable to each TV point also so that will be plan B with the blustream if the HDMI doesn't work. Thats good to know

For the optical as you explained above, I had not thought of that , so yeah that will work perfectly with both systems in the attic.

Just one thing regards to that, if say I want to use youtube app on my smart TV, sound going through the sky box wont work will it as its a different system so to speak? Am i better off using a coaxial cable to transfer the sound as it will do for both sky & inbuilt apps/android box on the TV then?

Going to a little more research on the differences between HEOS & SONOS

When I have decided what I am going with , I will PM you to discuss if that ok

Thanks again
SponsorGate

Richersounds.ie: John

SponsorGate,

just to put my 2pence worth in - I would really strongly agree with Kenny - we would strongly recommend against ANY 40M HDMI run no matter what cable you are using.

We would really recommend that you use HDBaseT technology ( ie Blustream or similar manufacturer) if you want to move and especially control HDMI and HDMI sources over long distances - HDMI is realistically only certified to 15 Metres and bitter experience has taught me that you are potentially looking at multiple issues using 40M HDMI cables including dropout / delay / latency issues and especially handshake issues.

If you use a HDMI MATRIX with HDBaseT or just TX/Rx HDBaseT individual dongles - these problems are typically avoided and as an additional benefit the signal is run along standard Cat6 data cable.

If you need any further advice please feel free to mail me directly at johnmc@richersounds.ie or any of the guys will be able to assist,

ATVB,

John Mc & Crew  

Sponsorgate

Thanks John,

I have looked at the diagram provided but still not 100% sure how this works

Is one CAT6 cable running to the TV point sufficient for the setup using the below box?

https://www.richersounds.ie/p-13692-blustream-c44-kit-4-zone-av-matrix-kit.aspx

With this box sitting in the attic, i just plug one end of the CAT6 cable into this box & the other end, which is running to TV will be converted at the TV point with one of those receiver box. From the receiver box you plug a short HDMI to the tv then? These receiver box's will tuck neatly behind TV yes? as this is one of the main reasons running such a system so there will be no cables/box's around TV

Thanks
SponsorGate

Richersounds.ie: John

SG,

yep you can run the system over a single CAT6 for each screen and that carries 4K Picture / Audio and remote commands ( critical!) 

To simplify - check the HMXL44 Matrix here:
https://www.blustream.co.uk/hmxl44-kit-v2-hdcp22

( There is even a Video) 

or if you want to make it even easier to understand the concept look at a single HDBaseT send / receive ( TX/RX) combo here and it will really become clear:

https://www.blustream.co.uk/hex70cskit?rq=hex70

This has 2 elements - one receives the HDMI input say from your Sky box - you plug a CAT6 into it and bring the CAT6 to your Screen up to 40 meters away ( you can get longer runs but this model is certified to 40mtrs) / at the screen end you plug the CAT6 into the RX receiver module and then a short HDMI from the RX module into the screen, the RX module behind the screen does not even need a power socket as the power is supplied down the CAT6 from the TX module.

If you want to go with the matrix it essentially allows you to add more sources and switches those sources to multiple outputs - no messy wires / no multiple sources / easy control -  it's the way forward!

ATVB,

John Mc & Crew
  

Sponsorgate

Great John, will be in contact over next few weeks  when i have this all decided as to what brands etc I will go with

Thanks to you & the team for such great info

Cheers
SponsorGate

Richersounds.ie: DavidS

Sponsorgate wrote: »

Great John, will be in contact over next few weeks  when i have this all decided as to what brands etc I will go with

Thanks to you & the team for such great info

Cheers
SponsorGate

Hi SponsorGate,

No problem at all, keep us posted and if you've any other queries don't hesitate to drop us a post!

Kind regards

David

Sponsorgate

Regards Speaker Wire ( see attached)

As approx 4 of my speakers will be over the 24 meter run (approx 30/40 metre) , will I need the 14 gauge for these do you think? Is this similar in price?

Also another question regards being able to have my TV grouped on the Sonos app.

My understanding, if I have this guy https://www.richersounds.ie/p-13692-blustream-c44-kit-4-zone-av-matrix-kit.aspx in the attic, do i connect this box to the Sonos amp that will be governing the TV room(which is also in the attic) via an optical cable? so that when I'm sitting in the TV room, listening to music on the in-ceiling speakers & then to decide I want to turn on the TV & want the TV sound on the in-ceiling speakers? Or whats the best way to achieve this?

Will a CAT 6 cable running from the blustream box to the Sonos amp , allow me to achieve this?

Thanks
SponsorGate

Richersounds.ie: John

SG,

apologies for the delay getting back to you - I just spotted this now ( I'm not on Boards as much as I would like these days) .. 

You will have to treat the Video and Audio separately.

The Audio is routed via your Sonos and the Video is routed via the HDMI matrix - ie for the best quality you will take the optical output from your SKY box into your Sonos amp optical input ( you could take a line level output from the HDMI matrix into the Sonos Amp but you would drop quality 

Specifically with regard to TV Audio via Sonos - you may / will find that you have a lip-sync delay issue if you have a remote Sonos Amp - unfortunately there is very little that you can do about this as the Sonos has a fairly high latency. 

In terms of speaker cable - far less fussy, even for a 24 meter run you could still run Symphony 100:
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-900187-cambridge-audio-symphony-100-speaker-cable-per-metre.aspx

However you really should run an low smoke Zero Halogen cable especially if you are running the cable in ceiling voids:
https://www.richersounds.ie/p-200819-cambridge-audio-ultra-micro-install-low-smoke-zero-halogen-speaker-cable-per-metre.aspx

ATVB,

John Mc & Crew 

Sponsorgate

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hi All,[/font]

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]Could I get a quote on the below please (in euro incl delivery to the Republic)[/font]

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 x Sonos Amps[/font]
[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]https://www.richersounds.ie/p-203836-sonos-amp-black-inc-6-year-guarantee-network-amplifier.aspx[/font]

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]5 x In-ceiling Sonos pairs (white) [/font]
[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-203878-sonos-in-ceiling-by-sonance-pr-ceiling-speakers-per-pair.aspx[/font]

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]4 x Monitor Audio C165 single (white)[/font]
https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-202897-monitor-audio-c165-in-ceiling-speaker-each.aspx

Thanks & look forward to hearing from you. Please PM me
SponsorGate

Richersounds.ie: John

Hi Sponsorgate,

apologies for the delay getting back to you.

We can do the following for yuo:

3 * SONOS AMPS
5 *  Pairs SONOS in-Ceiling Speakers
4 * Monitor Audio C165 ( units)

Retail is £4751 / 5418€

We can do a bundle deal at £4299 / 4779€

Stock on the C165 is always good - at the moment there are severe stock issues on SONOS AMPS and SONOS speakers - but we are starting to see some reasonable stock filter through over the next few weeks - no pressure but do allow a little time if you are time constrained..

Thanks again and keep us posted if we can assist in any way,

ATVB,

John Mc & Crew

Sponsorgate

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hi John & team[/font]

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]I am also looking at TV's(65 inch) & would appreciate a bit of advice. I like the LG tvs (really like their interace & ease of use) particularly the OLED c9 or CX but the room its going in is very bright room. Do you think I would be better off going with a LG nanocell? Main things we watch are Sport(UHD) , Netflix(4K)& tv on Sky box(HD). Any advice appreciated[/font]

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]Any deals on LG tvs for Black friday ? (would be adding TV to the bundle above)
[/font]


[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks[/font]
[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]SponsorGate
[/font]

Richersounds.ie: DavidS

Sponsorgate wrote: »

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hi John & team[/font]

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]I am also looking at TV's(65 inch) & would appreciate a bit of advice. I like the LG tvs (really like their interace & ease of use) particularly the OLED c9 or CX but the room its going in is very bright room. Do you think I would be better off going with a LG nanocell? Main things we watch are Sport(UHD) , Netflix(4K)& tv on Sky box(HD). Any advice appreciated[/font]

[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]Any deals on LG tvs for Black friday ? (would be adding TV to the bundle above)
[/font]


[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks[/font]
[font=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]SponsorGate
[/font]

Hi Sponsorgate,

Thanks for the post!

The LG OLEDs are incredible, I have an older B8 myself and it's still head and shoulders above the LED TVs. In terms of brightness the Nanocell would be brighter but to be honest it's not by a massive amount. We have OLEDs on display next to QLEDs and LEDs on a bright shopfloor and they still stand out next to them.

A lot of our Black Friday prices have already gone live but i don't know if they will be dropping again. We have a 14 Day price promoise though so if you do buy and the price goes down within 14 Days we can refund the difference!

Let me know what you think!

Kind regards

David