Buying the cheapest of the cheap - what to look for

Hi folks,

This might seem a tad generic of a thread to make, but bear with me

I live in a housing estate, i am about 70k away from clearing the mortgage. I'm 33 soon and make about 40k a year.

I hate urban life. I live in an area with more than it's share of issues, so the pipe dream of sorts, is to get out and get to a detached house in the middle of nowhere. Peace and quiet.


However, although I have viewed houses in the past with a friend looking for one, I'm used to being in a council maintained house estate. In other words, I've never had to think about water services, ESB connections, waste-water etc. etc.

So what I'm wondering is, is anyone able to give a 'utilities for idiots' kind of a guide to getting started on what to look for?

For example, lets say I bought something like this (random example, but along the lines of what Im talking about):




or






I have been through the experience of building an extension on the house (didn't DIY it, but was hands-on enough). I could deal with the basic visible and physical stuff like drainage, slabbing, skimming, installing radiators, lighting, roof, etc. it's all fairly straight forward, but it's the other stuff that throws me off (as above, water supply, waste water, electricity supply, etc.)

Does anyone have an idea on what you should be looking at for these (in terms of cost, or what to actually look at when you're viewing such a house).

I know there are things called group water schemes and that kinda stuff, but I've no actual knowledge or experience of them other than knowing that they're called a group water scheme.

The idea would be that I could buy some run down heap of sh/te in the middle of nowhere, and tick away at it over the years whilst i work on my mortgage and know that it'd be there to retire to. It wouldn't be something I'd be planning to sell on, or 'flip', or profit from, for example.

Also, any other info on buying these kinda properties is always appreciated, of course (other than the usual, 'get to know the area/neighbours' or obvious stuff like that).

Any advice or help is much appreciated. Just trying to find my feet by asking the basic questions


Cheers.

Bigus

Go for it !
Also with Tesla powerwalls and low energy LEDs and the like, you mightn’t need an expensive grid connection which would save on certification costs, also you’d have enough experience from the extension experience to take on the job.

c.p.w.g.w

Bigus wrote: »

Go for it !
Also with Tesla powerwalls and low energy LEDs and the like, you mightn’t need an expensive grid connection which would save on certification costs, also you’d have enough experience from the extension experience to take on the job.

Is the Powerwall just a power storage system?

Muahahaha

Water, waste and electricity obviously the big ones when buying a derelict property so check out the costs of all those before bidding. AFAIK there is new regs around septic tanks so that would probably be the biggest cost. You're really just buying a site with these properties as they need a lot of money spent on them.

cute geoge

A house like the one above is a money pit ,buy a nice half acre site and build a ordinary 3/4 bed bungalow.This will be cheaper in the long run with better insulation and spec .The only advantage of buying the likes of a derelict house ,you could leave one wall stand ,bull doze the remainder for trunking .With one old wall standing it is straight forward with planing afaik !!

Cuddlesworth

Is the plan to do this to learn or for something to do? Or to think you would get a bargain? I only ask because I see that "house" and I think money pit.

Graham

cute geoge wrote: »

With one old wall standing it is straight forward with planing afaik !!

I thought a completely new planning application was necessary to bring a derelict property back into use.

cameramonkey

cute geoge wrote: »

A house like the one above is a money pit ,buy a nice half acre site and build a ordinary 3/4 bed bungalow.This will be cheaper in the long run with better insulation and spec .The only advantage of buying the likes of a derelict house ,you could leave one wall stand ,bull doze the remainder for trunking .With one old wall standing it is straight forward with planing afaik !!

I dont think it would be straight forward with planning , very little is.

cute geoge

cute geoge wrote: »

A house like the one above is a money pit ,buy a nice half acre site and build a ordinary 3/4 bed bungalow.This will be cheaper in the long run with better insulation and spec .The only advantage of buying the likes of a derelict house ,you could leave one wall stand ,bull doze the remainder for trunking .With one old wall standing it is straight forward with planing afaik !!

I wouldn't be against that, but ive no idea on the costs of building a typical bungalow in Ireland.


Assuming you have a little site ready to go, how much is a typical 3 bed bungalow going to set you back to build it? 20k? 200k? :o

SmartinMartin

If you get a place where you could actually live while you renovate it,
and you're willing to learn as you go and do a lot of the work yourself over time, I'd say go for it.
Try to find one as near as possible to services.

SmartinMartin

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Loads of stuff on YouTube, search for Renovate old Irish cottage.
I like this lad. Few skills, learns a he goes along. Worth watching a few of his vids:
https://youtu.be/cmHlpl7BVyM
Here's my one. I put a new roof on it recently to keep it intact. A bad roof is the quickest way to kill an old building.

Can I ask what your experience is? Are you handy yourself, or were you going in blind? (also did you move from urban to rural, or is that a cottage you bought across the road from your own house ).




Cheers for any insight here

awec

The two gaffs in the OP are likely to be absolute money pits IMO. Quicker and cheaper to flatten and start again.

The top one has absolutely no redeeming features worth retaining. The second one is a shed with windows.

cameramonkey

cameramonkey wrote: »

I dont think it would be straight forward with planning , very little is.

I'd assume that if you weren't messing around too much with what was there, then you'd have very few issues?


I've seen many an old cottage have an 'extension' built onto it, that's about 5 times the size of the cottage and has glass walls etc. which is the exact opposite to the look of the original cottage (which is barely recognisable by that point) so I presume planning isn't the biggest issue in the world with this kinda thing?

awec

awec wrote: »

The two gaffs in the OP are likely to be absolute money pits IMO. Quicker and cheaper to flatten and start again.

The top one has absolutely no redeeming features worth retaining. The second one is a shed with windows.

But sure every house is a shed with windows. It depends what you're looking for out of it.


My presumption is that by virtue of these already existing and being built, you get to have some of the 'invisible' work done for you (water supply, etc). Actually renovating them is neither here nor there; you're buying a pile of bricks in the shape of a house no matter what you do.

bigroad

I think maybe to find a place which is still connected to services with a decent working septic tank job.
Some of those old cottages have crap foundation's so that would have to be looked at.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

But sure every house is a shed with windows. It depends what you're looking for out of it.


My presumption is that by virtue of these already existing and being built, you get to have some of the 'invisible' work done for you (water supply, etc). Actually renovating them is neither here nor there; you're buying a pile of bricks in the shape of a house no matter what you do.

Not really. Those houses you're looking at will need a lot of money spent on them to bring them up to a standard sufficient for living in.

When you talk of retiring to it, when you're that age you'll not want to be moving into something that struggles to keep you warm and comfortable!

SmartinMartin

No matter what septic tank he has it would have to be upgraded to modern spec.

John Hutton

I have looked into this in some detail OP, I have flirted with buying somehwhere with an acre or so of land and trying the old self sufficient lifestyle, grow food etc and eventually try to be as off grid as possible eventually.

The only way I could make the finances work was to look at decent enough cottages in rural Ireland that required updating and renovation, not complete rebuilding.

Think a cottage that was lived in by someone's granny and everything is ancient and dated but it's actually livable and hooked up to services. You could live in it and do up a room at a time.

However, you would need to look at very rural ireland for this. If you look at Roscommon you can get some very decent properties for little money.

Rebuilding a cottage for me, within commuting distance of Dublin, is just beyond my budget. In very rural Ireland it's cheaper to buy something have decent you can update.

BobCobb

I keep an eye on daft for cheaper houses and there are a decent few which come up for between 50 and 75 thousand, often on an acre of land, which are in pretty reasonable looking condition, on the outside at least. They might still need some renovation work but not as much difficult or 'big' jobs. They might still need some planning approval if vacant for a few years (not sure on this) but again it could be easier to get than if buying a more derelict type house. These pop up in many counties all over the country.

riclad

You can buy a house in a rural area, 3bed , for less than the cost of building a house.
A 3 bed house cost,s 150-200k to build.
Don,t buy an old house without getting a survey,
structural survey cost,s 400 euro approx, this will lists all faults,
and the cost of repairs needed .
see great house revival on rte 1 tv.
New plaster is avaidable, looks identical to lime but has 10 times its propertys in terms of insulation energy effeciency.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6jn7og
its mentioned in this episode above.
it cost him about 80k in 2016 to renovate this house, rewiring, all walls replastered .
4storey large victorian house .
Its not completely finished yet.
it cost,s money to knock down a house.
Every old house is different .
size,condition etc saying knock down the house and build a new house is usually more expensive than fixing up the old house.
in certain area,s you would not be allowed to knock down the house.

Muahahaha

The other thing to think of if planning to spend your old age in a property like this is how isolated you could be.

Its one thing to be dreaming of an isolated life on an acre of land in the middle of nowhere when you are in your 40s or 50s; its a whole other thing when you're in your 70s and 80s and the nearest GP is 15 miles away, the nearest hospital 50 miles away and the optician is saying he wont certify your driving license because your eyesight doesnt pass the test. Then that kind of isolated living turns from a dream into a nightmare and you'd have to sell up and buy again to be close to services and amenities.

beggars_bush

an awful lot of councils will not let you demolish the existing building

be warned

beggars_bush

there are houses for sale in the likes of Longford town which has a railway line to Dublin and will have a dual carriageway towards Dublin within 10 years
the houses are going for 130,000 and you could move into them tomorrow.

living in the country is fine.
except you rarely meet your neighbours as they zoom past in their cars, its not safe to walk along the roads and you are a long way away from shops and social amenities

Ubbquittious

I have looked into this, have been to see houses costing 60 and 70k, old cottages and the like. The main thing to look out for would be dampness

Wiring, septic tank, utilities, all this craic can be overcome quite well by modern off the grid technology if nothing else works. Roof can be redone but if you have damp problems it can be very hard to rectify without knocking the building. Old cottages with stone walls will be OK if there is breathable render on it and the walls are sound but if there isn't or if it's been poorly done up or in a bad location where there is water seeping in the whole time it can be a proper night mare.

One place I been to had fecking green stuff protruding 1cm or more from the wall because the idiots built an extension right up against a cliff edge, water pouring down against the wall the whole time - the new owner would have little choice but to blow that extension out of it but then they are left with other problems like where to move the kitchen and bathroom to.

Another one to watch out for is 'done up' cottages. You'll have a nice looking interior all very smoothly finished but in reality it's a damp mouldy house that some cowboy builder has built a wooden box within. Once that wooden box starts to go you are in trouble. I lived in one such house and it cost me an absolute fortune to heat.

Other things that could cause bother is ceilings that are too low, flat roof extensions often with no insulation and leaking, poorly built extensions with the divide between the old house and new house leaking. My advice if you're going down the old cottage route is to take one that hasn't been f**d around with, no extensions, bare stone wall on the inside preferably and no plaster on the outside. This way you can see what you're dealing with. Chimneys are another one to check that they are not cracked, but once they're not you can put in a slinky for your stove and you should be OK

the_syco

The first one may be cost you €100k, after you knock the existing house first.

The neighbours may block any plans that you have for the 2nd one.

salonfire

Check you have 4G!

You won't have broadband, but check you have data coverage at least

Ubbquittious

salonfire wrote: »

Check you have 4G!

You won't have broadband, but check you have data coverage at least

You can always put up a long range wifi link, repeater, satellite or ditch a fibre or copper cable of your own if push comes to shove. This wouldn't even register on my list of priorities really. Mobile network operators are fickle auld bastards anyway. Some of my family were living near London and had great coverage until the operator decided to switch the local base station off, and left it switched off permanently.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

The neighbours may block any plans that you have for the 2nd one.

I dunno if I'm missing something there or not? What's the neighbours hyperlink about? Confused me a tad

macplaxton

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I dunno if I'm missing something there or not? What's the neighbours hyperlink about? Confused me a tad

It's a Street view link to the second derelict house in the OP and has a neighbouring house adjacent to it if you pan left.

christy G

Muahahaha wrote: »

The other thing to think of if planning to spend your old age in a property like this is how isolated you could be.

Its one thing to be dreaming of an isolated life on an acre of land in the middle of nowhere when you are in your 40s or 50s; its a whole other thing when you're in your 70s and 80s and the nearest GP is 15 miles away, the nearest hospital 50 miles away and the optician is saying he wont certify your driving license because your eyesight doesnt pass the test. Then that kind of isolated living turns from a dream into a nightmare and you'd have to sell up and buy again to be close to services and amenities.

Wow that's alot to think about haha I dont think people should be worrying about that your here for a good time not a long time. Enjoy life build a house of your dreams mot just settle like alot of people. get the car you want , go on holidays /travel . Dont be thinking like that. Nobody knows what the future holds so just enjoy the ride , i for one would not like to be in a nursing home if I do make it to that age that's no life .

Toyotafanboi

Two years ago we went a similar route.

Looked at lots of new build semi d's and the likes.

Ended up buying a 60's bungalow on a half acre site, didnt cost much less than a new build semi d in fairness, typical "bungalow bliss" type job. The house wasnt derelict, it was mostly intact. It hadn't really seen any maintainance or modernisation since it had been built and had been empty for a number of years since the owner passed away. No insulation, surface plumbing and wiring, septic tank, well, house was very overgrown etc.

We re wired, re plumbed, replastered inside, changed a few walls. Insulated under the floors, external walls, loft etc. New windows and doors, new a2w heat pump. Had ESB moved from surface to underground and connect to mains water and sewage. Added a modest extension for a decent kitchen and second bathroom. Total floor area still small, around 130 sq/m.

We done pretty much everything ourselves, had to pay an electrician for the rewire, a block layer to do the walls of the extension, a plasterer to finish the walls and a tiler to tile. FIL is a plumber so heating and plumbing was just cost of the parts and everything else was done ourselves, all manual labour, stripping, chasing, slabbing, roofing, insulating, woodwork etc.

Total cost on a very limited budget was approx €70k and that is for the bare naked house finished, not painted or furnished, not a light bulb fitted. House is B2 rated now so stand to get around €10k back from SEAI.

The site is still in a jock and it wasn't a bad site to begin with but decommissioning the septic tank, digging for mains water and sewage, ESB trench, trench for elec gates, garden lighting circuit, cement lorry for foundations, dropping off loads of blocks, roof tiles etc has wrecked the place. In all honesty there's probably another 5-7k in tidying the site up.

Irish water were actually very helpful with connections, but getting to them is your own expense and in terms of site visits and inspections they work at their own pace. ESB were helpful too but also very much at their own pace and all the work and cost is on you to get to their supply. Biggest issue we have is wifi, Virgin isn't passing us and there isn't a phone line nearby so we have had to use wireless yoke and it's a bit ****.

Mortgage was dicey too. We went with the EBS but they had no interest in mortgaging the house as it stood as they considered it uninhabitable, same with a few different banks. We had to show proof of funds and an approximated costing for renovations from various contractors and that was hard because we weren't going to use a contractor. They allowed us to add the renovation costs to the mortgage but only after works were complete and we had staged inspections with bank valuer etc. We didn't add the total renovation cost to the mortgage in the end but approx 50% of it.

Tl;dr

Great craic and delighted with the end result but never again, very testing physically, mentally, emotionally, financially. House has great character, nice bit if space and privacy but still not as "good" as a new build.

Them yokes in the OP, nice idea in theory but you'd want to have €150k+ readily available to make a stab at renovating them to any decent standard and be ready for them to consume you.