NEW 2020 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

whampiri

Nothing stopping you from starting now. The more practice, the better.

lucat

whampiri wrote: »

Nothing stopping you from starting now. The more practice, the better.

No I'm not able to practice daily for potentially weeks. Need to manage my time.

Cheeseplant

lucat wrote: »

No I'm not able to practice daily for potentially weeks. Need to manage my time.

I also wouldn't have the material to practice more than a few times. Never done the AP exams. Can anyone say if there is much difference between them and HEO/AO? Are we likely to see Top Connectix and Evergreen again??

BMHOPE

Very similar, esp maths but English for verbal analysis more complex, negative phrasing etc. throws you as difficult to skim read and usually more tabs, might be marketing and locations for eg. With similar info. But confuses you on which tab info is in.

bonerjams03

What would the application numbers be like?

I'm not trying to do a top x% of y calculation, just curious to see how many people could have applied.

Caip79

if anyone can recommend any practice websites i’d be grateful

Gadgetman99

bonerjams03 wrote: »

What would the application numbers be like?

I'm not trying to do a top x% of y calculation, just curious to see how many people could have applied.

It's a well paid Senior Management position it's safe to assume thousands and possibly more due to those out of work or at risk of losing their jobs due to Covid. The extended deadline would have helped increase the numbers too.

In the end it's just a guesstimate but alot.

Cheeseplant

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

It's a well paid Senior Management position it's safe to assume thousands and possibly more due to those out of work or at risk of losing their jobs due to Covid. The extended deadline would have helped increase the numbers too.

In the end it's just a guesstimate but alot.

But would there? It was advertised on 6th March before any restrictions or major job losses. Perhaps it slipped under the radar for some. I know several people in my Dept weren't bothered applying as an internal comp was expected and the thoughts of the online interviews turned them off. Also many i spoke to didn't think anyone would be taken on the panel so that was another reason they weren't ar**d.

It might be (reasonably) well paid, but it's not as well paid as private sectors jobs with similar levels of responsibility. I know responsibility is very dependent on Dept/Division etc but in the main.

Gadgetman99

Cheeseplant wrote: »

But would there? It was advertised on 6th March before any restrictions or major job losses. Perhaps it slipped under the radar for some. I know several people in my Dept weren't bothered applying as an internal comp was expected and the thoughts of the online interviews turned them off. Also many i spoke to didn't think anyone would be taken on the panel so that was another reason they weren't ar**d.

It might be (reasonably) well paid, but it's not as well paid as private sectors jobs with similar levels of responsibility. I know responsibility is very dependent on Dept/Division etc but in the main.

I know in my department every AO and HEO I've spoken to has applied for it. The AO programme on 30 ish thousand had over a thousand applicants between all the streams. The AP salary is over double an AO salary.

As much as I wish there wasn't there has to be a lot of applicants.

dee75

From recollection, the 2016 AP competition had just over 3,000 applications. No clue how many applied for the 2018 comp.

Brera

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

I know in my department every AO and HEO I've spoken to has applied for it. The AO programme on 30 ish thousand had over a thousand applicants between all the streams. The AP salary is over double an AO salary.

As much as I wish there wasn't there has to be a lot of applicants.

I wonder would most have them have applied for the interdepartmental stream or would they have applied for both streams.

Gadgetman99

Brera wrote: »

I wonder would most have them have applied for the interdepartmental stream or would they have applied for both streams.

Three streams if they are eligible, internal, inter dep and open. Three chances

Caranica

I wasn't able to apply in the end as my laptop does not use Windows/Mac operating systems so was not able to access the dynamic pdf application form. I have Adobe Acrobat but the form would not open.

Couldn't get through to PAS on the phone. I enlisted the help of friends with the operating systems needed but they weren't able to get it for me as an editable pdf.

At a time when libraries and internet cafes etc are closed, the process was discriminatory and unfair.

Gadgetman99

Caranica wrote: »

I wasn't able to apply in the end as my laptop does not use Windows/Mac operating systems so was not able to access the dynamic pdf application form. I have Adobe Acrobat but the form would not open.

Couldn't get through to PAS on the phone. I enlisted the help of friends with the operating systems needed but they weren't able to get it for me as an editable pdf.

At a time when libraries and internet cafes etc are closed, the process was discriminatory and unfair.

I completely sympathise with you, they've been using the dynamic pdf for at least 2\3 years tho only going by my own experience. Have you never applied to other competitions before that had the dynamic pdf?

Cheeseplant

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

I know in my department every AO and HEO I've spoken to has applied for it. The AO programme on 30 ish thousand had over a thousand applicants between all the streams. The AP salary is over double an AO salary.

As much as I wish there wasn't there has to be a lot of applicants.

Really? My my dept must be more lazy and pessimistic
I understand the AO applicants, 30K is decent enough for a graduate job IMO, although I know lots of applicants wouldn't be recent graduates- I applied myself as a way out of my current stream.
I'm still hoping for a few thousand.. and that the internal competition is advertised (it was in preparation so there is a chance, albeit small).

Brera

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Really? My my dept must be more lazy and pessimistic
I understand the AO applicants, 30K is decent enough for a graduate job IMO, although I know lots of applicants wouldn't be recent graduates- I applied myself as a way out of my current stream.
I'm still hoping for a few thousand.. and that the internal competition is advertised (it was in preparation so there is a chance, albeit small).

30K is definitely decent enough for a graduate job starting out especially when you factor in the civil service perks like flexi-leave etc

gmisk

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Really? My my dept must be more lazy and pessimistic
I understand the AO applicants, 30K is decent enough for a graduate job IMO, although I know lots of applicants wouldn't be recent graduates- I applied myself as a way out of my current stream.
I'm still hoping for a few thousand.. and that the internal competition is advertised (it was in preparation so there is a chance, albeit small).

I thought the AO scale started at 43?
AP the normal scale starts at 67ish.

I would expect a large number of applicants they had pretty huge numbers for the last AP comp.
I have been in AP role for about 6 months, the whole not clocking in and out is a bit of a revelation! Doing a PMDs with a person is probably the worst part of the role.

I would also say I think there could be a moratorium on hiring en route pretty soon.

James2020App

Caip79 wrote: »

if anyone can recommend any practice websites i’d be grateful

Does anyone know of anywhere that similar tests can be done online, in order to improve for the upcoming tests?

Ravelleman

gmisk wrote: »

I thought the AO scale started at 43?

That's the elusive AO Higher pay scale.

Due to the pay restorations that allow you to skip increments four and seven, those that do end up on the AO Higher pay scale actually start at increment two, which is €48,484. If eligible via seniority, this occurs after four full years in the job, so I would imagine that relatively few ever see it.

It feels intensely bureaucratic to talk about Civil Service pay scales in such detail.

SFC1895

gmisk wrote: »

I thought the AO scale started at 43?
AP the normal scale starts at 67ish.

I would expect a large number of applicants they had pretty huge numbers for the last AP comp.
I have been in AP role for about 6 months, the whole not clocking in and out is a bit of a revelation! Doing a PMDs with a person is probably the worst part of the role.

I would also say I think there could be a moratorium on hiring en route pretty soon.

The starting salary for a new AO is €32,405. Massive jump- and incentive- for AOs.

Like yourself, have been an AP 6 months or so- enjoying the not clocking in! Didn't think PMDS was too bad although I only have 3 direct reports.

Cheeseplant

SFC1895 wrote: »

The starting salary for a new AO is €32,405. Massive jump- and incentive- for AOs.

Like yourself, have been an AP 6 months or so- enjoying the not clocking in! Didn't think PMDS was too bad although I only have 3 direct reports.

Did you not have PMDS reports in your last role? I have 4 currently. PMDS is fine in my experience, but there's always one who makes it more trying than it has it has to be :rolleyes: I've never been on flexi, not in admin stream, but I know that not all HEOs in our place are on flexi. Seems to be role dependant. Wouldn't fancy it myself.

Cheeseplant

gmisk wrote: »

I thought the AO scale started at 43?
AP the normal scale starts at 67ish.

I would expect a large number of applicants they had pretty huge numbers for the last AP comp.
I have been in AP role for about 6 months, the whole not clocking in and out is a bit of a revelation! Doing a PMDs with a person is probably the worst part of the role.

I would also say I think there could be a moratorium on hiring en route pretty soon.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a moratorium. Would expect PAS might run this competition slowly, panel people and extend the panel beyond the current expiry date (March 22?). Kicking myself for not apply to the last few AP comps and getting the first few fails out of the way!

SFC1895

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Did you not have PMDS reports in your last role? I have 4 currently. PMDS is fine in my experience, but there's always one who makes it more trying than it has it has to be :rolleyes: I've never been on flexi, not in admin stream, but I know that not all HEOs in our place are on flexi. Seems to be role dependant. Wouldn't fancy it myself.

As an AO in a Policy area, I only had small number of direct reports- one or two max at a time. PMDS in my new area is fine as the metrics and goals are more tangible.

I find not being on the flexi clock liberating in a sense.

Cheeseplant

SFC1895 wrote: »

As an AO in a Policy area, I only had small number of direct reports- one or two max at a time. PMDS in my new area is fine as the metrics and goals are more tangible.

I find not being on the flexi clock liberating in a sense.

Didn't realise AOs had flexi either. I was on it once in private sector many years ago. Can't say it's something I'd like to go back to. It's grand if you can work up time, not so useful if you have time obligations outside of work.

Caranica

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

I completely sympathise with you, they've been using the dynamic pdf for at least 2\3 years tho only going by my own experience. Have you never applied to other competitions before that had the dynamic pdf?

Once before but had a Windows PC at work. Operating off a Chromebook at home these days.

Gadgetman99

Caranica wrote: »

Once before but had a Windows PC at work. Operating off a Chromebook at home these days.

That definitely sucks, I had the same issue with my chrome book applying for a civil service role years ago I had to run around looking for an internet cafe I was on holidays at the time I never made that mistake again!

I hope you get to apply to other competitions as they come up to make up for not applying to this one. There's EO, AO and the odd HEO and AP competition advertised throughout the year for specific departments throughout the year so keep an eye on the Public Jobs website.

Gadgetman99

Cheeseplant wrote: »

Really? My my dept must be more lazy and pessimistic
I understand the AO applicants, 30K is decent enough for a graduate job IMO, although I know lots of applicants wouldn't be recent graduates- I applied myself as a way out of my current stream.
I'm still hoping for a few thousand.. and that the internal competition is advertised (it was in preparation so there is a chance, albeit small).

It's really bad timing but I'm not eligible for my intern or interdep competitions I'm raging as you said before there's a good chance of a moratorium.

kilburn

Stupid question sorry PMDS ?

Ap2020

kilburn wrote: »

Stupid question sorry PMDS ?

Performance Management and Development System. Essentially the performance and goal management system within the Civil Service (and parts of the public service). At the beginning of the year everyone sets their goals, with measurable KPIs, for the year - these also include learning and development goals. These are then monitored and everyone is rated (satisfactory or unsatisfactory) against them at mid-year and end-of-year.

Implementation of this system is excellent in some places, an afterthought in some others.

Cheeseplant

Gadgetman99 wrote: »

It's really bad timing but I'm not eligible for my intern or interdep competitions I'm raging as you said before there's a good chance of a moratorium.

I know, it's bad timing for you and probably many in your position. Keep your fingers crossed for the open. My own open panel in early 2009 was suspended due to moratorium and they started taking people from it kid 2010 up to 2012. All is not lost! We just have to get on it first!