Coronavirus- All schools to close? [MOD NOTE POST 346

RealJohn

blackbox wrote: »

They could bring forward the summer holidays and restart in July if all clear.

Important that kids don't end up with reduced education.

Teaching during July would make an awful mess of the exam marking, given that most of it happens in July, or at least partially in July. Putting the exams back probably isn’t an option either, since that would delay the start of the college year.

Also, I can’t speak for other schools, but if we closed, and then reopened in July, we’d get about 50% of students back.

rainbowtrout

Opening in the summer won't happen. It's not part of teachers' contracts, it interferes with the marking of the LC and JC which is dependent on teachers working in July.

While Ireland is in the early stages of coronavirus I don't think it will lead to a complete shutdown. Italy is a bit nuts but that's because nothing was really done about the initial cases that arose and the virus spread. All of Ireland's cases are related to travel to Italy and those that have it have been in contact with those who have been in Italy. Without travel to Italy over midterm break this country would be coronavirus free, as would many European countries I imagine.

I know only too well that cases can increase exponentially, but people are hyper vigilant at this stage. We've had fair warning (despite the decisions of the HSE/Government). The numbers will increase but I don't think we're going to see thousands of cases.

Granted China being communist and all can put a halt to people's movement fairly easily, but they have had 80,000 cases in a population of 1.5 billion. And the numbers are dropping every day. Today they've only had about 50. We are aware of how it's transmitted, the symptoms and what we can do to reduce the risk. So while we are seeing and hearing a little daftness in people buying industrial quantities of toilet roll and hand sanitizer, people have been taking precautions.

Millem

RealJohn wrote: »

Teaching during July would make an awful mess of the exam marking, given that most of it happens in July, or at least partially in July. Putting the exams back probably isn’t an option either, since that would delay the start of the college year.

Also, I can’t speak for other schools, but if we closed, and then reopened in July, we’d get about 50% of students back.

And 50% of the teachers too!!!!!!

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Opening in the summer won't happen. It's not part of teachers' contracts, it interferes with the marking of the LC and JC which is dependent on teachers working in July.

While Ireland is in the early stages of coronavirus I don't think it will lead to a complete shutdown. Italy is a bit nuts but that's because nothing was really done about the initial cases that arose and the virus spread. All of Ireland's cases are related to travel to Italy and those that have it have been in contact with those who have been in Italy. Without travel to Italy over midterm break this country would be coronavirus free, as would many European countries I imagine.

I know only too well that cases can increase exponentially, but people are hyper vigilant at this stage. We've had fair warning (despite the decisions of the HSE/Government). The numbers will increase but I don't think we're going to see thousands of cases.

Granted China being communist and all can put a halt to people's movement fairly easily, but they have had 80,000 cases in a population of 1.5 billion. And the numbers are dropping every day. Today they've only had about 50. We are aware of how it's transmitted, the symptoms and what we can do to reduce the risk. So while we are seeing and hearing a little daftness in people buying industrial quantities of toilet roll and hand sanitizer, people have been taking precautions.

We are in the stage now where people who have not travelled have been infected.

STB.

Millem wrote: »

We are in the stage now where people who have not travelled have been infected.

We are also at the stage whereby some schools are and were traveling to Italy on skiing trips. That'll certainly increase the numbers when they come back. If indeed they get back!

The HSE have made a dogs dinner of it. Instead of learning from the Italians mistake, we sat on our hands.

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

We are in the stage now where people who have not travelled have been infected.

Yes, and the numbers will rise because some of the people who travelled didn't self isolate etc, etc. But they will fall again. There are 200-500 deaths in Ireland each year from flu and no one bats an eyelid. Over 100 students were out sick for two weeks in my school (about a quarter of the school) with the horrible flu that was going around before Christmas and I'm sure other schools were similar and we got over it.

Germany has had 1040 cases identified up until today and so far no deaths. We are also a rural population which may actually help in this case in comparison to other European countries. Cases so far have been limited to three counties.

rainbowtrout

STB. wrote: »

We are also at the stage whereby some schools are and were traveling to Italy on skiing trips. That'll certainly increase the numbers when they come back. If indeed they get back!

The HSE have made a dogs dinner of it. Instead of learning from the Italians mistake, we sat on our hands.

A lot of schools would have travelled at midterm break so if they have coronavirus the symptoms would be showing by now. Many other schools have cancelled their trips and northern Italy has been quarantined by the Italian government since yesterday. So realistically that will probably mean cancellation of any pending school tour groups to the region.

STB.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yes, and the numbers will rise because some of the people who travelled didn't self isolate etc, etc. But they will fall again. There are 200-500 deaths in Ireland each year from flu and no one bats an eyelid. Over 100 students were out sick for two weeks in my school (about a quarter of the school) with the horrible flu that was going around before Christmas and I'm sure other schools were similar and we got over it.

Germany has had 1040 cases identified up until today and so far no deaths. We are also a rural population which may actually help in this case in comparison to other European countries. Cases so far have been limited to three counties.

Are you for real.

The coronavirus is nothing like the flu. Read that again and keep reading it.

Experts are now saying its not going to disappear when the summer arrives. Its a pandemic and its endemic. Its not going away. There are no drug available to treat it.

Once it hits the breeding grounds that are schools, then it will get out of control. There are cases that cannot be traced to Italy/China meaning its already in communities.

Rural lol. I don't know what your local hospital is like, but mine is already creaking under everyday use. I doubt they are ready for a pandemic.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

A lot of schools would have travelled at midterm break so if they have coronavirus the symptoms would be showing by now. Many other schools have cancelled their trips and northern Italy has been quarantined by the Italian government since yesterday. So realistically that will probably mean cancellation of any pending school tour groups to the region.

As of last week there were and are schools continuing with their skiing trips in Northern Italy. Because no one told them they couldn't. General cop on didn't seem to come into it, at parent or school level.

endacl

Paulramone66 wrote: »

Is it only a matter of time before all schoolc close?

First week of June for us.

Millem

STB. wrote: »

We are also at the stage whereby some schools are and were traveling to Italy on skiing trips. That'll certainly increase the numbers when they come back. If indeed they get back!

The HSE have made a dogs dinner of it. Instead of learning from the Italians mistake, we sat on our hands.

I totally agree with you! Bonkers....all group travel should be banned. I heard on Joe Duffy the reason why the trips were going ahead was because they couldn’t get their money back.

Treppen

JoeFritzl wrote: »

It's only a flu, why would we close the schools over this when they've always been open during flu season.

Flu is a vague term. There are mild ones, and ones that'll kill ya (Spanish flu killed 50 million).

It's not gonna kill most but it's not the kind of flu you want to spread... Plus ...flu mutates. Ya probably don't want a mutation incident either.

sullivlo

Millem wrote: »

I totally agree with you! Bonkers....all group travel should be banned. I heard on Joe Duffy the reason why the trips were going ahead was because they couldn’t get their money back.

My cousins school are due to go to Italy over Easter. They have cancelled it, but have been told that they will only get about 40% of the money spent back. Whether that will change with the new travel advisories I’m not sure, but the trip will not be going ahead.

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yes, and the numbers will rise because some of the people who travelled didn't self isolate etc, etc. But they will fall again. There are 200-500 deaths in Ireland each year from flu and no one bats an eyelid. Over 100 students were out sick for two weeks in my school (about a quarter of the school) with the horrible flu that was going around before Christmas and I'm sure other schools were similar and we got over it.

Germany has had 1040 cases identified up until today and so far no deaths. We are also a rural population which may actually help in this case in comparison to other European countries. Cases so far have been limited to three counties.

I hear you re the flu. I got my flu vaccine during mid term. I am more cautious of the coronavirus because I am pregnant. It is fear of the unknown for me....I know It won’t kill me but don’t know the effects it would have on the baby.

If I hear a sniff of anyone in my school having it I will not be going in.

daheff

JoeFritzl wrote: »

It's only a flu, why would we close the schools over this when they've always been open during flu season.

Because
A) it's more contagious than normal flu
there are more serious side effects than normal flu. Couple this with A above and you have too many people in hospital together needing scarce ICU beds/resources at the same time.
C) Mortality rate is higher than normal flu. Add this to A+B above and you have a serious potential problem
D) Normal flu has a vaccine which can be given to at risk groups, bringing down mortality rate. There isn't a vaccine for this flu.

Schools have potential to be a petri dish where students can bring in and spread the illness to a wide cross section of society....their family, grandparents who do school drop off/pick up/ teachers etc.

Computer Science Student

The problem with closing them is that there will not be a valid reason to reopen them anytime soon. So I believe they will wait until we reach a crisis level similar to Italy right now before they take those actions unfortunately.

r93kaey5p2izun

There are schools away on trips to Northern Italy as we speak. Totally irresponsible of them to have travelled, and absolutely reckless of parents to have sent their children. All school trips abroad should be stopped now by DES.

I think we may see widespread closures coming up to Easter. I'm very glad I'm not in a school every day anymore, where hygiene is appalling. And I have cancelled two weeks subbing I'm due to start on the 16th on the advice of my GP.

Millem

Joziah Few Butter wrote: »

There are schools away on trips to Northern Italy as we speak. Totally irresponsible of them to have travelled, and absolutely reckless of parents to have sent their children. All school trips abroad should be stopped now by DES.

I think we may see widespread closures coming up to Easter. I'm very glad I'm not in a school every day anymore, where hygiene is appalling. And I have cancelled two weeks subbing I'm due to start on the 16th on the advice of my GP.

Oh stop the hygiene in my place is beyond a joke at this stage. Lucky I am not in there every day.
I even bought washing up liquid for the staff room in the hope It might limit germs spreading.

STB.

sullivlo wrote: »

My cousins school are due to go to Italy over Easter. They have cancelled it, but have been told that they will only get about 40% of the money spent back. Whether that will change with the new travel advisories I’m not sure, but the trip will not be going ahead.

The question still has to be asked as to why some schools were up until the last few days ignoring all the information coming out of Italy.

Their cases shot up 50% in 24 hours a week or so ago, and its still going up and up.

They are now approaching the 8000 cases mark.

Their death toll rose from 133 to 366, in ONE day. Much like Ireland they were of the "sure it'll be grand" attitude. No chance of containment for them now.

Treppen

Millem wrote: »

I hear you re the flu. I got my flu vaccine during mid term. I am more cautious of the coronavirus because I am pregnant. It is fear of the unknown for me....I know It won’t kill me but don’t know the effects it would have on the baby.

If I hear a sniff of anyone in my school having it I will not be going in.

Missus caught swine flu from me a week before she went into labour. Worked out ok after 3 months subsequently, but baby had serious respiratory problems as soon as he came out! Twas touch and go at times.

I definitely caught it from a student who was forced to go to school by parents… student was fainting/delirious/sweating etc, each day the parents (both working in medicine!) refused to collect and insisted on dropping him off every morning.

rainbowtrout

STB. wrote: »

Are you for real.

The coronavirus is nothing like the flu. Read that again and keep reading it.

Experts are now saying its not going to disappear when the summer arrives. Its a pandemic and its endemic. Its not going away. There are no drug available to treat it.

Once it hits the breeding grounds that are schools, then it will get out of control. There are cases that cannot be traced to Italy/China meaning its already in communities.

Rural lol. I don't know what your local hospital is like, but mine is already creaking under everyday use. I doubt they are ready for a pandemic.



As of last week there were and are schools continuing with their skiing trips in Northern Italy. Because no one told them they couldn't. General cop on didn't seem to come into it, at parent or school level.

I never said it was like the flu. I was comparing them in terms of infection rates.

The vast majority of people who have died from coronavirus already had underlying health issues. There are probably going to be people in Ireland who die from coronavirus but for the vast majority it will effect them much like the flu does, they will be dosed for a week or two and then go back to normal. Many of those will remain at home for two weeks and not be admitted to hospital unless they have underlying health conditions or their symptoms worsen.

We didn't need experts to tell us that it won't disappear with the summer, the dogs on the street could have told you that. The fact that it had infected people in vastly different parts of the world, experiencing different climates and seasons would have told you that.

Cases that aren't traced to Italy/China are called community transmission, it means they have been in contact with someone who caught it from someone who was in one of those places, mainly Italy in this case.

Note: the first case of coronavirus was detected in China in December. There are direct flights to China from Ireland, yet we didn't get any until we had people travelling to Italy for the midterm break/school tour season.

Don't know why you are laughing at the rural comment, we have the lowest population density in Europe and are heavily reliant on cars for transport. We don't have the same mass transit set ups that other European/Asian countries have. Ever tried driving around Galway at 8:30 on a weekday morning?

byhookorbycrook

Many schools have children and teachers who are immuno-compromised. This isn’t remotely like a flu . We have vaccines for flu and some immunity due to exposure to different strains . Covid- 19 is a whole new ballgame .

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Voices for Teachers don't appear to be saying much about this but it's all my colleagues are talking about. Everyone has somebody who is at risk of severe symptoms or death. Two cases of community transmission in Cork but all schools around CUH and The Bons are still open. That's verging on 13 -15 schools and three colleges.

Millem

Treppen wrote: »

Missus caught swine flu from me a week before she went into labour. Worked out ok after 3 months subsequently, but baby had serious respiratory problems as soon as he came out! Twas touch and go at times.

I definitely caught it from a student who was forced to go to school by parents… student was fainting/delirious/sweating etc, each day the parents (both working in medicine!) refused to collect and insisted on dropping him off every morning.

That is awful and so scary for you both.
There has been less than 20 babies born now to mothers who have the coronavirus but they all got it in the third trimester. I am not due till the end of August.

Doesn’t surprise me re parents....we have a fair few like that in our place! Unbelievable

r93kaey5p2izun

I did two days subbing on Thursday and Friday (enough to keep my pension and confirm for me that schools are taking absolutely zero precautions), and yes, it was all anyone talked about. But the overall opinion was it'll be grand and there's nothing to worry about. There were some very vocal statements about anyone concerned being hysterical, though some were evidently quietly concerned and afraid to speak up. The school trip to Spain is still planned to go ahead. There was no soap on the toilets and when I asked about stepping up the surface cleaning as per HSE advice to schools I got blank looks. Not somewhere I could spend two weeks over the next month so they'll have to find another sub.

rainbowtrout

Joziah Few Butter wrote: »

There are schools away on trips to Northern Italy as we speak. Totally irresponsible of them to have travelled, and absolutely reckless of parents to have sent their children. All school trips abroad should be stopped now by DES.

I think we may see widespread closures coming up to Easter. I'm very glad I'm not in a school every day anymore, where hygiene is appalling. And I have cancelled two weeks subbing I'm due to start on the 16th on the advice of my GP.

Joziah Few Butter wrote: »

I did two days subbing on Thursday and Friday (enough to keep my pension and confirm for me that schools are taking absolutely zero precautions), and yes, it was all anyone talked about. But the overall opinion was it'll be grand and there's nothing to worry about. There were some very vocal statements about anyone concerned being hysterical, though some were evidently quietly concerned and afraid to speak up. The school trip to Spain is still planned to go ahead. There was no soap on the toilets and when I asked shout steppi g up the surface cleaning as per HSE advice to schools I got blank looks. Not somewhere I could spend two weeks over the next month so they'll have to find another sub.

You can't say that about all schools. We had hand sanitizers installed on walls all over the school last week and the principal bought in buckets of the stuff. 40 litres or so, and there is more stocked in the school. Staff and students went around and cleaned and disinfected every door handle and every railing and surface area that is commonly touched. Every class group was brought down one by one to our assembly area and shown how to wash their hands properly. Lots of the kids are going around with their own bottles of hand sanitizer. I made up a batch of it in the lab last week and word got out and my fifth years asked me to show them how to make it, so we made even more, for them to take away with them. While the school is fairly well covered with all the dispensers on the walls, there will be a bottle of hand sanitizer in every classroom in the coming week.

dhaughton99

The best we could think up was email and office365 and focusing on 3rd and 6th. Turns out, not many students in my 2 schools have access to computers at home.

r93kaey5p2izun

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You can't say that about all schools. We had hand sanitizers installed on walls all over the school last week and the principal bought in buckets of the stuff. 40 litres or so, and there is more stocked in the school. Staff and students went around and cleaned and disinfected every door handle and every railing and surface area that is commonly touched. Every class group was brought down one by one to our assembly area and shown how to wash their hands properly. Lots of the kids are going around with their own bottles of hand sanitizer. I made up a batch of it in the lab last week and word got out and my fifth years asked me to show them how to make it, so we made even more, for them to take away with them. While the school is fairly well covered with all the dispensers on the walls, there will be a bottle of hand sanitizer in every classroom in the coming week.

Not every school no, and your school sounds very proactive which is great. But my experience of many schools is that schools in general are filthy. And it's not easy to keep them clean enough either, believe me I know. All those door handles and railings and desks would really need to be cleaned several times a day in the current situation. Desks especially. I can't see it happening. It's great you have a good supply of sanitiser and ingredients for it though, your school is probably doing more than most.

rainbowtrout

Hand sanitizer is really just pure ethanol and glycerine in a ratio of 2:1 or thereabouts. Both easily available, and schools have access to ethanol through science suppliers. If you really wanted to push it buying cheap vodka and distilling it in the lab would bring it to the required concentration.

Millem

When I asked about getting hand sanitizer I was told that the bottles themselves have too many germs on them!!!
Our place is so yuck at the minute.

TheValeyard

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Hand sanitizer is really just pure ethanol and glycerine in a ratio of 2:1 or thereabouts. Both easily available, and schools have access to ethanol through science suppliers. If you really wanted to push it buying cheap vodka and distilling it in the lab would bring it to the required concentration.

That be a good CBA! Something actually useful.