Coronavirus- All schools to close? [MOD NOTE POST 346

krunningdruger

spurious wrote: »

Even the Department know teachers are paid for the 8 months and it is spread over the year.

Don't post in this thread again thanks.

Absolutley. A primary teacher on contract and on scale point 1 is paid €36,953 for 183 days in school out of 365 in a year. If they were paid on that ratio for the whole year including three months of holidays, they'd receive just over €49,000, which they don't.

Icyseanfitz

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nobody said schools won't close. The message is there not closing at the moment. It's an evolving situation. Listening to Pat Kenny this morning and Luke O'Neill it has to happen. We haven't had our oh **** moment yet and the Government seems to want to wait until that happens. It's not a good strategy as we're not testing for it in the community and the contact tracing seems to be an absolute disaster.

The oh **** moment for me was the jump to 10 new cases yesterday, it's as if they've looked at other countries and gone "sure we'll wait and see if it gets bad before acting", the perfect plan is to use the gap between paddies and Easter to minimise loss of school time and see if they can slow it.

Paulramone66

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm going to assume you know how to make a call on Skype, after that you need to set a group chat, if you want to share what's on your screen or send files it's really simple. https://edu.gcfglobal.org/en/skype-2016/screen-sharing-and-sending-files/1/
Regarding equipment all you need is access to a pc or laptop with internet and a Web cam with a microphone, here's one for €13, https://www.huntoffice.ie/trust-exis-webcam-black-silver-17003-trs91700.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwmKLzBRBeEiwACCVihh7cBi6sani9C2sttAm-5O6ko82JiiueDIZXqcM_L_3ZNGCDX1R0EhoCiroQAvD_BwE Skype is free.

I'm not a teacher but reading this thread and seeing people say they don't have the equipment, don't know how to do it etc is a little mistifing, it really is basic stuff and requires 5 minutes to figure out.

Not every teacher has a functioning laptop or high speed broadband. That applies to students too. Plus if kids at home many teachers will have to look after their own kids. Which is exact same position many private sector employees will have to do too. Im sure many Goggle workers wont be able to work from home if their kids are there. A crucial thing will be child care facilities -do they stay open or close?
As for teachers coming into schools-I wouldnt be against that but there might be practical impediments.
BTW-its a huge assumption that all schools have adequete IT. Half of the day my computer is down

FishOnABike

How many schools have 100Mbit+ unlimited symmetric uplink + downlink broadband? While limited scale tests might work, streaming lessons online will have not insignificant practical and technical issues to be resolved. With most school IT support outsourced it is going to take some time to make online lessons happen reliably.

Same applies to homes. How many have the unlimited high speed broadband to support multiple video conference streams (one per pupil in a household) and also a suitable device for each pupil in the household.

There are a lot of practical issues to be addressed before widespread online learning would work.

Bobtheman

Any teacher pupil contact over the time of closure will be left completely up to the individual due to individual circumstances until the day they at least give you a lap top
It's a joke every time you are asked to bring your own computer to an in-service. What other employer would make that request???!

olestoepoke

krunningdruger wrote: »

Absolutley. A primary teacher on contract and on scale point 1 is paid €36,953 for 183 days in school out of 365 in a year. If they were paid on that ratio for the whole year including three months of holidays, they'd receive just over €49,000, which they don't.

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't know so apologise. Absolutely no need for a mod to jump the gun and ban someone for asking a question. Blatant abuse of their powers. Thanks again.

byhookorbycrook

I'm quite amused by the "social space" will save us all. 6 year olds don't do social space and in any case , 30 six year olds in a small room is never going to give you the 2m we are supposed to keep apart.
Our school has been proactive in setting up basic measures like washing hands every time a child coughs, cleaning the door handles/stair railings each hour and of course proper cough hygiene, but it will only take one child to cause a domino-like issue. There are members of our school community who would be very vulnerable to any infection at the best of times.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

olestoepoke wrote: »

Teachers are already being paid in July and August, make them work. In what other profession in Ireland do you get off at 3 or 4 every day and get the whole summer off with pay? In France the school teachers are obliged to spend 2 weeks correcting state papers, here we have to pay them extra over and above what they are already getting paid.

This isn't about your gripe with teachers hours, this is about the students. Some of them do exams, some of them won't get a proper break, but as long as there are teachers with nothing to do, who cares?

doc_17

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No I don't agree. China's death toll and total cases has levelled off and Italy's is beginning to. China has a death toll of about 3000. Can't see why Ireland would be a huge statistical anomaly and have 20k deaths.

Just because the death toll has levelled off doesn’t mean it has stopped. And that’s under quarantine conditions which probably won’t last forever. I hope you’re 100% correct though. But nearly every single person in the country will be affected soon, all to varying degrees.

I

bladespin

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No I don't agree. China's death toll and total cases has levelled off and Italy's is beginning to. China has a death toll of about 3000. Can't see why Ireland would be a huge statistical anomaly and have 20k deaths.

On the other side of this, I can't see Ireland being anyway comparable statistically, there are massive differences between the out breaks, unknown when it started appearing in China, known entity here, living/working conditions also, high population centres vs a relatively sparce population density here; I think it's madness thinking we could suffer anything like China or Italy.

I'm honestly starting to believe there are some getting a big kick out of frightening others.

PhoenixParker

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No I don't agree. China's death toll and total cases has levelled off and Italy's is beginning to. China has a death toll of about 3000. Can't see why Ireland would be a huge statistical anomaly and have 20k deaths.

China's death toll and cases levelled off because they shut the country down and took extreme measures not because the virus went away.

drunkmonkey

Paulramone66 wrote: »

Not every teacher has a functioning laptop or high speed broadband. That applies to students too.

It could be done via a tablet, even mobile phone, the vast majority would have an internet connection. It's very hard to listen to those type of excuses for not helping in a crisis. It's painting a very bad picture of teachers ability in this thread if this type of thing is going to be constantly repeated.

Fleetwoodmac

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I'm quite amused by the "social space" will save us all. 6 year olds don't do social space and in any case , 30 six year olds in a small room is never going to give you the 2m we are supposed to keep apart.
Our school has been proactive in setting up basic measures like washing hands every time a child coughs, cleaning the door handles/stair railings each hour and of course proper cough hygiene, but it will only take one child to cause a domino-like issue. There are members of our school community who would be very vulnerable to any infection at the best of times.

My child's teacher has been so proactive from the very outset in setting up a handwashing station, disinfectant going in and out to breaks, before lunch etc etc. I can only imagine how time consuming this is and have nothing but admiration for her patience. I know how difficult it is to get one child to wash their hands properly never mind 30 odd 9 year olds.

Fleetwoodmac

FishOnABike wrote: »

How many schools have 100Mbit+ unlimited symmetric uplink + downlink broadband? While limited scale tests might work, streaming lessons online will have not insignificant practical and technical issues to be resolved. With most school IT support outsourced it is going to take some time to make online lessons happen reliably.

Same applies to homes. How many have the unlimited high speed broadband to support multiple video conference streams (one per pupil in a household) and also a suitable device for each pupil in the household.

There are a lot of practical issues to be addressed before widespread online learning would work.

No way us or any of our neighbours have broadband strength to sustain a Skype session... we need to go to relatives for such. Impractical for many of us living in the country. Sadly lack of investment is coming home to roost in many ways

Heart Break Kid

one would expect unless its a effected school it would stay open, I'd also assume when they reopen, they would open a bit further into the summer to catch up on weeks lost?>

TheValeyard

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

one would expect unless its a effected school it would stay open, I'd also assume when they reopen, they would open a bit further into the summer to catch up on weeks lost?>

Not sure. LC and JC could be affected which affects corrections, which could influence 3rd level start dates

RandomViewer

ted1 wrote: »

20 people died in Ireland today from smoking. No mass panic.

Comparing tomatoes and elephants

KWAG2019

Some excellent clued in posts here about the problems with technology and the demands on school uplinks and multiple users at home (working parents, students at second and third level). And the biggest one: inequality.

The govt cannot allow that to develop particularly for LC exam classes. If schools close nationally and I believe they will when/if numbers hit a threshold then there has to be a viable equal plan for LC students. I posted before that I believe in the circumstances of national closure the JC should be regarded as finished. I see no value in holding summer JC exams and it would take considerable number of travelling teachers/supervisors out of the system and help contain things.

The LC will pose difficulty as more affluent schools may be able to continue with online learning to some degree and gain an advantage if June exams progress. There are issues to tease out around that but the LC must be protected in the circumstances. It is flawed but it remains our gateway to life progression and no one social group should be allowed gain advantage in this crisis.

drunkmonkey

Weepsie wrote: »

Go into a school in certain parts of even affluent parts of Dublin. Try and teach the 30 kids online via Skype.
It's not going to happen. There are vast inequalities in access to everything from food to internet in single classes in schools.

It's not an open debating room in skype, you talk and share slides and they listen if they choose to. I get there are inequalities and it won't work for every student
I would certainly like to try and teach 30 kids online, this can't do attitude is quite deplorable to be honest, I would have expected more willingness to try to adapt in the situation.

Bobtheman

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not an open debating room in skype, you talk and share slides and they listen if they choose to. I get there are inequalities and it won't work for every student
I would certainly like to try and teach 30 kids online, this can't do attitude is quite deplorable to be honest, I would have expected more willingness to try to adapt in the situation.

As noted internet often doesn't work in schools let alone many homes. Teachers will do their best as most mainly do. But to be fair nobody is going to care if an anonymous non teacher thinks it's deplorable. Nor does the department care about lack of IT funding or that's it's perfectly ok to subsidize the wealthy in private schools. Nor that we pay 20m to Connaught rugby club but can't find the money for primary school books ?!?

deiseindublin

Where does all our GDPR training fit into this new crisis? Don't use your own devices etc etc?

I'm supposed to deliver some kind of support session for those new to e-learning, just in case, and have to ask management the question before I do.

I hope common sense prevails, and teachers are allowed to make use of whatever equipment they have, and are willing and capable of using!

jimmycrackcorm

FishOnABike wrote: »

How many schools have 100Mbit+ unlimited symmetric uplink + downlink broadband? While limited scale tests might work, streaming lessons online will have not insignificant practical and technical issues to be resolved. With most school IT support outsourced it is going to take some time to make online lessons happen reliably.

Same applies to homes. How many have the unlimited high speed broadband to support multiple video conference streams (one per pupil in a household) and also a suitable device for each pupil in the household.

There are a lot of practical issues to be addressed before widespread online learning would work.

The national broadband plan doesn't look sick a white elephant now so that we can have this capability in the future.

reg114

Poland with only 27 cases is closing all schools , universities, museums and banning congregations of more than 500 people from next Monday , We should be following suit asap considering with already have 34 here

S.G.M.

drunkmonkey wrote:

It's not an open debating room in skype, you talk and share slides and they listen if they choose to. I get there are inequalities and it won't work for every student I would certainly like to try and teach 30 kids online, this can't do attitude is quite deplorable to be honest, I would have expected more willingness to try to adapt in the situation.

Most people are being realistic, that wouldnt work.

NIMAN

ted1 wrote: »

20 people died in Ireland today from smoking. No mass panic.

And to be fair to the Government and their agencies, they spend an awful lot of money annually trying to encourage people to quit.

Remember the smoking ban? Some thought that was excessive, but looking back now it was a fantastic and progressive idea.

bladespin

NIMAN wrote: »

And to be fair to the Government and their agencies, they spend an awful lot of money annually trying to encourage people to quit.

Remember the smoking ban? Some thought that was excessive, but looking back now it was a fantastic and progressive idea.

No they don't, they hardly pay it lip service thanks to the tax it generates, they're even looking at tackling quiting-aids now.

They imposed the ban because they had to, their hand was called by medicine - acknowledge second hand smoke is harmful and therefore provides a dangerous working environment.

drunkmonkey

S.G.M. wrote: »

Most people are being realistic, that wouldnt work.

It won't work for everyone but teachers here making excuse after excuse and shutting down the idea without ever trying speaks volumes of their attitude in the situation, shut the schools down but don't expect us to help any students or spend €13 out of their own pockets to set themselves up to help play their part.

Let's be realistic here, there's teachers here that simply don't want to do it. Fine if that's the majorities attitude but the school term should be extended into the summer to compensate.

I don't think anyone is expecting teachers to go from 9-4 on a webcam but a couple of hours a week isn't going to kill anyone.

S.G.M.

drunkmonkey wrote:

I don't think anyone is expecting teachers to go from 9-4 on a webcam but a couple of hours a week isn't going to kill anyone.

First off, just want to clarify what you mean by 30 students. Do you mean 30 kids at one time?

FishOnABike

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not an open debating room in skype, you talk and share slides and they listen if they choose to. I get there are inequalities and it won't work for every student
I would certainly like to try and teach 30 kids online, this can't do attitude is quite deplorable to be honest, I would have expected more willingness to try to adapt in the situation.

It's not just unwillingness. The simple fact of the matter is that there are technical limitations both for the presenter and consumer of online lessons that it just might not be possible to work with.

I've had the experience of doing a distance education course where most of the lectures were streamed online and prerecorded so I could try to watch them again if it died mid lecture (as it frequently did, thanks to my 'broadband' at the time).

In the end I had to do some independent research and resort to using a combination of methods, circumventing their anti-copy technology, to download lectures and save offline locally to be able to view them. I have a tech background, so with a bit of effort it was possible.

For most if they don't have a solid, low contention 10Mbit+ broadband connection per user it's going to be a unsurmountable problem.

drunkmonkey

S.G.M. wrote: »

First off, just want to clarify what you mean by 30 students. Do you mean 30 kids at one time?

Yes 30 at the one time, I only know how it works from live trading rooms i'm in via skype but you can have 100's of adults live at the one time and one guy controlling and presenting everything. You can do it via youtube as well, here's a live youtube example with 850 people viewing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBS2HKMqnTA