Coronavirus in Limerick City

ChewBerecca

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I and actual experts though disagree about the length of time it will take to exit lockdown and the order of reopening compared to countries that were effected far worse than we were.

But it's not feasible to point fingers at what other countries are doing now when they are further into lockdown than we are or their experience with covid is different.

Italy has the second oldest population globally with over a fifth of people over 65. Ireland doesn't appear on the top 50 when googled. Italy also had the European epicentre of the virus with cases much earlier than Ireland and their lockdown began earlier than Irelands so they are already on Phase 2 or 3 if we try fit Irelands roadmap to them.

Each country needs to assess what will work best for their citizens. Yes everyone is looking to other counties to see what has not worked and what appears to be working but it's not going to work trying to conform Ireland to Italy or another country's plan.

Give Irish people the first sniff of freedom and Ballybunion/Kilkee/Doolin are overrun with people from Limerick and further afield which is not fair on the locals who are trying to shield their towns from the virus. Especially when a large contingent of summer tourists are from the hardest hit county.

MarkR

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I could accuse you of the exact same thing seeing that you have very few facts and only a third hand description of what happened.

The main reason it unlikey that anyone will get sick is that very very few people actually have the disease, so the the odds that someone who was in the hairdressers having it to actually spread it are miniscule.

Then there's the fact that you said that they were wearing masks.
WHO says that wearing a mask reduces the possibility of an infected person spreading the disease.

Do you even know if they were they social distancing, seeing as you seem to know exactly what happened in there? While our authorities advise 2m the WHO recommendation is only 1m.

You're the same man who claimed a pub broke lockdown because a throwaway line in a newspaper article said that there was cluster in one, even though there was zero evidence of this actually happening. Maybe you should take a step back, take a few deep breaths and realise that life goes on and as long as we take precautions 99% of us will be fine.

The problem is that life DOESN'T go on for some people, because of irresponsible behavior like the ones I've mentioned. It is currently illegal to do what they are doing.

If the article was ambiguous, apologies for that. It was reported as current news, but I suppose it is possible that the cluster was from an earlier time before the pubs were shut.

And yes, I do know they weren't social distancing, as they were getting their hair done. I've yet to see a hair dresser with robotic attachments allowing them to cut hair from 2m apart.

Cookiemunster

Lads. Covid 19 is not going away. It will be 18 months to 2 years before a vaccine becomes available (if one can be found) and another year or two to produce it in enough numbers to vaccinate everyone. We HAVE to learn to live with it. We cannot continue to be locked down and definitely cannot afford another lockdown. We can control it with social distancing, hand hygiene and mask wearing when close proximity with others is unvoidable.

People unfortunately will continue to die from it until a vaccine is found, but in the current situation we have people who are going to die unnecessarily from things like cancer and heart disease that isn't going to be picked up or treated in time. Last month alone 13,000 mammograms and 20,000 cervical checks went undone. Consultants can't see anyone in the 70% empty private hospitals that the state is paying €170m a month for. The public hospitals are 30% below capacity and people are aren't attending the EDs due to the amount of scaremongering. That all has to change now, not when there's a vaccine.

If we don't get people back to work, then we won't have an economy to pay for things like Covid payments or hospitals. That means shops, factories, hairdressers etc reopening with extra precautions, but reopening. Life cannot wait for a vaccine.

Mc Love

Such a know it all :rolleyes:





:pac:

kilburn

Mc Love wrote:

Such a know it all

Helpful and insightful as always.....

Cookie I don't disagree with the majority of what you said in your last post but the missed the first wave was a poor choice of words.

Mc Love

kilburn wrote: »

Helpful and insightful as always.....

Glad to be of service :P

who_ru

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Lads. Covid 19 is not going away. It will be 18 months to 2 years before a vaccine becomes available (if one can be found) and another year or two to produce it in enough numbers to vaccinate everyone. We HAVE to learn to live with it. We cannot continue to be locked down and definitely cannot afford another lockdown. We can control it with social distancing, hand hygiene and mask wearing when close proximity with others is unvoidable.

People unfortunately will continue to die from it until a vaccine is found, but in the current situation we have people who are going to die unnecessarily from things like cancer and heart disease that isn't going to be picked up or treated in time. Last month alone 13,000 mammograms and 20,000 cervical checks went undone. Consultants can't see anyone in the 70% empty private hospitals that the state is paying €170m a month for. The public hospitals are 30% below capacity and people are aren't attending the EDs due to the amount of scaremongering. That all has to change now, not when there's a vaccine.

If we don't get people back to work, then we won't have an economy to pay for things like Covid payments or hospitals. That means shops, factories, hairdressers etc reopening with extra precautions, but reopening. Life cannot wait for a vaccine.

i agree 100% - we must ensure we practice the highest standards when services re-open. if you enter a barber shop or hairdressers and they do not sanitize the equipment in front of you, if they don't insist on you wearing a mask, if they don't sanitize their hands etc then walk back out the door.

people will not take risks with this, they shouldn't need to. we have to adapt to it, there's no choice.

One of the big negatives to all this is no live music for 18-24 months, that sector is kaputt i think for the foreseeable future.

dominatinMC

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Lads. Covid 19 is not going away. It will be 18 months to 2 years before a vaccine becomes available (if one can be found) and another year or two to produce it in enough numbers to vaccinate everyone. We HAVE to learn to live with it. We cannot continue to be locked down and definitely cannot afford another lockdown. We can control it with social distancing, hand hygiene and mask wearing when close proximity with others is unvoidable.

People unfortunately will continue to die from it until a vaccine is found, but in the current situation we have people who are going to die unnecessarily from things like cancer and heart disease that isn't going to be picked up or treated in time. Last month alone 13,000 mammograms and 20,000 cervical checks went undone. Consultants can't see anyone in the 70% empty private hospitals that the state is paying €170m a month for. The public hospitals are 30% below capacity and people are aren't attending the EDs due to the amount of scaremongering. That all has to change now, not when there's a vaccine.

If we don't get people back to work, then we won't have an economy to pay for things like Covid payments or hospitals. That means shops, factories, hairdressers etc reopening with extra precautions, but reopening. Life cannot wait for a vaccine.

Agree with most of this, apart from your initial statement on the status of a vaccine. Depending on who you listen to, you could be led to believe that a vaccine could be 2-3 years away, or worse, might not be developed at all. However, in general, the media thrive on bad news - it sells, so people need to be aware of where they are getting their info. Some of the expert scientists I've been following (Prof. Adrian Hill of Oxford, no less) are confident that a vaccine will be developed in a lab before the end of 2020, and will be scaled-up and made widely available (probably to high-risk groups first) during 2021. I tend to trust the likes Adrian Hill (world renowned, leading expert in immunology) rather than some of the public health doctors who are getting a lot of column inches these days.

OfTheMarsWongs

Cookiemunster, agree with you for the most part. Regarding consultants in private hospitals, I believe some are working on public waiting lists. I know someone who was on a public waiting list for a scan (not urgent) and they got a call about two weeks ago to ask could they come down to have it done in Barringtons later that week.

johnnyryan89

OfTheMarsWongs wrote: »

Cookiemunster, agree with you for the most part. Regarding consultants in private hospitals, I believe some are working on public waiting lists. I know someone who was on a public waiting list for a scan (not urgent) and they got a call about two weeks ago to ask could they come down to have it done in Barringtons later that week.

Mother was in Tralee yesterday at the private hospital, got a phone call Friday to say it couldn't be done in the Regional so had to go to Tralee, was five or six others there who were waiting for an appointment in a public hospital.

Tree

dominatinMC wrote: »

Agree with most of this, apart from your initial statement on the status of a vaccine. Depending on who you listen to, you could be led to believe that a vaccine could be 2-3 years away, or worse, might not be developed at all. However, in general, the media thrive on bad news - it sells, so people need to be aware of where they are getting their info. Some of the expert scientists I've been following (Prof. Adrian Hill of Oxford, no less) are confident that a vaccine will be developed in a lab before the end of 2020, and will be scaled-up and made widely available (probably to high-risk groups first) during 2021. I tend to trust the likes Adrian Hill (world renowned, leading expert in immunology) rather than some of the public health doctors who are getting a lot of column inches these days.

Adrian Hill's track record in working vaccination that goes out to the public isn't impressive. Inc for SARS

I am honestly skeptical that a feasible vaccine that can be deployed at all in the next five years. No one has even demonstrated what long term immunity looks like, so erradication rather than permitting it to remain endemic in the population is the only way forward.

And the post infection syndromes that are now starting to emerge are rotten, perfectly healthy people, get a "moderate" dose and end up with long term lung funciotn and cardiac function issues.

No one should be willing to take an unnecessary risk with this virus. Health and food, vital for society. Haircuts, not so much.

phog

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Lads. Covid 19 is not going away. It will be 18 months to 2 years before a vaccine becomes available (if one can be found) and another year or two to produce it in enough numbers to vaccinate everyone. We HAVE to learn to live with it. We cannot continue to be locked down and definitely cannot afford another lockdown. We can control it with social distancing, hand hygiene and mask wearing when close proximity with others is unvoidable.

People unfortunately will continue to die from it until a vaccine is found, but in the current situation we have people who are going to die unnecessarily from things like cancer and heart disease that isn't going to be picked up or treated in time. Last month alone 13,000 mammograms and 20,000 cervical checks went undone. Consultants can't see anyone in the 70% empty private hospitals that the state is paying €170m a month for. The public hospitals are 30% below capacity and people are aren't attending the EDs due to the amount of scaremongering. That all has to change now, not when there's a vaccine.

If we don't get people back to work, then we won't have an economy to pay for things like Covid payments or hospitals. That means shops, factories, hairdressers etc reopening with extra precautions, but reopening. Life cannot wait for a vaccine.

Agree 100%

Some of our local elected representatives aren't helping with their scaremongering about being unable to adhere to physical distancing while exercising.

iguana

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Lads. Covid 19 is not going away. It will be 18 months to 2 years before a vaccine becomes available (if one can be found) and another year or two to produce it in enough numbers to vaccinate everyone.

That's not necessarily true at all. The swine flu vaccine in 2009 took under 5 months from the WHO first investigating reports of a novel flu strain to the beginning of mass vaccinations. This vaccine will take longer (obviously, as mass vaccinations would have to start in the next 10 days to be as fast) because it's harder to make a vaccine for this than it is to adapt a flu vaccine. But complete human trials and mass production all needed to be done for the swine flu vaccine and it took from noticing a problem on April 24th to mass vaccinations starting on September 21st. Once we have a working vaccine, it will be ready to roll out in weeks, months at most. As it stands the most promising vaccine options will go into mass production before their trials are completed. So if one or two of them turn out to be viable, mass vaccination can begin immediately. It's been done before when the need was much lower.

iguana

Tree wrote: »

Adrian Hill's track record in working vaccination that goes out to the public isn't impressive. Inc for SARS

The reason we don't have a SARS vaccine isn't a failure on anyone's part, it's that we never needed one.

Tree wrote: »

I am honestly skeptical that a feasible vaccine that can be deployed at all in the next five years. No one has even demonstrated what long term immunity looks like, so erradication rather than permitting it to remain endemic in the population is the only way forward.

Of course no one has been able to demonstrate long term immunity, we've only known the virus even exists for 19 weeks. It's impossible to tell how long immunity lasts right now. It's far, far too late for eradication through social distancing.

Tree wrote: »

And the post infection syndromes that are now starting to emerge are rotten, perfectly healthy people, get a "moderate" dose and end up with long term lung funciotn and cardiac function issues.

These dangers are overstated. Most people with mild to moderate illness will completely recover. However the virus does appear to cause a longer illness in many mild cases than initially assumed. 37% of mild cases in Korea are now observed to last for a minimum of a month. And there are many reports emerging of people being ill for 2-3 months. The virus appears to trigger inflammation and chest wall inflammation can take several months to heal, while having symptoms that mimic the initial infection. Chest pain/tightness, shortness of breath, dry cough, fever, etc. Over time we will most likely find that in spite of Covid 19 recoveries often having a long convalescent period, recovery is complete in time.

kilburn

Iguana how are you feeling now?

iguana

kilburn wrote: »

Iguana how are you feeling now?

I'm getting there. I was initially sick for about 19 days, better for 4 then developed post-viral pleurisy in my right lung and costochondritis across my chestwall. I still have some symptoms of both but honestly, I'm partially to blame for that myself as every time I feel about 90% better I do something really, really stupid, like mow my lawn or push-ups(!) and set myself back. My chest x-ray showed no long term damage, so I just really have to take the time and let myself heal up. It's going to take a while to get back to normal, I had been extremely fit so it's tough to get my head around the fact that right now I'm not. But it's temporary and the sooner I actually accept that, the sooner I'll be back to where I was.

Cookiemunster

iguana wrote: »

That's not necessarily true at all. The swine flu vaccine in 2009 took under 5 months from the WHO first investigating reports of a novel flu strain to the beginning of mass vaccinations. This vaccine will take longer (obviously, as mass vaccinations would have to start in the next 10 days to be as fast) because it's harder to make a vaccine for this than it is to adapt a flu vaccine. But complete human trials and mass production all needed to be done for the swine flu vaccine and it took from noticing a problem on April 24th to mass vaccinations starting on September 21st. Once we have a working vaccine, it will be ready to roll out in weeks, months at most. As it stands the most promising vaccine options will go into mass production before their trials are completed. So if one or two of them turn out to be viable, mass vaccination can begin immediately. It's been done before when the need was much lower.

18-24 months is what being quoted by most experts. They also say that it will take 1-2 years produce enough to vaccinate the entire planet. I'm not plucking the figures out of the air.

There's also that fact that this isn't a flu virus. Corona virus is much harder to create a vaccine for.

Miike

Cookiemunster wrote: »

18-24 months is what being quoted by most experts. They also say that it will take 1-2 years produce enough to vaccinate the entire planet. I'm not plucking the figures out of the air.

There's also that fact that this isn't a flu virus. Corona virus is much harder to create a vaccine for.

This really depends on which company comes out with the vaccine. A lot of big pharma players have already said if theirs comes to fruition they will allow other manufactures to start production and / or share adjuvants for increasing mass production capacity (Sanofi and GSK if I remember correctly are already doing so). If it's one of CEPIs you will see something very similar in terms of mass production. Mountains have been moved already, but how the f knows whats to come.

iguana

Cookiemunster wrote: »

18-24 months is what being quoted by most experts. They also say that it will take 1-2 years produce enough to vaccinate the entire planet. I'm not plucking the figures out of the air.

There's also that fact that this isn't a flu virus. Corona virus is much harder to create a vaccine for.

18-24 months isn't being given because it can't be done, that's demonstrably false because it was done 11 years ago. It's for 2 reasons. 1. To prepare people because we can't have national and international plans that assume a vaccine will be available soon. We can't have a plan that includes a vaccine by Feb 2021 because it mightn't happen. We have to plan for potentially never having one. Anything else is foolhardy. 2. To ensure the necessary funding and regulatory changes to speed it the hell up. Speeding up a vaccine is insanely expensive and involves spending hundreds of millions, maybe billions, on potential vaccines that definitely won't all work. However not having a vaccine asap will cost far, far more in the long run. So companies and governments need to waste billions to ultimately save trillions.

If any of the current trials prove genuinely positive, the turnaround will be rapid. We don't need to vaccinate the entire planet to start. We need to vaccinate the most vulnerable, who can be vaccinated first. The elderly and those with relevant underlying conditions which are also not contraindicated with vaccination. Once that's done the pressure on ICUs is removed. Obviously we will eventually want most people to vaccinate and for us to have herd immunity. And it's possible that any vaccine will have to be had every year or two in order to achieve that. But the purpose of lockdowns and social distancing is to protect healthcare systems. Once that's done normal social behaviours can resume even if it will another year or two before we reach full vaccination capacity.

adaminho

Then you have dopes doing this! https://twitter.com/DanielButlerFG/status/1260493524417613824

kilburn

Glad to hear you are getting better look after yourself

kilburn

Just had to pick up a used face mask that some filthy animal threw in my garden pity I didn't catch them would have gladly reported the pig for littering

callaway92

I see Hook & Ladder in Castletroy have their seating area out the front open this morning and there’s a good few people sitting down having their coffee there (was also a queue coming inside the shopping centre side).

Should they be allowed to be doing the seating outside?

Just curious really (as someone who dislikes everything Hook & Ladder stand for)

Cetyl Palmitate

callaway92 wrote: »

I see Hook & Ladder in Castletroy have their seating area out the front open this morning and there’s a good few people sitting down having their coffee there (was also a queue coming inside the shopping centre side).

Should they be allowed to be doing the seating outside?

Just curious really (as someone who dislikes everything Hook & Ladder stand for)

Don't know much about outdoor seating but am curious what hook and ladder stand for!?

Insect Overlord

Cetyl Palmitate wrote: »

Don't know much about outdoor seating but am curious what hook and ladder stand for!?

A lot of people are still pissed off because of unpaid debts after the owners' previous enterprise went out of business.

callaway92

Cetyl Palmitate wrote: »

Don't know much about outdoor seating but am curious what hook and ladder stand for!?

I find them beyond pretentious, overpriced and the reason the poster below me mentioned too.

at9qu5vp0wcix7

Insect Overlord wrote: »

A lot of people are still pissed off because of unpaid debts after the owners' previous enterprise went out of business.

Any more info on this? Can't find much in the public domain.

Cookiemunster

Yara Small Fowl wrote: »

Any more info on this? Can't find much in the public domain.

Same guys owned Instore IIRC.

Glenomra

Currently we are the only country in Europe with the stupid 5km restriction. Even Italy is about to allow people to travel freely within the country. Beginning to look more and more like a police state imo

CosmicFool

Glenomra wrote: »

Currently we are the only country in Europe with the stupid 5km restriction. Even Italy is about to allow people to travel freely within the country. Beginning to look more and more like a police state imo

Ireland is far from s police state.