Coronavirus (COVID-19)

igCorcaigh

The retail issue is ridiculous. They were open in summer.

The obvious focal point of spread is socialising and associated venues. Not retail.

fin12

igCorcaigh wrote: »

The retail issue is ridiculous. They were open in summer.

The obvious focal point of spread is socialising and associated venues. Not retail.

Look at the lockdown the north have compared to us and their numbers are way worse. In other countries they are just doing curfews.

freshpopcorn

You can buy candles, cushions, sofas in a shop but if your kid vomits on their clothes if they were sick or rips their school trousers the same shop can’t sell you them.

One places is selling baking trays, mixing bowels, pans, pots but not plates and cutlery.

Cork Lass

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Gardai are shutting down the clothing sections of Tesco and Dunnes (as what/why clothes are non essential) but no stopping large gatherings or house parties and large sales of alcohol

Yep, so a person can now go in to a shop and buy cigarettes, drink and lottery tickets but not clothes - just another mad rule put in place by our incompetent government.

440Hertz

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Yes, and i don't get it. If other businesses are closed anyway, then why shut down other stores selling?

All it will do is annoy people, undermine morale and drive most of the sales online and into the arms of ASOS, Amazon and others, rather than local stores (including Dunnes) with relatively poor online presence, and those may never come back. I could see this Xmas being very busy ... for An Post, DPD, FedEx etc

calnand

Cork Lass wrote: »

Yep, so a person can now go in to a shop and buy cigarettes, drink and lottery tickets but not clothes - just another mad rule put in place by our incompetent government.

But when buying clothes there's a lot more hanging around browsing, if you're getting food you're more likely to go in grab the stuff you need and leave.

Cork Lass

I didn’t mention food, food is essential. My point was that non-essentials like cigarettes, alcohol and lottery tickets can still be purchased whilst clothes cannot.

Away With The Fairies

Cork Lass wrote: »

I didn’t mention food, food is essential. My point was that non-essentials like cigarettes, alcohol and lottery tickets can still be purchased whilst clothes cannot.

Makes no sense. Nobody needs cigarettes, alcohol or lottery tickets to survive.

Zardoz

freshpopcorn wrote: »

You can buy candles, cushions, sofas in a shop but if your kid vomits on their clothes if they were sick or rips their school trousers the same shop can’t sell you them.

What shops are open selling sofas ?

freshpopcorn

Zardoz wrote: »

What shops are open selling sofas ?

I'm just going by something I read online but Dunnes are meant to have had one or two them on display in certain stores but they had everything else closed off to the public.

cantalach

Limiting the range of goods sold by retailers is just a more forceful way to reduce footfall. The less forceful way is to ask people not to shop for non-essential items. But the problem with the second approach is that people ignore the guidance and do whatever the Hell they want. So restriction is the only option. I don’t see why people find this so hard to understand.

Let’s be honest with ourselves here. The reason why we are where we are is not incompetent government. Sure, they could have done some things or maybe even many things better. But that is true of every government on the planet, even the Kiwis. The blame here is squarely on us. We’ve all heard the anecdotes and shared many of them on this thread. Bottom line is that we didn’t do a lot of things Government asked us to do, and we did lots of things they asked us not to do. It’s a hard truth but I think deep down we all know that to be true. So suck it up and let’s not fûck it up next time we get the cases down.

Cork Lass

cantalach wrote: »

So suck it up and let’s not fûck it up next time we get the cases down.

Bull****. The vast majority if us did not f#ck it up the first time - that’s absolutely down to a minority who would not comply. Now, here we are again and those of us that did comply are paying the price yet again. It does have a lot to do with our incompetent government - if they clamped down on the right people maybe we wouldn’t be where we are now. Sorry if I sound confrontational but I’m seriously sick of the whole sh1tfest that is our life now.

Zardoz

cantalach wrote: »

Let’s be honest with ourselves here. The reason why we are where we are is not incompetent government. .

The main reason we are here is the HSE and their historical incompetence .
55 extra ICU beds added in 7 months, when double that was needed.
If those extra beds were in place, the hospitals wouldn't have been strapped and level 5 would not be in place.

Level 3 would be adequate and the Government could then actually implement the laws to crack down on the people not adhering to restrictions .
That would have brought the numbers down .

Away With The Fairies

Cork Lass wrote: »

Bull****. The vast majority if us did not f#ck it up the first time - that’s absolutely down to a minority who would not comply. Now, here we are again and those of us that did comply are paying the price yet again. It does have a lot to do with our incompetent government - if they clamped down on the right people maybe we wouldn’t be where we are now. Sorry if I sound confrontational but I’m seriously sick of the whole sh1tfest that is our life now.

Absolutely and no control at the airports. Just invite infection into the country.

Widdensushi

Zardoz wrote: »

The main reason we are here is the HSE and their historical incompetence .
55 extra ICU beds added in 7 months, when double that was needed.
If those extra beds were in place, the hospitals wouldn't have been strapped and level 5 would not be in place.

Level 3 would be adequate and the Government could then actually implement the laws to crack down on the people not adhering to restrictions .
That would have brought the numbers down .

While I totally agree that more icu should have been provided I am not sure level 5 is needed. The numbers have stabilised under 3 and if the decision was left another couple of days I believe it would have stayed at 3 with extra enforcement powers for the gardai. I don't believe any of this rubbish about getting to 2, 3 is where it will be before Christmas

corks finest

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Absolutely and no control at the airports. Just invite infection into the country.

100 percent valid points

SleetAndSnow

96 today

JP Liz V1

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

96 today

A decrease that's good

fonecrusher1

Cork Lass wrote: »

Bull****. The vast majority if us did not f#ck it up the first time - that’s absolutely down to a minority who would not comply. Now, here we are again and those of us that did comply are paying the price yet again. It does have a lot to do with our incompetent government - if they clamped down on the right people maybe we wouldn’t be where we are now. Sorry if I sound confrontational but I’m seriously sick of the whole sh1tfest that is our life now.

Absolutely spot on.

Its the same useless scourge again and again who don't give a **** are causing this thing to thrive again. I actually think the vast majority do care and are trying their best but sadly all that effort is completely undermined by the minority idiot demographic who just don't give two sh!ts.

Laws need to be changed fast to introduce real consequences to impact the same useless cohort who flout the rules time and time again.

cantalach

Cork Lass wrote: »

Bull****. The vast majority if us did not f#ck it up the first time - that’s absolutely down to a minority who would not comply.

The vast majority of adults think they complied but they didn't really. If somebody didn't follow all the rules all the time, they didn't comply. There's no room for subjectivity here. And the vast majority of adults in the country have broken at least some of the rules some of the time. Perhaps it was a non-essential trip to the shop, meeting one friend too many, having a drink with no intention of ordering food, entering a home when they got a bit chilly sitting in the garden, not wearing a mask when they really should, exercising outside their 5km zone, not washing their hands on returning from the shops, giving the neighbour's child a lift to football training, etc.

We dismiss our own transgressions and those of our friends and families as one-offs or minor or for a good excuse. And we persuade ourselves that they don't really matter, because the real problem is all those other people who are doing X or not doing Y. But these are all just shades of transgression. Nobody has been flawless in all of this. And I think we need to be honest and acknowledge that.

It does have a lot to do with our incompetent government - if they clamped down on the right people maybe we wouldn’t be where we are now.

Yes, I fully agree that mistakes were made and that a much harder line should have been taken. In contributions on this thread, I've argued with Covidiots who claim that there's no harm doing X or not doing Y, and I've advocated very stiff Australian-style fines for serious offences and been mocked for it! But we saw what happened when the Government brought a bill before Oireachtas the other day to introduce fines. SF wouldn't support it because of a lack of oversight, and PBP moaned that the disadvantaged would be fined more. The Government is walking a tight-rope and trying to find a balance. Ultimately we have to get ourselves out of this.

Sorry if I sound confrontational but I’m seriously sick of the whole sh1tfest that is our life now.

We all are.

cantalach

Jenny Magnificent Buttermilk wrote: »

Staggering post. 99% of people did exactly what was asked of them [...]

They didn't, and you know they didn't.


Did 99% of people never make even one unnecessary trip to the shops?


Did 99% of people always wash their hands on retuning home?


Did 99% of people never visit somebody in their garden and end up in the house?


Did 99% of people never choose to remain in a group of people that was uncomfortably close together?


If you're going to use words like "exactly" then you have to be exact. Nobody with hand on heart could claim 99% of the population adhered perfectly.

Chris_5339762

I usually don't wade into these arguments and stay out of it, but most of the modelling that is used I THINK uses 2 standard deviations.

It assumes 95% of people do (or don't) do such a thing 95% of the time.

TheChizler

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I usually don't wade into these arguments and stay out of it, but most of the modelling that is used I THINK uses 2 standard deviations.

It assumes 95% of people do (or don't) do such a thing 95% of the time.

Standard deviations tell you about the variance in a measurement, you might be thinking of confidence intervals where its common to say you have a 95% confidence that the true value lies within a range of measurements? But neither necessarily mean that 95% of people do a thing.

cantalach

cantalach wrote: »

They didn't, and you know they didn't.


Did 99% of people never make even one unnecessary trip to the shops?


Did 99% of people always wash their hands on retuning home?


Did 99% of people never visit somebody in their garden and end up in the house?


Did 99% of people never choose to remain in a group of people that was uncomfortably close together?


If you're going to use words like "exactly" then you have to be exact. Nobody with hand on heart could claim 99% of the population adhered perfectly.

It's the house parties & stuff like that is the problem.... Level 3 was working even with all those pr1cks.

Cork Lass

cantalach wrote: »

They didn't, and you know they didn't.


Did 99% of people never make even one unnecessary trip to the shops?


Did 99% of people always wash their hands on retuning home?


Did 99% of people never visit somebody in their garden and end up in the house?


Did 99% of people never choose to remain in a group of people that was uncomfortably close together?


If you're going to use words like "exactly" then you have to be exact. Nobody with hand on heart could claim 99% of the population adhered perfectly.

You’re being way too harsh here. The majority of people complied, if not 100% then close enough for it not to matter. The problem is those who blatantly do not comply any of the time. House parties were a major contributor and these were driven by the closure of pubs and restaurants. No one pulled up for it either. Our government is as weak as p1sswater when it comes to tackling these issues.

TheChizler

Augeo wrote: »

It's the house parties & stuff like that is the problem.... Level 3 was working even with all those pr1cks.

Were there any stats to say what proportion of cases were due to house parties? I heard that something like 30% happened in household settings but that could just be people living together spreading to each other. House parties, while obviously a really bad idea, might just be a bogieman.

SusieBlue

To be fair I think if any clusters had come out of College Road during the summer we would have heard about it, the media were only dying for such a story to come about.

So while I do think that the upsurge in cases is from people mingling and mixing more with friends and family and different households (which no amount of closing shops/restaurants/hairdressers will help), I don’t think it’s necessarily because of parties.

I posted on another thread earlier that the difference between this weekend and the first weekend of the March lockdown was worlds apart.
I saw groups of all ages out everywhere, out walking together, standing outside coffee shops, and sitting on the bollards on Patrick St eating with friends/family.
There is no way all those groups of people are from the one household because during the first lockdown town was all but deserted and when I saw people out walking they were pretty much always alone.

The truth of the matter is that attitudes have changed, and while people are willing to give up a lot, they aren’t willing to do total isolation this time around.
And no amount of level 5 is going to change that. If the public buy in isn’t there (which it isn’t), we’re only wasting our time with this.
They need to change tactics, and fast, because the frustration and tension is only growing by the day.

If the government won’t acknowledge that now, they’ll have no choice in a few weeks time when this whole thing explodes when people realise they aren’t getting a semi normal Christmas they were all but promised for all their sacrifices.
The whole point of this fruitless exercise was to ‘save’ Christmas and when the public realise that at best we’ll be back to level 3.5 restrictions, there will be ructions.

TheChizler

I don't think indoor bars and restaurants have a future in a stable living with covid scenario, unless major steps are taken to seat people from different households far enough apart.

SusieBlue

I really don’t think that’s fair though, when there has been hardly any clusters or outbreaks leading back to indoor bars and restaurants.
They aren’t the problem and never were the problem, not that it would stop the government from blaming them (I get the point that you’re making though).

I find it very frustrating that the industries/settings with the most outbreaks were meat factories, nursing homes, and direct provision centres, none of which was the fault or responsibility of the general public, and yet the government made little to no effort to get them under control at all.
Instead they threw everything but the kitchen sink at industries such as the pub trade, restaurants, shops, gyms and hairdressers, who were made scapegoats for the mismanagement and ineptitude of the government.

If I was the owner of a business that has been forced to close because of the restrictions I would be absolutely furious right now.
They invested thousands of euro they didn’t have to reopen safely and they’ve barely been given a chance to financially recover before being closed again.
Meanwhile the disgraceful mismanagement of nursing homes gets conveniently swept under the carpet while we’re all told ‘we aren’t where we need to be yet’ and ‘we’re all in this together’.
It’s just getting old now, being honest.
We clearly aren’t in this together. Some are suffering and sacrificing a lot more than others, and have a lot more to lose the longer these rolling lockdowns continue. There has to be a balance of interests and people are finally starting to realise that.

TheChizler

Bars and restaurants accounted for 27% of cases at their height IIRC, must see if I can find the stat. Think about it, you go for dinner with your friends, you're put sitting next to each other for 90 minutes no mask. Pretty much guaranteed transmission if one person has it.

Edit: not quite the same but found this. Not sure if they all occurred in restaurants or were subsequent infections elsewhere. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-seventy-cases-in-cork-traced-to-local-pubs-and-restaurants-in-recent-weeks-1.4366678