Working From Home Megathread

Summer2020

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

A recruiter in IT told me yesterday that if employers do not offer any WFH, they can forget about hiring any decent talent. The new roles need to be hybrid at the very minimum. He said the market is bouyant with lots of people on the move.

Wouldn’t be like a recruiter to lie now of course.

Cluedo Monopoly

Summer2020 wrote: »

Wouldn’t be like a recruiter to lie now of course.

He is a friend of mine and has no reason to lie. I can see it myself in the Galway job market too.

krissovo

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

A recruiter in IT told me yesterday that if employers do not offer any WFH, they can forget about hiring any decent talent. The new roles need to be hybrid at the very minimum. He said the market is bouyant with lots of people on the move.

It been like that for 3 years at least. One example I have is a large Bank in the UK that is based in Scotland. They have a ridged policy of being office based and they have only just started a project that has been planned for the last 5 years as they could not build a onsite team. COVID came and they hired remotely and as if by magic they finally have a decent developer team and got the project started.

_Kaiser_

namloc1980 wrote: »

The difference being that people who want to stay WFH don't really care whether you or other people go back to the office. Whatever works for you, works for you.

Whereas the "let's all get back to the office" crowd, by and large, want everyone back in the office and don't want to have anyone allowed to WFH. One group has a live and let live attitude, the other wants everyone in lockstep marching to the same tune back to the dreary open-plan office, regardless of what might work for them.

I think it's multiple reasons...

- They see work as their primary social outlet or miss the attention in some cases
- They struggle with productivity unless they have someone standing over them
- It's not as easy to hide away (more obvious if you are) when WFH
- The Irish thing of not liking anything/anyone different or feeling that others are "getting away" with something

jakiah

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

A recruiter in IT told me yesterday that if employers do not offer any WFH, they can forget about hiring any decent talent. The new roles need to be hybrid at the very minimum. He said the market is bouyant with lots of people on the move.

This is nothing new. Why would anyone in demand take a job with no flexibility?

AdamD

namloc1980 wrote: »

The difference being that people who want to stay WFH don't really care whether you or other people go back to the office. Whatever works for you, works for you.

Whereas the "let's all get back to the office" crowd, by and large, want everyone back in the office and don't want to have anyone allowed to WFH. One group has a live and let live attitude, the other wants everyone in lockstep marching to the same tune back to the dreary open-plan office, regardless of what might work for them.

Take away that one Bumble poster and you'll find significantly more posts insulting anyone who prefers to work in an office than people suggesting to drag everyone back in.

Brian CivilEng

namloc1980 wrote: »

The difference being that people who want to stay WFH don't really care whether you or other people go back to the office. Whatever works for you, works for you.

Whereas the "let's all get back to the office" crowd, by and large, want everyone back in the office and don't want to have anyone allowed to WFH. One group has a live and let live attitude, the other wants everyone in lockstep marching to the same tune back to the dreary open-plan office, regardless of what might work for them.

You see this is exactly what I am talking about. As a fully paid up member of the "lets get back to the office" crowd I have never once said that other people should go back if they don't want to. Yet when I bring up on a teams call that I am looking forward to getting back to the office I get shouted down, told that it's not going to happen.

I do worry that when I do get back to the office that the same benefit won't be there unless everyone is back. But working in a half full office is still better for me than working from home. That's not me saying that everyone should work in the office, that's me lamenting that they aren't.

newuser99999

AdamD wrote: »

Take away that one Bumble poster and you'll find significantly more posts insulting anyone who prefers to work in an office than people suggesting to drag everyone back in.

Anyone who wants to go back to the office in this thread is called lazy, unproductive, must be a micro manager etc the insults go on and on. I think people are forgetting that some of us never signed up for working from home and our home life / spaces are not conducive for working from home. I couldn’t care less what anyone else does, I just want the option to go back into the office everyday.

Antares35

newuser99999 wrote: »

Anyone who wants to go back to the office in this thread is called lazy, unproductive, must be a micro manager etc the insults go on and on. I think people are forgetting that some of us never signed up for working from home and our home life / spaces are not conducive for working from home. I couldn’t care less what anyone else does, I just want the option to go back into the office everyday.

There's lots of things covid related that none of us signed up to.

BrianD3

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why are the anti-WFH crowd obsessed with getting everyone back into the office? Obsessed with getting everyone back into the daily drudge of the commute and sitting together in an office with the faux office chats etc.? I think it's likely the micro-managers who are suffering badly on two fronts: firstly, they have nobody to be physically keeping an eye on all day and micro-managing them and secondly, productivity has been largely unaffected meaning the micro-managers are no longer relevant.

I follow all of these WFH threads, I noticed that there is a distinct South Dublin vibe from several of the most anti WFH posters. I'd speculate that they have settled and own expensive property close to where they work and fear a disruption of the property market if WFH becomes widespread. Also, are smug about having a short commute and congratulate themselves about their clever life choices. Egos will be bruised if someone could do their job and have neither an expensive mortgage nor a long commute.

Also, certain professions thrive on office bullsh*t, snobbery and gradism. E.g. John is a director and wears an expensive suit to the office. Has a large office with a brass name plate on the door. Tom is a mere associate who gets a much smaller office. Deirdre the hot receptionist in her tight pencil skirt likes to flirt with John rather than with Tom. All of this is heavily diluted with WFH.

newuser99999

Antares35 wrote: »

There's lots of things covid related that none of us signed up to.

Which I’m happy to do until things start to ease up and go back to normal

namloc1980

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

You see this is exactly what I am talking about. As a fully paid up member of the "lets get back to the office" crowd I have never once said that other people should go back if they don't want to. Yet when I bring up on a teams call that I am looking forward to getting back to the office I get shouted down, told that it's not going to happen.

I do worry that when I do get back to the office that the same benefit won't be there unless everyone is back. But working in a half full office is still better for me than working from home. That's not me saying that everyone should work in the office, that's me lamenting that they aren't.

And you see this is what I am talking about. Why do you care about what other people do if it suits them? This has a "woe is me" vibe because other people are doing something different that you don't agree with.

Antares35

newuser99999 wrote: »

Which I’m happy to do until things start to ease up and go back to normal

That's good. I don't and never did have an issue with what other people want to do. Live and let live and all that.

Brian CivilEng

namloc1980 wrote: »

And you see this is what I am talking about. Why do you care about what other people do if it suits them? This has a "woe is me" vibe because other people are doing something different that you don't agree with.

I appreciate my colleagues. Of course I will miss them if they are not there. Why wouldn't I?

.

namloc1980

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

I appreciate my colleagues. Of course I will miss them if they are not there. Why wouldn't I?

You didn't say you'd miss them, you said the same "benefit" wouldn't be there unless everyone was back in the office. Why can't you just live and let live?

Antares35

namloc1980 wrote: »

You didn't say you'd miss them, you said the same "benefit" wouldn't be there unless everyone was back in the office. Why can't you just live and let live?

The person in our office making the most noise about everyone returning loves a good audience to her stories about who she met at the weekend and how her kids have been headhunted etc. I suppose it would be no fun for her to just talk to wall about her life, so she would prefer that we all go in and listen to her. Perhaps loneliness/ social interaction is a driver for some (though not a justifiable one IMO).

Brian CivilEng

namloc1980 wrote: »

You didn't say you'd miss them, you said the same "benefit" wouldn't be there unless everyone was back in the office. Why can't you just live and let live?

OK, what I am saying that you think I am not living and live? Part of the benefit of the office is that everyone I work with is there, I get to see them day in and day out. I said that if half the people were working from home I wouldn't have that benefit, but I'd still prefer to be among the half that were in the office?

If my best friend moved to Australia I'd lose the benefit of someone to go to the pub with. I'd feel sorry for myself over that, no matter how happy I'd be for them. This is what I am trying to say. How can you be taking offence at that?

Backstreet Moyes

The biggest positive for me with productivity is avoiding people who are lazy.

We have one or two people who you advise them on what to do and they have no interest in learning so keep dropping over asking for help non stop.

They take up probably an hour or two of the week.

Now you can just ignore them and say you were in meetings all day.

namloc1980

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

OK, what I am saying that you think I am not living and live? Part of the benefit of the office is that everyone I work with is there, I get to see them day in and day out. I said that if half the people were working from home I wouldn't have that benefit, but I'd still prefer to be among the half that were in the office?

If my best friend moved to Australia I'd lose the benefit of someone to go to the pub with. I'd feel sorry for myself over that, no matter how happy I'd be for them. This is what I am trying to say. How can you be taking offence at that?

I'm not taking offence, just trying to understand what you are saying. You have proven my earlier point that essentially as a pro-return to office person you want everyone back for your own benefit but not necessarily theirs, especially if WFH works for them and they want to continue it. Deep down you'd rather disrupt them and have them in the office so you don't have to feel sorry for yourself.

Brian CivilEng

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'm not taking offence, just trying to understand what you are saying. You have proven my earlier point that essentially as a pro-return to office person you want everyone back for your own benefit but not necessarily theirs, especially if WFH works for them and they want to continue it. Deep down you'd rather disrupt them and have them in the office so you don't have to feel sorry for yourself.

Please, tell me where have I said that???? I said I'd miss them, not that I would force them. You are actually really upsetting me now. What exactly do you want me to say?

doc22

BrianD3 wrote: »

I follow all of these WFH threads, I noticed that there is a distinct South Dublin vibe from several of the most anti WFH posters. I'd speculate that they have settled and own expensive property close to where they work and fear a disruption of the property market if WFH becomes widespread. Also, are smug about having a short commute and congratulate themselves about their clever life choices. Egos will be bruised if someone could do their job and have neither an expensive mortgage nor a long commute.

Also, certain professions thrive on office bullsh*t, snobbery and gradism. E.g. John is a director and wears an expensive suit to the office. Has a large office with a brass name plate on the door. Tom is a mere associate who gets a much smaller office. Deirdre the hot receptionist in her tight pencil skirt likes to flirt with John rather than with Tom. All of this is heavily diluted with WFH.

Ah common what nonsense is this, those wanting to get back into work are those living in tiny housing/apartments sharing with others and have limited space. You seemed to have created a weird narrative in your head that WFH is sticking it those well off in large houses with good jobs/ attractive. Some of the stuff spouted off by the wfh brigade

FlubberJones

If everyone is hauled back to the office in three months I'll not be bothered one iota... had over 12 months of it.... Bored now. I have no commute either and the office is next to my gym too....

namloc1980

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

Please, tell me where have I said that???? I said I'd miss them, not that I would force them. You are actually really upsetting me now. What exactly do you want me to say?

You literally said the benefit of the office is having everyone there and you would lament and feel sorry for yourself if they aren't. Would you rather everyone back in the office than just letting everyone do what suits them best?

Brian CivilEng

namloc1980 wrote: »

You literally said the benefit of the office is having everyone there and you would lament and feel sorry for yourself if they aren't. Would you rather everyone back in the office than just letting everyone do what suits them best?

No! I never said I would force anyone back! I said I want to go back. And I will miss my colleagues who continue to work from home. And you keep putting words in my mouth stating something I did not say.

namloc1980

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

No! I never said I would force anyone back! I said I want to go back. And I will miss my colleagues who continue to work from home. And you keep putting words in my mouth stating something I did not say.

You said:

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

I do worry that when I do get back to the office that the same benefit won't be there unless everyone is back.

That reads like you would prefer everyone to be back versus not everyone being back. No? Or are you now saying you don't really care?

BrianD3

doc22 wrote: »

Ah common what nonsense is this, those wanting to get back into work are those living in tiny housing/apartments sharing with others and have limited space. You seemed to have created a weird narrative in your head that WFH is sticking it those well off in large houses with good jobs/ attractive. Some of the stuff spouted off by the wfh brigade

As has been pointed out on numerous occasions the "wfh brigade" don't have a problem with people wanting to be in the office as long as they don't try to impose office work on others. My points are absolutely valid. Vested interests are generally disingenuous when it come to lobbying, using other people/hard luck cases to promote their agenda. In the case of WFH, talking about the difficulties people in shoebox apartments have with WFH when in actual fact they don't give a crap about those people.

Brian CivilEng

namloc1980 wrote: »

You said:



That reads like you would prefer everyone to be back versus not everyone being back. No? Or are you now saying you don't really care?

Yes I would prefer if everyone chooses to come back. I accept that they won't. And I worry that when I do get back to the office it won't be the same. I have another worry that not enough people will want to come back so management decide to move us to wfh permanently. And I've stated elsewhere in this thread if that happens then I will need to move jobs to somewhere office based.

Nowhere in this thread have I said I want to force people to do something to suit me. Do you want me to lie and say I don't care what other people do? Because I do, and it is causing me a lot of stress.

Naos

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

No! I never said I would force anyone back! I said I want to go back. And I will miss my colleagues who continue to work from home. And you keep putting words in my mouth stating something I did not say.

I think the point you're missing is that you are touting everyone being in the office together (be it a social or work perspective) is of benefit to you. In order for that benefit to be achieved, it comes at a detriment to someone else.

Whereas someone who is pro-WFH, their benefits do not come at a cost to others for example; not having a commute, not having to engage in conversation with people they are not fond of, more flexibility etc.

All benefits to them at no detriment to others.

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

Yes I would prefer if everyone chooses to come back.

Again, this simple line showcases it. I like WFH, I don't care what others want to do, let them choose what suits them and I'll say that to Management if asked.

If you are asked, you'd say you would prefer everyone be back in the office although you accept they won't all return. It still plants the seed. Everyone back.
You may not be purposefully asking for it but can you understand why the WFH crowd are frustrated? You're unknowingly asking for everyone to return.

Brian CivilEng

Naos wrote: »

I think the point you're missing is that you are touting everyone being in the office together (be it a social or work perspective) is of benefit to you. In order for that benefit to be achieved, it comes at a detriment to someone else.

The original point I was trying to make was that every time I state I am looking forward to getting back to the office I get shouted down and told I am wrong. I think my point has been proven. This is that teams call all over again.

Do you not take the point that in order for you to work from home it comes at the detriment to those who work best in an office environment?