Working From Home Megathread

Man Vs ManUre

Nuts102 wrote: »

The biggest positive for me with productivity is avoiding people who are lazy.

We have one or two people who you advise them on what to do and they have no interest in learning so keep dropping over asking for help non stop.

They take up probably an hour or two of the week.

Now you can just ignore them and say you were in meetings all day.

If you think those people were lazy in the office, you should see them when they are working from home!!

_Kaiser_

Naos wrote: »

If you are asked, you'd say you would prefer everyone be back in the office although you accept they won't all return. It still plants the seed. Everyone back.

I think this is the worry many have - that a few vocal detractors in an office (who probably were also those who were the most visible in the office previously) will complain and bemoan "lost opportunities to collaborate" to where the decision makers decide that they'll just bring everyone back so.

Antares35

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

The original point I was trying to make was that every time I state I am looking forward to getting back to the office I get shouted down and told I am wrong. I think my point has been proven. This is that teams call all over again.

Do you not take the point that in order for you to work from home it comes at the detriment to those who work best in an office environment?

You really shouldn't tolerate people shouting you down, it isn't how any adult should conduct him/her self in the workplace or otherwise.

The issue seems to be that people who want an office environment need other people there in order to create said office environment, whereas people who want to WFH don't need other people with them. So, one group relies on others for their needs/ wants, and the other doesn't. Unless you're saying you don't need other people to create an office environment, in which case I would ask the question what environment then are you referring to?

irelandrover

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think this is the worry many have - that a few vocal detractors in an office (who probably were also those who were the most visible in the office previously) will complain and bemoan "lost opportunities to collaborate" to where the decision makers decide that they'll just bring everyone back so.

But what do you want the people who'd rather be back in the office to say?

When they are asked the question of course they should answer it in the best possible way for them.

doc22

BrianD3 wrote: »

As has been pointed out on numerous occasions the "wfh brigade" don't have a problem with people wanting to be in the office as long as they don't try to impose office work on others. My points are absolutely valid. Vested interests are generally disingenuous when it come to lobbying, using other people/hard luck cases to promote their agenda. In the case of WFH, talking about the difficulties people in shoebox apartments have with WFH when in actual fact they don't give a crap about those people.

Sure everyone has vested interest sure one of the prominent posters on here for WFH just had a baby but doesn't mention it in her narrative....

The vast majority of workers don't have office space in their house.

Whatever about the bring everyone into the office crowd I'd hate to have to deal with the WFH forever crowd on here by some of the bitter/twisted comments posted. If they act in the office like they act online they won't be missed WFH.

Naos

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

The original point I was trying to make was that every time I state I am looking forward to getting back to the office I get shouted down and told I am wrong. I think my point has been proven. This is that teams call all over again.

Do you not take the point that in order for you to work from home it comes at the detriment to those who work best in an office environment?

Right - so you're proving the point yet again.

My stance: Everyone should be free to WFH or work in the office as they please. Whatever benefits you, then go for it. You choose.
You on the other hand, want everyone back, at a cost to others, because it will benefit you. How selfish is that?

Instead of bringing others down and forcing your wants onto them, why not figure out how you can make changes within yourself to benefit you.

doc22

Naos wrote: »

Right - so you're proving the point yet again.

My stance: Everyone should be free to WFH or work in the office as they please. Whatever suits you, go for it.
You on the other hand, want everyone back, at a cost to others, because it will benefit you. How selfish is that?

Instead of bringing others down and forcing your wants onto them, why not figure out how you can make changes within yourself to benefit you.

I'd say it benefits him/ other colleagues and the company

irelandrover

Naos wrote: »

Right - so you're proving the point yet again.

My stance: Everyone should be free to WFH or work in the office as they please. Whatever benefits you, then go for it. You choose.
You on the other hand, want everyone back, at a cost to others, because it will benefit you. How selfish is that?

Instead of bringing others down and forcing your wants onto them, why not figure out how you can make changes within yourself to benefit you.

Your stance is you want to do whats best for you. You want WFH as it suits you.

Brian prefers to work from the office. One of the benefits to him is that there are people there.

You are being just as selfish as you are thinking about what is best for you.

Christy42

doc22 wrote: »

I'd say it benefits him/ other colleagues and the company

Because the other colleagues don't know what is good for them and should be dragged in to the office? Why would it be good for the company. They lose motivation among a large proportion of their workers for no benefit. Many people have been doing just fine working from home.

_Kaiser_

irelandrover wrote: »

But what do you want the people who'd rather be back in the office to say?

When they are asked the question of course they should answer it in the best possible way for them.

I'd expect them to adapt to the new ways of working (which aren't that new as WFH/flexible hours/locations have been a thing for ages now - I've been doing it for years), and accept that the overwhelming majority don't want to go back to "how things were" in that regard.

As I illustrated a few pages back, I've moved company, taken on a new team and responsibilities, and started making well-received changes and recommendations all without setting foot in an office.

Times have changed in regards to office working. People need to change too.

Antares35

doc22 wrote: »

Sure everyone has vested interest sure one of the prominent posters on here for WFH just had a baby but doesn't mention it in her narrative....

The vast majority of workers don't have office space in their house.

Whatever about the bring everyone into the office crowd I'd hate to have to deal with the WFH forever crowd on here by some of the bitter/twisted comments posted. If they act in the office like they act online they won't be missed WFH.

Is that me you're talking about? I've been completely honest about the fact that WFH has afforded me more time with my baby. Why would you have a problem with that?? Does it affect you? Bizzare the level of vitriol some posters are willing to stoop to

Ps it was over a year ago

Brian CivilEng

Antares35 wrote: »

You really shouldn't tolerate people shouting you down, it isn't how any adult should conduct him/her self in the workplace or otherwise.

The issue seems to be that people who want an office environment need other people there in order to create said office environment, whereas people who want to WFH don't need other people with them. So, one group relies on others for their needs/ wants, and the other doesn't. Unless you're saying you don't need other people to create an office environment, in which case I would ask the question what environment then are you referring to?

There are people on here for whom working from home suits, who have a legitimate concern that they will be forced back to the office. What I am trying to get across is that those of us for whom working from home does not suit also have a legitimate concern that we will be forced into continuing doing it.

If you like WFH then good for you, I really hope you get to continue doing it. But don't think that it doesn't have a detrimental effect on other people. If I need to collaborate with someone working from home I will find that very difficult, that is a detrimental effect on me, caused by you working from home. I have no right to stop you, I have no right to force you to work from home. But I do have as much as a right as you to the working environment that suits me, so I will vote with my feet and try and gear my job towards an office environment.

I am very fearful that there will be a critical mass achieved of people working from home so that employers decide the office isn't worth it. If that is the way the world is turning then I am in trouble, and need to reconsider my career. But I have as much a right as anyone to air that fear. I don't deserve to be called lazy, or to have my opinion completely overruled for that.

irelandrover

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd expect them to adapt to the new ways of working (which aren't that new as WFH/flexible hours/locations have been a thing for ages now - I've been doing it for years), and accept that the overwhelming majority don't want to go back to "how things were" in that regard.

As I illustrated a few pages back, I've moved company, taken on a new team and responsibilities, and started making well-received changes and recommendations all without setting foot in an office.

Times have changed in regards to office working. People need to change too.

But some people have tried the WFH thing and it just doesn't suit them. They prefer to be in the office.

When they are asked what they want then that's what they should say. The company will then decide whats best for the company.

Antares35

Brian CivilEng wrote: »

But I do have as much as a right as you to the working environment that suits me, so I will vote with my feet and try and gear my job towards an office environment.

Ultimately I think this is what it comes down to for everyone.

namloc1980

irelandrover wrote: »

But some people have tried the WFH thing and it just doesn't suit them. They prefer to be in the office.

When they are asked what they want then that's what they should say. The company will then decide whats best for the company.

A lot of companies, who have seen the overall success of wfh, will likely see employees who want full office based work and want everyone else in the office, as inflexible and not really on board with the direction many companies want to go in.

Backstreet Moyes

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

If you think those people were lazy in the office, you should see them when they are working from home!!

Really and how many people do you sit down and watch working.

Do you peep in through people's windows or do you call into people for a chat which would prevent them from working.

I would think these people are actually benefiting because they need to actually put in effort themselves to get things done.

I really don't get the argument that people are lazy working from home, you are set targets and deadlines like before and you still need to hit the deadlines.

I am really not sure what other way a manager would assess an employee.

We have downtime where things are not overly busy and in the office you are trying to make yourself look busy for the day.

I have a few meetings later on and I am going for a jog now in the lovely weather where if I was in the office I would be sitting pretending to work.

Antares35

Nuts102 wrote: »

Really and how many people do you sit down and watch working.

Do you peep in through people's windows or do you call into people for a chat which would prevent them from working.

I would think these people are actually benefiting because they need to actually put in effort themselves to get things done.

I really don't get the argument that people are lazy working from home, you are set targets and deadlines like before and you still need to hit the deadlines.

I am really not sure what other way a manager would assess an employee.

We have downtime where things are not overly busy and in the office you are trying to make yourself look busy for the day.

I have a few meetings later on and I am going for a jog now in the lovely weather where if I was in the office I would be sitting pretending to work.

Same, the flexibility is fantastic and is based on a relationship of mutual trust. I suppose it requires a certain level of maturity and self discipline. Yesterday I had to attend an appointment so I simply attended. Later on, there were some last minute reports received that needed to be reviewed in time for a meeting this morning, so I stayed up late to get them over the line (as did my boss). It works both ways. I love being in a role where my performance is based on output rather than arbitrary hours with my àrse warming a seat

northy_north

(Uk based) I've opted to go for a wfh 4 days a week, 1 day in the office balance. I have a proper home study, it's more the one day is for a change of scenery and a mind-shift. I've found I don't get as much done when in the office but think the non-measured side of work is important, actually seeing people, getting chat about company news that doesn't make the official channels etc.

Our company was very anti-wfh pre-covid and reluctantly adapted. But a year's worth of data showed what as what. We've hired a few people from very spread out areas of the country since. I'm not sure what the workplace of post-covid will look like, but it won't be the same. Death to open plan offices please!

recyclops

my biggest issue with working from home is he noise during warm weather, be it people out gardening or screaming kids, unfortunately I live in a housing estate so my options are windows open and distracting noises (so much so someone said it on a call) or windows closed and I am uncomfortable

Its a pet peeve of mine so wouldn't be looking to make any changes off the back of it but it also appears to be something people knock back fairly quickly if you bring it up (especially screaming kids), some header was brave enough to mention it in the community whatsapp group :D:D:D

Mrs OBumble

Antares35 wrote: »

Same, the flexibility is fantastic and is based on a relationship of mutual trust. I suppose it requires a certain level of maturity and self discipline. Yesterday I had to attend an appointment so I simply attended. Later on, there were some last minute reports received that needed to be reviewed in time for a meeting this morning,

That is not unique to WFH: When I've been in office-based jobs with flexibility and had to go to an appointment, I just went.

Personally I've found that less flexibile employers usually had policies covering such things eg allowing use of sick leave for doctors appointments. More flexible ones didn't - and they still wanted the work done, even though I was sick.

big syke

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That is not unique to WFH: When I've been in office-based jobs with flexibility and had to go to an appointment, I just went.

Personally I've found that less flexibile employers usually had policies covering such things eg allowing use of sick leave for doctors appointments. More flexible ones didn't - and they still wanted the work done, even though I was sick.

Ah ye nothing as easy as commuting back to the gaf 2 hours away for your appointment and then heading back to the offfice after

Frank Bullitt

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

If you think those people were lazy in the office, you should see them when they are working from home!!

Funny that, people are more productive when they WFH. I have posted some reports and studies about this over the course of this thread.

You are beyond wrong with that statement.

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That is not unique to WFH: When I've been in office-based jobs with flexibility and had to go to an appointment, I just went.

Personally I've found that less flexibile employers usually had policies covering such things eg allowing use of sick leave for doctors appointments. More flexible ones didn't - and they still wanted the work done, even though I was sick.

I never said it was unique to WFH, but it would be hard to square it with your clocking/ stamping card system now wouldn't it

Much easier for me to attend an appointment near my home and then be straight back at work afterwards, instead of traipsing into town again or taking a half day when I only need 90 minutes.

Antares35

big syke wrote: »

Ah ye nothing as easy as commuting back to the gaf 2 hours away for your appointment and then heading back to the offfice after

Something something you should have thought of that and based all your appointments around places near your office, as well as buying a house near your office, and not having kids because your employer didn't ask you to etc.

Antares35

recyclops wrote: »

my biggest issue with working from home is he noise during warm weather, be it people out gardening or screaming kids, unfortunately I live in a housing estate so my options are windows open and distracting noises (so much so someone said it on a call) or windows closed and I am uncomfortable

Its a pet peeve of mine so wouldn't be looking to make any changes off the back of it but it also appears to be something people knock back fairly quickly if you bring it up (especially screaming kids), some header was brave enough to mention it in the community whatsapp group :D:D:D

We don't have kids nearby but have over zealous neighbour who is out with a chainsaw/ lawnmower etc any time the sun shines. I find using the air purifier on full blast helps, the kind of humming/ swooshing noise softens the noise from his garden. Sometimes even the babys white noise machine works But yes definitely a downside! Although where I was pre-covid was along a traffic line and from about 4pm each evening you'd have nothing but pr*cks in their cars honking at each other non stop to hurry up/ go into the box junction etc. It'd last a good two hours. Everyone just super stressed sitting in traffic..worse when the weather was nice too!

givyjoe

krissovo wrote: »

There will be a mix going forward so either camp should not be worried, the biggest issue will be some re-balancing of the workforce while they find a workplace that suits their lifestyle.

My biggest fear is a ridged hybrid model that does not really suit anyone will take hold.

Unfortunately I think that's what will end up happening. Likely what my own employer will go with despite 99% of us WFH for the last year. Mostly works well, and for most teams. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd choose WFH. 2 days WFH only isn't appealing, not least because it will drastically reduce my efficiency due to the nature of my work. Open plan office just isn't conducive to productivity in my role.

Young_gunner

Mr.S wrote: »

1000% agree. WFH is great for these kind of things. My late morning was fairly quiet this morning so I just went out and grabbed a coffee and sat in the sun for an hour until my next meeting. Bliss.

Totally, you get so much value out of your day. And personally I also find that makes you more focussed / driven when you work.

It's the definition of a 'win - win' situation.

Frank Bullitt

Mr.S wrote: »

1000% agree. WFH is great for these kind of things. My late morning was fairly quiet this morning so I just went out and grabbed a coffee and sat in the sun for an hour until my next meeting. Bliss.

My manager is a bit proponent of this. If you aren't doing anything or can't with maybe a hold up, get a book out, go to the gym, take a break , go for a jog/walk, clean the house, do the shopping, all of that.

Even our CEO uses these examples of how our days could be structured. It has taken me a while to get to grips with it, but since I have I get more done in less time and get to do more general life stuff.

It will be great with the summer coming in as well.

jakiah

Mr.S wrote: »

1000% agree. WFH is great for these kind of things. My late morning was fairly quiet this morning so I just went out and grabbed a coffee and sat in the sun for an hour until my next meeting. Bliss.

Im not being smart but this would be fairly normal in an office scenario too. People would often wander out for a coffee in the sun when its quiet. If you couldnt do this in your office it sounds like a bit of a nightmare, no wonder people are so enthusiastic about this "new" WFH setup.

jakiah

jakiah wrote: »

Im not being smart but this would be fairly normal in an office scenario too. People would often wander out for a coffee in the sun when its quiet. If you couldnt do this in your office it sounds like a bit of a nightmare, no wonder people are so enthusiastic about this "new" WFH setup.

There is a certain class of management who see this "idle time" as idleness and someone who needs a kick up the jacksie, these tend to be the same types that hate WFH as they lose that power.