Working From Home Megathread

Fr Tod Umptious

irelandrover wrote: »

Id assume that to comply with tax regulations that the person will be transferred to the foreign office. So that if you want to move to France you join the Paris branch of Facebook. In which case you fall into their pay scales instead of the Irish pay scales.


I cant see Facebook allowing a person in the Warsaw office to earn an Irish salary while sitting beside a person earning the polish salary.

Didn't Facebook propose something like that for their US workers way back at the start of the pandemic

"Sure if you want to leave Silicon Valley and move to Montana that's fine, but we will pay you Montana wages from now on"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/zuckerberg-50percent-of-facebook-employees-could-be-working-remotely.html

Psychedelic Hedgehog

FWIW, the official advice that my company have given us is that we can work abroad for up to two weeks in a single year only if it's a country in which the company has a legal entity, to stay compliant with Irish employment law.

irelandrover

irelandrover wrote: »

Id assume that to comply with tax regulations that the person will be transferred to the foreign office. So that if you want to move to France you join the Paris branch of Facebook. In which case you fall into their pay scales instead of the Irish pay scales.


I cant see Facebook allowing a person in the Warsaw office to earn an Irish salary while sitting beside a person earning the polish salary.

Ya, I'm sure they will adjust pay, but if your ultimate aim was to move to work or move back to where you grew up it would still be a massive game changer.

Psychedelic Hedgehog

Psychedelic Hedgehog wrote: »

FWIW, the official advice that my company have given us is that we can work abroad for up to two weeks in a single year only if it's a country in which the country has a legal entity, to stay compliant with Irish employment law.

I don't know the employment law to be honest but that seems very little time. I know a hell of a lot of people who aren't compliant with that. Two weeks seems way off.

JDD

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know the employment law to be honest but that seems very little time. I know a hell of a lot of people who aren't compliant with that. Two weeks seems way off.

Definitely right that's way off. I work in the public service and have a colleague who worked one day a week from London pre-pandemic. She pays her taxes here, like everyone else. No way our HR department would have allowed that had there been tax implications. One day a week adds up to about 10 weeks of employment.

Supercell

My company is talking about everyone having to wear a mask in the office when we return anytime we move from our desk (go to the canteen, talk to another colleague at another desk, attend meetings etc). Its in a building with closed sealed windows and aircon so that seems utterly pointless to me given all the air is recyled/blown around the place anyhow. I have eczema and face masks/anything on my face irritates the heck out of my skin, do I have any right to argue that as I am fully vaccinated (and obviously can prove it) why should I have to do this?

Try to get a doctor's exemption cert to retain WFH or to exempt the mask wearing, worth a try.

VG31

Supercell wrote: »

My company is talking about everyone having to wear a mask in the office when we return anytime we move from our desk (go to the canteen, talk to another colleague at another desk, attend meetings etc). Its in a building with closed sealed windows and aircon so that seems utterly pointless to me given all the air is recyled/blown around the place anyhow. I have eczema and face masks/anything on my face irritates the heck out of my skin, do I have any right to argue that as I am fully vaccinated (and obviously can prove it) why should I have to do this?

I would have thought masks shouldn't be needed in offices from August or September at the latest. Everyone who wants a vaccine should be fully vaccinated by then. If they're proposing that an office full of vaccinated people should have to wear masks, that's crazy.

I wouldn't mind getting back the office a bit but not until masks are gone.

Mrs OBumble

Supercell wrote: »

My company is talking about everyone having to wear a mask in the office when we return anytime we move from our desk (go to the canteen, talk to another colleague at another desk, attend meetings etc). Its in a building with closed sealed windows and aircon so that seems utterly pointless to me given all the air is recyled/blown around the place anyhow. I have eczema and face masks/anything on my face irritates the heck out of my skin, do I have any right to argue that as I am fully vaccinated (and obviously can prove it) why should I have to do this?

The vaccine stops you from getting very sick.

It does not stop you from infecting others.

Sunny Disposition

If Facebook are insisting workers have to be in the office more than half the time that’s a relatively conservative move from them.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The vaccine stops you from getting very sick.

It does not stop you from infecting others.

A good reason for not going to the office I would say.

Edit:
I have already had a dose (nothing serious, just a bit of isolation) so I will not need the vaccine and cannot spread it and have immunity from catching it again for at best one year.

So I would avoid going anywhere that insists on wearing masks for long periods at a time, that includes shops and offices.

Supercell

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The vaccine stops you from getting very sick.

It does not stop you from infecting others.

Do you mean others who havent availed of the free vaccines?
Well thats their choice, its not my choice to have to wear a mask to protect them.
If you are trying to say its for the safety of the vaccinated then you are saying we should all have to wear these eternally which is another discussion which isnt one i want to get into.

Infoanon

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

If Facebook are insisting workers have to be in the office more than half the time that’s a relatively conservative move from them.

They are not - Facebook are offering permanent remote working and to those who have to come into the office the intention is that even thosr workers will spent 50% of their time on site.

WFH is not new, working remotely from another country is not new either and is prevalent in a number of businesses.
Tax rules etc are well established and employees can be on eg secondment for years.

The Taoiseachs recent statement on returning to the office is exactly the same as what the Tanaiste said a few weeks previous - what was not highlighted in the headlines was the requirements of the return which as it stands include 2m social distancing, mask wearing etc

AdamD

Returning to the office with social distancing and masks is beyond pointless

Though wearing masks when everyone is vaccinated is baffling too

Supercell

AdamD wrote: »

Returning to the office with social distancing and masks is beyond pointless

Though wearing masks when everyone is vaccinated is baffling too

I agree, i get the impression that they are still sounding this out, we are not likely to be returning until late August anyhow so hopefully things will be more sensible by then. Hoping by then we are like Israel now with covid virtually irradicated.

Quin_Dub

Supercell wrote: »

I agree, i get the impression that they are still sounding this out, we are not likely to be returning until late August anyhow so hopefully things will be more sensible by then. Hoping by then we are like Israel now with covid virtually irradicated.

I suspect that it's more down to the fact that they not not have a way of validating your vaccine status right now.

I don't think they can make vaccination mandatory nor can they ask you for your vaccine status.

So , until such time as the Irish Government can confirm that we have reached National herd immunity then most if not all places are going to retain a mask mandate I would think.

Mrs OBumble

Supercell wrote: »

Do you mean others who havent availed of the free vaccines?
Well thats their choice, its not my choice to have to wear a mask to protect them.
If you are trying to say its for the safety of the vaccinated then you are saying we should all have to wear these eternally which is another discussion which isnt one i want to get into.

I hate masks as much as anyone who wears one.

But we need to keep things in perspective. Some people cannot vaccinate, because of other issues they have. It's not always their choice.

JDD

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I hate masks as much as anyone who wears one.

But we need to keep things in perspective. Some people cannot vaccinate, because of other issues they have. It's not always their choice.

True, but you can't have everyone wearing masks forever solely to protect those who are unable to take the vaccine.

I know there are debates about what percentage level means herd immunity, but surely if the vast majority of the office have received their vaccine (and certainly it seems that will be the case by August/September) the chances of infecting a vulnerable co-worker are very low.

And if you are a person who cannot take a vaccine, then you'd have to consider the risks of working in an open plan mask free office environment. It sucks to have such limited career choices but you can't be expecting everyone to wear a mask 24/7 to protect you forever.

givyjoe

JDD wrote: »

True, but you can't have everyone wearing masks forever solely to protect those who are unable to take the vaccine.

I know there are debates about what percentage level means herd immunity, but surely if the vast majority of the office have received their vaccine (and certainly it seems that will be the case by August/September) the chances of infecting a vulnerable co-worker are very low.

And if you are a person who cannot take a vaccine, then you'd have to consider the risks of working in an open plan mask free office environment. It sucks to have such limited career choices but you can't be expecting everyone to wear a mask 24/7 to protect you forever.

They wouldn't be wearing them 24/7 though would they? Come on.. they'd be wearing them public places, such as offices, supermarkets etc.

JTMan

I wonder if this will become more widespread ...

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1402995913182777344?s=19

Quin_Dub

JTMan wrote: »

I wonder if this will become more widespread ...

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1402995913182777344?s=19

A hospital in Houston has suspended ~175 staff pending dismissal for their refusal to get vaccinated.

You also have the stand-off between the Cruise-liner Companies and Texas/Florida over their ability to demand proof of vaccination from people wanting to travel on their ships

I expect we'll see more of this kind of thing.

Not sure about the legal position in Ireland , but I suspect that due to GDPR etc. companies aren't able to insist you reveal your vaccine status.

Hence the likelihood that Mask mandates are probably going to remain in place until well into the Autumn at least.

JTMan

JTMan wrote: »

I wonder if this will become more widespread ...

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1402995913182777344?s=19

Yes, it will be widespread. My company is the exact same for the return to office. There will be an attestation needed re vaccination and if not vaccinated then a daily rapid test will be needed and the result loaded up into an app before coming in each day

The only question is how long it will be in place, and whether it will be needed for the small offices like Dublin in which social distancing can be more easily practiced (no elevators etc, unlike NYC and Canary Wharf)

AdamD

I'd be shocked if that's not illegal in Ireland.

givyjoe

Quin_Dub wrote: »

A hospital in Houston has suspended ~175 staff pending dismissal for their refusal to get vaccinated.

You also have the stand-off between the Cruise-liner Companies and Texas/Florida over their ability to demand proof of vaccination from people wanting to travel on their ships

I expect we'll see more of this kind of thing.

Not sure about the legal position in Ireland , but I suspect that due to GDPR etc. companies aren't able to insist you reveal your vaccine status.

Hence the likelihood that Mask mandates are probably going to remain in place until well into the Autumn at least.

That doesn't make any sense considering EU are deploying that travel pass, isn't the whole point of that system to allow vaccinated folks to travel freely? Isn't GDPR an EU invention?

Quin_Dub

givyjoe wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense considering EU are deploying that travel pass, isn't the whole point of that system to allow vaccinated folks to travel freely? Isn't GDPR an EU invention?

Perhaps , but I think there's a difference in a Government provided ID/Cert that you opt-in to vs. your employer demanding to know your personal health details before they'll let you back in the office.

JDD

givyjoe wrote: »

They wouldn't be wearing them 24/7 though would they? Come on.. they'd be wearing them public places, such as offices, supermarkets etc.

Well perhaps 24/7 is an over-exaggeration, but given I leave the house to take a train at 8am, spend a normal day at work, and then am on the train for an hour on the way home, that would mean I could be mask wearing for 11 hours on weekdays. Add in time spent in the shops or a restaurant or pub you'd definitely be wearing a mask for the large part of your waking hours.

I don't know how many people out there are so immune-compromised that the can't take a vaccine, but I imagine it's a very small number. Would it not be better for them to work in a closed off area in the office than insist that everyone else in the building, who is now vaccinated, wear a mask?

Chris_5339762

When our group got vaccinated, we had to send details of the dates we received 1st and 2nd doses to management. Some people refused, they were hounded out of it until they complied.

Frank Bullitt

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you regard all laws as optional?

Or just ones regarding employee rights?

You're the only one mentioning any kind of law.

You do this in the face of the numerous studies that show WFH is more productive and people want it now, and for the future.

How is that bad or against someones rights? Just have a think about that for a sec there...

Supercell

The argument that we should wear them to protect those who cannot get the vaccine holds little water. There are multiple types of vaccines, if there are people allergic to all then surely they are allergic to pretty much every other vaccine?
Or are so immunocompromised that they would be better off working at home anyhow instead of breathing office recycled air.
We haven't had to wear masks in the office for such individuals up until now so I imagine the numbers of these people are vanishingly small or have already got WFH agreements in place.

If it's to protect anti-vaxxers, why?, scientific discourse is clearly pointless:

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1402729557136969728?s=20


Once Autumn comes and there are tiny numbers being admitted to hospital, if any, hopefully common sense will prevail and the masks in the office debate will be moot.

Mrs OBumble

JDD wrote: »

.... if the vast majority of the office have received their vaccine (and certainly it seems that will be the case by August/September) the chances of infecting a vulnerable co-worker are very low.

And if you are a person who cannot take a vaccine, then you'd have to consider the risks of working in an open plan mask free office environment. It sucks to have such limited career choices but you can't be expecting everyone to wear a mask 24/7 to protect you forever.

Again, the vaccine stops you from getting very sick. It does not stop you from infecting others. Meaning it is irrelevant in assessing the risk you pose to others.

A medical condition which means you cannot be vaccinated is likely classified as a disability. Employers are specifically required to make reasonable accommodations to stop people with disabilities having limited career choices. Spaced out, well ventilated offices, with mask use when this is compromised, sounds very reasonable to me.