Working From Home Megathread

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669562#Comment_117669562

Yes everything is a managers fault, people cannot be responsible for themselves there always must be someone else to blame,

am i doing it right?

and glad you are so happy, it is uplifting to hear. Im sure the cat is well fed :D

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669645#Comment_117669645

Yes, you can keep your well informed experience over reports that take metrics and data across continents from thousands of workers and you can keep going against the grain...sounds like a swell little world of ignorant bliss right there 😘

And yes, heaven forbid I get support for WFH when that is what a lot of people have had to do over the past 18 months, how dare I!

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669650#Comment_117669650

Well the manager is indeed responsible for their teams results and performance...soooooooo the buck does indeed stop with them.

Good managers don't have much to worry about though if they do things right.

Myself and the wife have been saving for ages to buy a place where we are at the moment, 15 mins outside Galway. We saved our deposit and were just waiting for a property to become available locally.

Nothing coming on to the market for ages and anything that did come on was either too expensive, not what we wanted or we were outbid.

Then the wife says "but why do we need to be 15 mins from Galway if you are going to WFH for the rest of your career".

Frikkin lightbulb moment when I stupidly said ohhhh yeahhhhh

So we expanded our search and within 2 days viewed something we liked and just waiting on the keys now. We've ended up with something that cost less than where we are, is 30% bigger than what we could afford locally, is right on multiple local bus routes, high BER rating, close to all required amenities and located where we'll never need to own a car ever again.

Ye can whine and moan all ye like about trying to get folks back into the office, but this is the type of power and freedom WFH gives to employees and there are few who will give it up easily if it aligns with their life choices.

Standard caveat applies that WFH does not suit everyone (farcical that I have to state this, but it saves having to listen to whataboutery)

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669709#Comment_117669709

im sure you know all about good management. you don't need me to tell you.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669751#Comment_117669751

Pretty confident I know more than you, on evidence in this thread so far. 😉

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669790#Comment_117669790

i have no doubt that you think you do 😂

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669818#Comment_117669818

But of course, please keep giving us your vast experience on the failings of WFH. We need a counter argument to the reports from thousands of works across the globe. For balance, you see.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669829#Comment_117669829

No need for the hyperbole, you are running away with yourself a little and there are plenty of contrary reports frank, you just arent looking for them. What did David Solomon say, its an aberration.

I'm not totally against working from home, it has its uses, but in my opinion and in my professional experience a predominantly office based setting has proven more productive and a better environment and thats what we will be going back to. Anyone who doesnt like that is free to vote with their feet of course.

caviardreams

The manager is responsible for underperforance and the results?

Not really

The manager is responsible for setting objectives, deadlines, asking people to do the work, offering any support or help needed, but if Mary/Bob "chooses" not to do the work, and doesn't flag for help or support to help her achieve the objectives, then it's 100% on Mary/Bob and not the manager. A manager can't control the choices an employee makes - they can try and influence them sure, but control, no. That's Mary's choice, and she is responsible for whatever choice she makes herself i.e. to work or not to work

Very few work environments want to tackle the likes of Bob/Mary head-on, especially not public service, or during a pandemic where stress can be brought out as a factor in the WRC etc. so often there is little to do about resolving the issue except added paperwork so the manager is covered that they asked/followed up/check Mary was ok/ checked Bob/Mary needed support etc. A drain on management resources if an employee doesn't engage or perform, and can take longer in a WFH context.

If an underperformer is required to work on site, they will still under-perform most likely but if they have to be at the desk for 7 hours, chances are they'll tip away and do a few bits to pass the time. If they are at home, there's no consequences and a lot more distraction/temptation, not even the awkwardness of facing their manager or being doorstopped every day for missed deadlines from colleagues. It plays into the hands of avoidant underperformed as they get to escape the tough conversations.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669854#Comment_117669854

Of course I look for them, they are in the minority when you look at it in the scheme of things.

As for the "what we will be going back to", that would be totally industry dependant. My industry (design, software, engineering) is probably not going to be doing that. The demand for UI/UX, full stack devs, engineers etc has put the ball in the employees court and remote work is a big factor in that.

People are already voting with their feet in parts of America, just look at what Google had to do recently. My old place of employment is seeing the same with both losing staff and finding it hard to compete with office work being mandatory.

If companies want the best staff, they will have to compete with companies that offer WFH, which in turn opens up your talent pool.

Again, the benefits of WFH come good.

@[Deleted User]

@[Deleted User]

"So we expanded our search and within 2 days viewed something we liked and just waiting on the keys now. We've ended up with something that cost less than where we are, is 30% bigger than what we could afford locally, is right on multiple local bus routes, high BER rating, close to all required amenities and located where we'll never need to own a car ever again."

Congrats on the house! 🏡

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669739#Comment_117669739

Brilliant, congratulations.

But...GDPR? 😁

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117667823#Comment_117667823

Have you ever heard of initiative? Innovation? Self-development?

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671933#Comment_117671933

Yes I have heard of them, but I am not sure how you need those to be classed as a good worker.

You are assigned tasks and completing them on time is what you are expected to do and paid to do, therefore a good worker.

machaseh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117669879#Comment_117669879

I obtained my current role during covid times last year. I have NEVER been to my office. Ever. And so far I have not gotten ill comments about my performance. Hence I see no reason to 'return' to the office as in my current role I have never been there.

I have been approached by multiple companies on linkedin by recruiters. First thing I ask is 'remote?'. If not then I will not further engage with them. Simple as that. I am currently happy in my current role.

My current role is also not permanent remote. But the difference with any other role is: I already HAVE it. Hence I am keeping it for the time being, until I find something with more remote possibilities.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117671933#Comment_117671933

I didn't think you would be a big fan of Innovation

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672074#Comment_117672074

Well my performance agreement either has or had targets around all three.

If I didn't do them, I would be failing to do my job.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117673376#Comment_117673376

Soooooo you are just saying that people have to do their job. Right.

A good worker does a lot more than just hit deadlines at minimum quality though. - Like what?

Have you ever heard of initiative? Innovation? Self-development? - These should equally be offered by the employer, implying an employee has to go above and beyond what is asked of them (which only benefits the employer) is a daft.

JTMan

Google have pushed back their reopening to 18 October. Another company pushing back to October.

Mandatory vaccination for staff returning to the office.

CapriciousOne

Facebook requiring vaccinations also

https://techcrunch.com/2021/07/28/facebook-will-require-employees-to-be-vaccinated-before-returning-to-campus/?tpcc=ECTW2020&guccounter=1

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675719#Comment_117675719

Currently not legal in Ireland for mandatory vaccination (or anywhere in the EU if our DPCs interpretation of GDPR is correct) so that'll likely just be the US

is_that_so

Eamonn Ryan saying return to office from September is likely.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0729/1237934-ireland-coronavirus/

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117677130#Comment_117677130

Only in US not legal here

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678297#Comment_117678297

GDPR would prevent that, anti-discrimination laws too.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678319#Comment_117678319

It's private health data and an employer cannot ask you about it. Constitution also covers bodily integrity.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678359#Comment_117678359

There is no law that allows that. It's also a court case in the making and it is setting conditions for work that didn't already exist. It is none of their business legally and you couldn't see that getting through the Dail or even past the AG. The only place it could be argued is in high risk scenarios but it still can't be forced.

JTMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117677818#Comment_117677818

Interesting that Eamonn has said that work from home restrictions are likely to be lifted in September but does not name a specific date in September.

Interesting that he says that it must be a "gradual" return and "hybrid" - no big bangs.

He also says that it must be done "safe" - is that coded language for social distancing between desks and masks indoors? When will "safe" be clarified?

I think a little more clarify is needed before companies name a date and put in place policies.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117678437#Comment_117678437

For the end of July vague is good enough. It is a signal for people to start looking at that and it won't be on 1st September. You'd imagine where possible people will have a hybrid model.

Government ministers really need to be careful with their words, telling employers to get people back in the offices is not a good idea as it implies that employers should "bring them in", WFH has proven to be successful for many who have been pushed into doing it by the original restrictions.

The lifting of those restrictions should be related to the end of the restrictions in social distancing, masks and the like.

Going back to the office while covid restrictions are still being enforced, will not be accepted by the majority of staff, it makes for a difficult & stressful working environment.

The return to normal working will never be the same and this needs to be recognised, pulling people back into the offices will cause a lot of dismay for those who have successfully made the transition to WFH. Managers who feel the need to see their staff "working" will need to reevaluate their management style as they will risk losing their staff.