Working From Home Megathread

Dyr

Ireland has one of the most lopsided populations in Europe. If we're serious about addressing housing, tranpsort, rural depopulation etc then WFH is an obvious method. Obviously service industries in city centres and business parks will suffer as a result.

Jim Root

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I beg to differ on that, but that's not the point I was making.

I was just giving an example of occupational health doctors getting involved and certifying high/very high risk public sector workers fit to go back to work, for @Pink11.

Private sector companies can do what they like.

But in my experience the general public will always want their pound of flesh from the public sector and there is no trust that we can work as effectively from home as we can from an office space.

Hence the pressure to return will be applied, and has started, in some areas.

Ive seen posts on here from public servants moaning about not being equipped with X,Y and Z so no wonder they are being called back in.

I think a hybrid model is the way to go, don’t think many companies will survive attracting top people if they force them into the office Mon-Fri, flexibility is key here I think.

beauf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...

But in my experience the general public will always want their pound of flesh from the public sector and there is no trust that we can work as effectively from home as we can from an office space. ..

Why trust. You should be able to demonstrate that productivity had improved or stayed the same. Have your waiting lists gone down. Have you delivered the same level of service.

Covid has made no difference to us. Productivity probably went up. We have a list of projects all delivered during Covid. Some services stopped because they required physical things like 3rd party printing that had closed down. Id say the level of organisation and management improved as people had to be seen to be busy.

People who don't like this level of transparency are dying to get back to the office so they can do everything behind closed doors again. Also those who like to do everything verbally and unplanned. You know the people who waste days playing phone call bingo rather than sending an email.

beauf

Jim Root wrote: »

Ive seen posts on here from public servants moaning about not being equipped with X,Y and Z so no wonder they are being called back in.

I think a hybrid model is the way to go, don’t think many companies will survive attracting top people if they force them into the office Mon-Fri, flexibility is key here I think.

We struggled hiring and getting contractors before Covid because we refused WFH for many people for no good reason.

I've always been able to work from home if I needed the odd day here and there. Before lockdown are start of the year I needed a week maybe two of WFH due to circumstances. I was told that it was a once off. I had about a month in the office after that, and it's now 6 months since I've been in the office.

In previous jobs, contracts I've had 3/2 in office/home arrangement. That seemed to be much better than 100% at home for me anyway.

capefear

https://www.hubspot.com/careers-blog/future-of-work-hybrid?fbclid=IwAR2_fjuUXG6W43h8qZrgn-K14brBn6lnP4y-cbQW4GvtvY9VTvZRwhBKluc


I'd say alot of companies will follow what hubspot are doing and it will be a mixture of home and office depending on the employees preference.

From clients we deal with and have spoken to, they are looking to get out off their lease or sublet it if possible as all they need is a meeting room and some smaller offices for the staff members who cant work from home. The days of the big offices are gone for the private sector, look at facebook renting AIB ballsbridge spending millions furnishing it and now saying that they will have 50% of capitacy only as they want staff to work from home.

Some employees that we speak to want to go back to the office one or two days a week but thats more from a social aspect as they miss going for lunches etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens in a couple of months time, as I know at least 6 people who have purchased houses since covid and have bought outside of Dublin and they are thrilled as before covid this wasnt an option and they still keep their dublin salaries as there bosses have no plans to bring them back to the offices bar maybe one day a week/month in the new year.

Jim Root

capefear wrote: »

https://www.hubspot.com/careers-blog/future-of-work-hybrid?fbclid=IwAR2_fjuUXG6W43h8qZrgn-K14brBn6lnP4y-cbQW4GvtvY9VTvZRwhBKluc


I'd say alot of companies will follow what hubspot are doing and it will be a mixture of home and office depending on the employees preference.

From clients we deal with and have spoken to, they are looking to get out off their lease or sublet it if possible as all they need is a meeting room and some smaller offices for the staff members who cant work from home. The days of the big offices are gone for the private sector, look at facebook renting AIB ballsbridge spending millions furnishing it and now saying that they will have 50% of capitacy only as they want staff to work from home.

Some employees that we speak to want to go back to the office one or two days a week but thats more from a social aspect as they miss going for lunches etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens in a couple of months time, as I know at least 6 people who have purchased houses since covid and have bought outside of Dublin and they are thrilled as before covid this wasnt an option and they still keep their dublin salaries as there bosses have no plans to bring them back to the offices bar maybe one day a week/month in the new year.

Interesting point, will there be a downward pressure on salaries as companies may no longer be forced to pay “Dublin” salaries...few heads in my place have already moved down the country and I’ve raised this exact point.

capefear

Jim Root wrote: »

Interesting point, will there be a downward pressure on salaries as companies may no longer be forced to pay “Dublin” salaries...few heads in my place have already moved down the country and I’ve raised this exact point.

Its hard to call, the companies we deal with are paying Dublin salaries regardless of where employee are based once its in Ireland. They only care that the work is done correctly.

My fear would be that when things settle, that some employers will look at it from the point of view that Im paying Joe Bloggs 60-80K a year plus employers prsi of 11.05% and they are based down the country and there are no issues and I never see them face to face, could the employer then say well I could get three people in poland to do the same job for half the cash.

jrosen

capefear wrote: »

Its hard to call, the companies we deal with are paying Dublin salaries regardless of where employee are based once its in Ireland. They only care that the work is done correctly.

My fear would be that when things settle, that some employers will look at it from the point of view that Im paying Joe Bloggs 60-80K a year plus employers prsi of 11.05% and they are based down the country and there are no issues and I never see them face to face, could the employer then say well I could get three people in poland to do the same job for half the cash.

Already happening.

event

subpar wrote: »

Whilst there are some positives from working at home in my experience the negatives far out number the positives . Many employers can see the cost savings associated with home working and are trying to sell the idea to their employees. However Workers should consider the following.

Using your own light , heat and power for someone else's gain.
Feeding yourself , instead of using the company coffee station , canteen , kitchen and water cooler.
If you slip , trip or fall at home , its your fault and your employer is not liable.
Working from home encourages the " always on" culture.
Most homes do not have the space to dedicate room for a permanent work station or mini office.
Isolation can have a negative impact on mental health.

The reason why home working is able to operate during this lockdown is that the work teams , groups and relationships now being used were created , fostered and developed in the office , they can not be created off line or in a permanent home working environment.

A workforce no matter if small , medium or large were recruited as individuals. When did you last see a recruitment advertisment for a Team

Do you think WFH only started with COVID or something? Preposterous post the

MrMusician18

BrianD3 wrote: »

You should believe it. Many public servants have been ordered back, I should know as I was one of them. I also know many public servants in various depts and organisations who have been told to return to the office. This has caused a huge amount of bad feeling. This ordering back has been going on since June.

This is backed up by posts from public servants on the Work and Jobs forum etc.

For balance, some have said the exact opposite, they were told they could/must WFH until September and beyond. There does appear to be wild variation. But to reiterate, many public servants who were working successfully from home have been told to get back to the office.

There is going to be a huge push from government to get civil servants back into the city, similar to what the UK is doing. Entire city centre economies are built up around servicing office workers, from cleaning and catering, to pubs and the after works drinks. The UK government has told it's Civil servants refusing to return, that it will negatively affect their promotional opportunities - expect the same here

Stifling promotion is the only way I'd be convinced it would be worth my while to return. That said WfH had left me almost a grand per month up after tax, so it will be tough for me to return.

Quin_Dub

capefear wrote: »

Its hard to call, the companies we deal with are paying Dublin salaries regardless of where employee are based once its in Ireland. They only care that the work is done correctly.

My fear would be that when things settle, that some employers will look at it from the point of view that Im paying Joe Bloggs 60-80K a year plus employers prsi of 11.05% and they are based down the country and there are no issues and I never see them face to face, could the employer then say well I could get three people in poland to do the same job for half the cash.

That's no more or less likely to happen with WFH than it is without.

If it's cheaper for someone to work from home in Poland it's cheaper for them to work there in an office

tobefrank321

I think post covid, if someone wants to work form home, they should have a legal right to do so, unless their employer can categorically prove their productivity will be negatively affected.

Working from home would solve huge problems. A city like Galway with more working from home, they probably wouldn't need the bypass. The M50 in Dublin would also quieten down. And quality of life would improve dramatically for those who commute to Dublin's city centre from the midlands or west Leinster counties.

I've yet to see any reports of productivity being down from WFH. In some cases its probably improved as you no longer have people standing around chatting at the water fountain for hours on end talking about Love Island etc

Pink11

Thanks again for all the replies. Dr has asked (in writing) that his employer consider extending WFH options to him due to the health condition.
The fact the job is completed 100% accurately from home, being a big point in our case. The gov guideline is pretty much 'if you can WFH, please do'.

If he worked in retail or healthcare for e.g, then it would be unavoidable and he'd have to go back.

GDK_11

I’m genuinely surprised how many seem to think WFH will become the norm and half the country will leave Dublin retaining the same salary (I think Facebook have already said your salary will reflect where you live in the states).

Pre COVID I worked from home a couple of days a week so am well used to it, that suits me fine but I find every day hard going. If you have young kids it’s really difficult to get a full days work in, in my opinion.

I think the government will want the majority of us back in the office to boost the economy, there is the environmental issue to consider but regardless of what politicians say you can be sure it will come down to money.

Either way there are sure to be changes, though I do feel these will be less than many anticipate.

beauf

GDK_11 wrote: »

I’m genuinely surprised how many seem to think WFH will become the norm and half the country will leave Dublin retaining the same salary (I think Facebook have already said your salary will reflect where you live in the states).

Pre COVID I worked from home a couple of days a week so am well used to it, that suits me fine but I find every day hard going. If you have young kids it’s really difficult to get a full days work in, in my opinion.

I think the government will want the majority of us back in the office to boost the economy, there is the environmental issue to consider but regardless of what politicians say you can be sure it will come down to money.

Either way there are sure to be changes, though I do feel these will be less than many anticipate.

Each to their own. But certainly long term working from home is very different to short term.

sp00k

Netflix boss: Remote working has negative effects

My company has closed our office and told us we're working from home permanently now. Not sure how I feel about it - I do like working from home, but as someone else pointed out, what's to stop them from replacing me with someone in another country for a fraction of the wages.

capefear

Mr.S wrote: »

This was happening even pre-covid. It's not always a race to the bottom for payroll.

Any job can effectively be done cheaper somewhere else in the world, always has been. But I don't think we're going to see a mass change anytime soon with Irish employers shipping everything further east just because people are working from home more. Remote work / working from home isn't a new thing, especially with companies who are more likely to look elsewhere for hires.

100% agree I dont think we will see a mass change soon and most of the clients we deal with are happy with WFH with the option to use an office if needed for meetings etc. Before covid I had a couple of clients who would never dream of allowing WFH and not they wont allow staff to work in the office as they cant believe how happy everyone is.

average_runner

sp00k wrote: »

Netflix boss: Remote working has negative effects

My company has closed our office and told us we're working from home permanently now. Not sure how I feel about it - I do like working from home, but as someone else pointed out, what's to stop them from replacing me with someone in another country for a fraction of the wages.

Quality of staff in those countries are rubbish. Yet to hear a success story with ones I worked with

Harry Palmr

Google have abandoned plan to lease 200k sq feet of property as stay at home becomes policy

Quin_Dub

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Google have abandoned plan to lease 200k sq feet of property as stay at home becomes policy

To be expected - It's an opportunity to shift the focus to urban living instead of every building being Office blocks.

Start building/converting sites into decent high quality urban homes.

average_runner

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Google have abandoned plan to lease 200k sq feet of property as stay at home becomes policy

Home policy till mid June 2021, same as most IT companies.
They get a better deal later on if needs

average_runner

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be expected - It's an opportunity to shift the focus to urban living instead of every building being Office blocks.

Start building/converting sites into decent high quality urban homes.

Demand for in the city will lessen now.

BrianD3

Hopefully there is a big shift towards home working in the private sector - as it becomes the norm, this might actually force improvement in work practices in the public sector with public sector managers forced to accept that it isn't the 1970s anymore.

If there is widespread WFH and the public sector is still bringing Mary into the office to print out emails "for the file" and so that she buys a ham sandwich in a deli at lunch time, it is going to be a laughing stock. Also it won't even work to support business.

Also the public sector should be leading the way when it comes to implementing enviromental and climate change polices (afaik there are legal obligations on the sector to do so) and trying to get away from pointless commuting is surely a big part of that.

mohawk

Mr.S wrote: »

It's hard to find a fault with a hybrid model. The only one I can think of is "lack of buzz around the office".

Monday's and Friday's are a ghost-town in our offices and then mid-week can often be fairly quiet as people change the days they come into the office. You generally get about a day a week where there's some atmosphere in the office. Not an issue for some people, others it is.

How that translates into business performance is anyone's guess.

There's going to be big bucks in organising off-site team get-togethers in the future, that's for sure.

At the moment there is no buzz around my office. I go into the office once a week. We are in masks and every second desk is blocked off. They take the 2m social distancing to the max. Showing someone something is literally impossible. You sit miles apart from others in canteen.
Hopefully post Covid the craic returns back to the office because it’s miserable there now.

In ideal world I would love the hybrid model. Less time in car. More sleep. Feels like a better work life balance. I am there when my son leaves for school and gets home. I would probably feel differently if my son was a few years younger.

Tenzor07

average_runner wrote: »

Demand for the city will lessen now.

FYP: Demand for the city will drop now.. No need to have all the businesses open which supported these offices and their workers.

Cina

Any word on whether the current guidelines will extend past September 13th? I know if it's not made official then my employer will no doubt have us straight back into the office every 2nd day even if 300 new cases get announced.

MrMusician18

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Google have abandoned plan to lease 200k sq feet of property as stay at home becomes policy

That's actually a huge shift really for Google as their policy really was to provide staff with an attractive office with all the amenities there so you never leave.

beauf

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's actually a huge shift really for Google as their policy really was to provide staff with an attractive office with all the amenities there so you never leave.

Maybe they realize that (some) people are more productive and work longer at home.

Quin_Dub

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's actually a huge shift really for Google as their policy really was to provide staff with an attractive office with all the amenities there so you never leave.

beauf wrote: »

Maybe they realize that (some) people are more productive and work longer at home.

Indeed - We may see a shift to them (and others) offering things like free or subsidised Home Delivery food kits etc. to replace the free food on campus.

The aim being to reduce the amount of time away from your desk - whether that's leaving the building to buy lunch or going to the kitchen to prepare dinner.

We'll definitely see the "packages" changing to reflect a WFH world over the next 12-18 months

Tenzor07

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Indeed - We may see a shift to them (and others) offering things like free or subsidised Home Delivery food kits etc. to replace the free food on campus.
The aim being to reduce the amount of time away from your desk - whether that's leaving the building to buy lunch or going to the kitchen to prepare dinner.
We'll definitely see the "packages" changing to reflect a WFH world over the next 12-18 months

More likely that Google and other big tech companies like them will start offering to change workers contracts from Irish to whichever country they are from to allow the workers to move back home fully.
After all, why have big empty offices costing €millions in payments when you don't need them?
Google could retain a small rented workspace in Dublin for tax purposes with a handful of staff.
And if all that works i'd expect any of the big multinationals to follow suit and close offices in Ireland as they have proven WFH to be a big success.