Working From Home Megathread

Flinty997

Our head guy has done a U-turn in the last month, and now wants us back in the office most of the time. Despite us having a certain amount of WFH long before COVID.

Be interesting to see what push back there is. I think there's going sudden surge in interest in the right to disconnect, and people being a lot less flexible.

In one of my old jobs, a new manager had a problem with flexible approach to the clock, people working late, getting time back in lieu etc. Decided to stop all that, for strict time keeping. That started people watching the clock, no one was flexible and productivity suffered badly. That mindset of people clock watching slowed spread around the whole company as people started being inflexible to each other.

One thing is clear today from the London experience, is that Fridays are over as an office day. I have heard CEOs grudgingly acknowledge the same over recent days, including those of the US banks that want people back. At the same time they have been bemoaning the fact that that means that Thursday afternoons in the office will be like Friday afternoons used to be.

My partner has been going into work the London office this week, and train has been busy. This morning it was apparently empty....as empty as the days when offices were not open. So I think that the vast majority of office workers can expect, at the very minimum, Fridays at home

moycullen14

If you work in a sh*tty environment then, chances are, you'll put up with doing whatever the boss wants. I mean, you're happy to put up with cr*p, so you'll probably be happy to put up with a bit more.

I do wonder how many of the 'I'm never going back' brigade (and I'd include myself in that) will stick to their guns when ordered back. Is it really a resigning issue?

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871791#Comment_117871791

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Sometimes people will put up with crap for a long time but one day that extra bit of crap just becomes too much and they jump ship. Same with WFH. If people get called back in and they were much happier WFH they will likely still go back into the office but if they hear from friends and family that loads of places are still doing WFH or a mix of WFH and office that might be the push they need to leave.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871314#Comment_117871314

I think that definitely will be the case. When I worked in London most people did 2 days a week at home and almost no-one came in on Fridays. We were a fairly young team of 12 people so would come in to go for drinks after work - but we'd often be the only team in that day, in a department close to 200 headcount.

I stopped going in on Friday's eventually because the incentive to go in i.e. collaborate with other teams face to face wasn't there anymore.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871791#Comment_117871791

If the last 18 months has shown me anything, is that people will quit over very minor issues where a lack of respect is shown towards them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117872691#Comment_117872691

My company has gone as far as banning internal meetings on Fridays, unless absolutely essential. And that’s a global company with 25,000 employees. It’s refreshing to know that Fridays each week are going to be desk days that can be done literally anywhere that you can perch a laptop

Well, not banning I suppose, but strongly dissuading, direct from the CEO, such that you’d look like an absolute d*ck if you tried to arrange one

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117872769#Comment_117872769

My place did something like that about 3 years ago. Same for meetings in the last hour of the day, Mon-Thu.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870229#Comment_117870229

Like me - or like all the companies in the Guardian article I linked to.

Good vs bad managers / companies isn't nearly as clear-cut as some would believe. A lot comes down to the situation, and also the personalities + professional maturity of people on the team.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874070#Comment_117874070

I’m sorry Mrs O’B, as much as you seem to delight in this stuff, they are bad companies that do this, and bad management. They are companies run by leaders who have lost control of their organisation and performance management processes such that they grasp at the perceived easy option of control rather than generating positive motivation

titan18

Where I work has gone with minimum of 40% of your time in the office. Doesn't have to be done in the same week but across the month it has to.

They've also said they reserve the right to physically check your home working environment, which is that actually legal? Had a bit of a wtf when I read it.

Naos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871791#Comment_117871791

Depends. A few I know will 100% leave if they have to go back. Now that doesn't mean they will leave right away with nothing lined up, that would be stupid.

But they will be job hunting and they will be leaving because WFH for them is now a key requirement to their work/life balance.

It's akin to having a car. Before you had one, you managed fine on buses, cycling, trains, taxi's etc. Never new any different. Then you get a car and suddenly, your life changes, overnight. You can go where you want and as far as you want, when you want. You're not reliant on someone elses timetable or the direction they want to take. You don't have to keep an eye on the time for the last bus or train. You don't have to walk or run in the rain to make your connection.

I couldn't live without my car now and I could not go back to the office full time either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874103#Comment_117874103

They are required to ensure your work space is safe. For my work it was 2 photos of my desk area showing everything including the chair, taken at 2 different angles and heights

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874133#Comment_117874133

that's a really great analogy! so true too. how can anyone accept commuting is now necessary for the vast bulk of office jobs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874070#Comment_117874070

It is clear cut as some would believe. You can work in a toxic environment with micro managers who don't trust their employees and act like since there paying your wages they own you and need to bend over backwards and be available out of hours for calls without any extra pay.

Or you can work in a fun environment with great work colleagues and management who respect and trust their employees, respect work life balance and setup Rota's where people opt in to be on call and get paid an extra 25% for been on call.

I know which company I'd rather be working in as I've been in both scenarios.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874133#Comment_117874133

Can't beat the freedom of your own motor, for sure.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874145#Comment_117874145

Tick box safety management - fairly meaningless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875123#Comment_117875123

I’m not sure that the poster was suggesting that they want to ever drive into the office

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875123#Comment_117875123

deliberately miss the point much?

The daily commute is also one of the biggest advantages of working from home. Sure there are downsides, but if you have been used to spending an hour + getting to work in the morning, and another hour getting home....

10 hours a week, not only unpaid, but you're paying to sit in that traffic.

stephenjmcd

Looks like of my team of 6 within an overall team of 20 or so we're in Mondays (get all our weekly meetings done between the team face to face) and then hybrid working during the week, work it out between ourselves, personally I'll probably do 4 days a week in the office, I'm more productive in the office and WFH just doesn't suit me for a variety of reasons. Consensuss seems to be between most of the team that they'll do at least 3 days a week in the office.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874302#Comment_117874302

I think Mrs OBumble is just really bad at picking companies to work for

Nordner

Ads on radio and in newspapers continuously promoting Remote Working and Rural Hubs as does the governments policy document on The Future of Work.

However, the public body I work in are refusing to offer staff full time remote working, despite the fact we have done so successfully for 18 months and our presence is not required in the office. They are in favour of Blended Working only.

I am originally from Donegal and would like to move home and avail of one of the local rural hubs. Blended working not much good if I have to commute from Donegal to Dublin a couple of days a week.

Are any of the rest of you in a similar position and, if so, have you engaged with your Management or your Union?

I would very much like to see if we could get together and try and negotiate some kind of blanket policy across the Public Sector in relation to this issue which could be beneficial to everyone.

Thanks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875677#Comment_117875677

This has consistently been my point regarding hybrid working, its the worst option as you only get a few of the benefits but have all of the downsides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875127#Comment_117875127

It's a legal requirement to ensure that the workplace is a safe environment and plenty of companies have been fined for not adhering over the years

Regardless of where your desk might be located, the same requirements apply, so no, it's not a box ticking exercise

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875677#Comment_117875677

About a decade ago the government under Bertie Ahern spent a fortune in public money in a failed attempt at decentralization of public sector jobs away from Dublin

decentralisation is still official government policy so you could make the argument that remote working is the 21st century version of decentralization and it can be delivered cheaply, organically and without forcing people to relocate en masse or change roles within the civil service

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875741#Comment_117875741

How is it worse than being in the office all the time? It still gives options…..maybe not as many, but flexibility is not a bad thing. Sure Donegal or Kerry are off the table from a hybrid working scenario, but there are plenty of other options. Co Sligo will work well for me, for example, for a couple days in Dublin a week, staying overnight with family friends

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875677#Comment_117875677

One of the questions (see below) in the right to request remote work consultation covered this scenario so hopefully there will be something in the legislation. I would wait for the legislation and be prepared to play hardball and go to the WRC. If the legislation is weak you'll be relying on the union. If the union is of no assistance then you might be heading towards resignation. The problem with resignation is that many public bodies are dysfunctional and there is such apathy around providing a good service that nobody gives a crap if a top performer resigns or not.

Question from consultation document:

"Is it acceptable that an employer offers an alternative hybrid working pattern with a combination of remote work and onsite work, in response to any request for remote working? (For example, if an employee is requesting 50% remote working and an employer wishes to offer 20% or a lower percentage than the amount requested?"

I hope that everyone here made submissions and answered this question. Hybrid working for 2 days per week in a case where a job can be done 100% remotely is a way for the employer to jerk you around and keep the foot in the door for calling you back to the office fulltime for spurious reasons.

Unnecessary hybrid working should be no more acceptable than denying WFH completely. If an employer insists on full time office work or on hybrid/blended work, justification should be needed in either case with "operational reasons" or "at the discretion of management" not cutting it as justification.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875753#Comment_117875753

That's exactly my point, that the same requirements apply regardless of where your desk is.

So when your desk was in the office, you had an ergonomist sit with you, talk to you about your work practices, look at your chair, how adjustable it is, your desk, your monitor, your desk and more. When your desk is at home, you send in two photos.

That's tick boxing, the company trying to cover themselves for legal liability, rather than actually being effective at provide a safe environment.

Nordner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875786#Comment_117875786

Sounds like a bit of a case of 'I'm alright Jack' but good luck to you and hope it all works out ok.

Nordner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875789#Comment_117875789

Unnecessary hybrid working definitely appears to be the likely trend going forward which is such a shame and a lost opportunity to implement some real innovative policies. Like a previous poster said, it could be digital decentralisation without all the disruption and mayhem of the analog version which failed miserably first time round...I will go to the WRC if I have to and further if necessary.

But it would be nice if we could form some kind of an alliance to take on the employers and force them to implement proper remote working policies which might actually benefit the country and those of us wishing to live in our home counties...Forsa are our Union but I am not particularly impressed with how they've dealt with things so far...time will tell I suppose.