Working From Home Megathread

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

More likely that Google and other big tech companies like them will start offering to change workers contracts from Irish to whichever country they are from to allow the workers to move back home fully.
After all, why have big empty offices costing €millions in payments when you don't need them?
Google could retain a small rented workspace in Dublin for tax purposes with a handful of staff.
And if all that works i'd expect any of the big multinationals to follow suit and close offices in Ireland as they have proven WFH to be a big success.

This simply won’t happen, these places will still want to run their operations in Ireland and other top tier countries.

Outsourcing to cheap countries doesn’t work, established businesses know this. Look how many places have in-sourced what they had previously outsourced as it just doesn’t work.

Quin_Dub

Tenzor07 wrote: »

More likely that Google and other big tech companies like them will start offering to change workers contracts from Irish to whichever country they are from to allow the workers to move back home fully.
After all, why have big empty offices costing €millions in payments when you don't need them?
Google could retain a small rented workspace in Dublin for tax purposes with a handful of staff.
And if all that works i'd expect any of the big multinationals to follow suit and close offices in Ireland as they have proven WFH to be a big success.

I really don't think so.

When the restrictions relating to Covid are finally gone I would imagine that the expectation would not be for 100% remote but for a hybrid model - three or four days a week WFH but in the office at least once a week for Team meetings , group sessions etc.

I work for a large multi-national (Not Google) and that is the model that they are looking at. I can't see Google et al being all that different.

People will no longer have a permanent "home" desk in the office - They'll all be shared , but the expectation is that people will come to the office at regular intervals. They are also very explicitly saying that "Work from Home" does not mean "Work from Anywhere" and that they expect you to be able to come to the office when asked at short/no notice.

I really don't see this resulting in a mass flight of jobs from the Country.

Dyr

sp00k wrote: »

Netflix boss: Remote working has negative effects

My company has closed our office and told us we're working from home permanently now. Not sure how I feel about it - I do like working from home, but as someone else pointed out, what's to stop them from replacing me with someone in another country for a fraction of the wages.

“Not being able to get together in person, particularly internationally, is a pure negative,” Mr Hastings told the Wall Street Journal.

Someone is now stuck at the home with the missus and not happy about it. Most staff arent going off on international junkets

Hego Damask

What about the civil service tossers that have been at home since march on full pay but not working because "I don't have WIFI" ... imagine that in private sector ...

Dyr

Quin_Dub wrote: »

They are also very explicitly saying that "Work from Home" does not mean "Work from Anywhere" and that they expect you to be able to come to the office when asked at short/no notice.

I really don't see this resulting in a mass flight of jobs from the Country.

Already happening in the States, people bailing on high cost cities due to WFH, you can forget about no notice too, that won't fly with the LRC if your custom and practice is to be home based for most days of the year.

Quin_Dub

I wonder will we see any changes in the upcoming budget about the amounts available in tax credits etc. for WFH?

Might be seen as a relatively cost effective option if they were to update the limits allowable.

ParkRunner

Hego Damask wrote: »

What about the civil service tossers that have been at home since march on full pay but not working because "I don't have WIFI" ... imagine that in private sector ...

Very few people don’t have WiFi these days and the few who didn’t are working off mobile phone hotspots when not in the office from my experience. Imagine that!

Quin_Dub

Bambi wrote: »

Already happening in the States, people bailing on high cost cities due to WFH, you can forget about no notice too, that won't fly with the LRC if your custom and practice is to be home based for most days of the year.

Certainly in the US , people are being told that they have to "apply" to relocate and if approved their salaries will be adjusted - They aren't going to pay San Francisco salary if you're living in rural Idaho or where ever

And for the "No notice" thing , I wasn't meaning "Be in the office in 15 minutes" or whatever , more that you'd be expected to be able to come in the next day or two and not be having to arrange travel and book hotels etc.

e.g. - Let's have a face to face session in the office this Thursday kind of thing..

Dyr

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And for the "No notice" thing , I wasn't meaning "Be in the office in 15 minutes" or whatever , more that you'd be expected to be able to come in the next day or two and not be having to arrange travel and book hotels etc.

e.g. - Let's have a face to face session in the office this Thursday kind of thing..

You can reach Dublin from most parts of this island with a days notice, maybe not for 9 am but its eminently doable

Dyr

Hego Damask wrote: »

What about the civil service tossers that have been at home since march on full pay but not working because "I don't have WIFI" ... imagine that in private sector ...

Has anyone noticed their abscence?

Maybe have them out cleaning up neighborhoods in their area

Quin_Dub

Bambi wrote: »

You can reach Dublin from most parts of this island with a days notice, maybe not for 9 am but its eminently doable

Oh absolutely.

But not from outside Ireland , which was my point...

average_runner

Tenzor07 wrote: »

More likely that Google and other big tech companies like them will start offering to change workers contracts from Irish to whichever country they are from to allow the workers to move back home fully.
After all, why have big empty offices costing €millions in payments when you don't need them?
Google could retain a small rented workspace in Dublin for tax purposes with a handful of staff.
And if all that works i'd expect any of the big multinationals to follow suit and close offices in Ireland as they have proven WFH to be a big success.

And we can all work from home happily and people can leave Dublin

Tenzor07

Aniya Tiny Saucepan wrote: »

This simply won’t happen, these places will still want to run their operations in Ireland and other top tier countries.
Outsourcing to cheap countries doesn’t work, established businesses know this. Look how many places have in-sourced what they had previously outsourced as it just doesn’t work.

Well, this has all proven that for big tech physical location doesn't matter.. And it makes sense for Google to position themselves in a country where property, taxation, services/rates and staff costs are much cheaper.
Big companies aren't in Ireland because they "lov the craic and the people" they are about profit and in the Covid-Era costs count and wherever you can cut those costs then it will be done.

Tenzor07

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I really don't think so.When the restrictions relating to Covid are finally gone I would imagine that the expectation would not be for 100% remote but for a hybrid model - three or four days a week WFH but in the office at least once a week for Team meetings , group sessions etc.I work for a large multi-national (Not Google) and that is the model that they are looking at. I can't see Google et al being all that different.People will no longer have a permanent "home" desk in the office - They'll all be shared , but the expectation is that people will come to the office at regular intervals. They are also very explicitly saying that "Work from Home" does not mean "Work from Anywhere" and that they expect you to be able to come to the office when asked at short/no notice.
I really don't see this resulting in a mass flight of jobs from the Country.

Why pay for big expensive offices and service charges and rates when you don't actually need them? These companies aren't charities they are here to make a profit and if they can maintain one small office for tax purposes then why wouldn't they close big office spaces? And why come back to Ireland to have group sessions when they could go to a conference center or hotel anywhere in Europe with better air transport links than Ireland?

Tenzor07

average_runner wrote: »

And we can all work from home happily and people can leave Dublin

If you still have a job you can work from home.

Anyone's job which doesn't require them to conduct physical or direct customer interaction can leave Dublin and return back to their own county or country... And a lot of these employees can travel to the Google office closest to them if they have to... no need to operate out of Ireland.

Tenzor07

Mr.S wrote: »

They are here for the talented workforce, tax & access to European markets. We are not about to see a max exodus of EMEA HQ's.
There has always been far cheaper places to setup shop, long before COVID.

Come on now, that's like something from the IDA's notebook!

When you look at it:

Google's largest outside of the US, employing over 8,000 people from over 70 countries, speaking more than 75 languages.

A large percentage of the workforce don't come from Ireland in the first place, and when they come here they struggle to find accommodation in the city... and pay double or triple what they would for a mortgage back home!

My whole point is that they only need a small Brass plate office here in Ireland just for tax and administration purposes...

ChikiChiki

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I really don't think so.

When the restrictions relating to Covid are finally gone I would imagine that the expectation would not be for 100% remote but for a hybrid model - three or four days a week WFH but in the office at least once a week for Team meetings , group sessions etc.

I work for a large multi-national (Not Google) and that is the model that they are looking at. I can't see Google et al being all that different.

People will no longer have a permanent "home" desk in the office - They'll all be shared , but the expectation is that people will come to the office at regular intervals. They are also very explicitly saying that "Work from Home" does not mean "Work from Anywhere" and that they expect you to be able to come to the office when asked at short/no notice.

I really don't see this resulting in a mass flight of jobs from the Country.

That scenario won't last long. Would be a huge waste of money which would be better spent on proper home office infrastructure for staff.

beauf

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Well, this has all proven that for big tech physical location doesn't matter.. And it makes sense for Google to position themselves in a country where property, taxation, services/rates and staff costs are much cheaper.
Big companies aren't in Ireland because they "lov the craic and the people" they are about profit and in the Covid-Era costs count and wherever you can cut those costs then it will be done.

This is nonsense. You can do so much from home, but somethings need to be done in person. Likewise you can do so much on a laptop from the kitchen table, but you can't set up a workstation and 3 or 4 large monitors on the kitchen table while the family have a huge argument about homework around you.

Tenzor07

beauf wrote: »

This is nonsense. You can do so much from home, but somethings need to be done in person. Likewise you can do so much on a laptop from the kitchen table, but you can't set up a workstation and 3 or 4 large monitors on the kitchen table while the family have a huge argument about homework around you.

It's not when you look at the fact that the big techs in some cases have told their employee's that they don't need to return until minimum May 2021... And in many cases are told to WFH indefinitely... If many of the employee's can return home instead of renting small expensive accommodation in Dublin then setting up a couple of screens shouldn't be an issue..

cannco253

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I wonder will we see any changes in the upcoming budget about the amounts available in tax credits etc. for WFH?

Might be seen as a relatively cost effective option if they were to update the limits allowable.

Surely this has to be under discussion for the budget seeing as it's only a month away, but all quiet on the news?

And there must be an easier way of working out the costs involved, the 3.20 per day allowance isn't much and the hassle involved in getting it puts most people off.

Ninthlife

cannco253 wrote: »

Surely this has to be under discussion for the budget seeing as it's only a month away, but all quiet on the news?

And there must be an easier way of working out the costs involved, the 3.20 per day allowance isn't much and the hassle involved in getting it puts most people off.

The 3.20 allowance is the max an employer can pay you per day for wfh. That figure is agreed between you and the employer and then incl in payroll.

Otherwise its a Form12 return in the new year. Take your ESB bill add it up for the year divide by 365 then multiply by the number of days worked from home and you can claim that as relief against taxes paid for the year.

You may be asked for your calculation and supporting documentation

beauf

Tenzor07 wrote: »

It's not when you look at the fact that the big techs in some cases have told their employee's that they don't need to return until minimum May 2021... And in many cases are told to WFH indefinitely... If many of the employee's can return home instead of renting small expensive accommodation in Dublin then setting up a couple of screens shouldn't be an issue..

Home might have been less space and more crowded then their Dublin accommodation.

Its just not that simple.

capefear

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If you still have a job you can work from home.

Anyone's job which doesn't require them to conduct physical or direct customer interaction can leave Dublin and return back to their own county or country... And a lot of these employees can travel to the Google office closest to them if they have to... no need to operate out of Ireland.

residency rules will kick in if your no longer a resident in Ireland which will have tax implications. I can see the staff moving out of Dublin but not out off ireland if there allowed work from home.

I think once the pubs start to open again, employees in their 20's/30's will start going in to the office thurs or friday more so for the social aspect of it and work from home the rest of the time.

Tenzor07

capefear wrote: »

residency rules will kick in if your no longer a resident in Ireland which will have tax implications. I can see the staff moving out of Dublin but not out off ireland if there allowed work from home.
I think once the pubs start to open again, employees in their 20's/30's will start going in to the office thurs or friday more so for the social aspect of it and work from home the rest of the time.

Sure, though a lot of people may already be working during the Covid Lockdown at home in some EU country now and still paying Irish tax... As time goes on i'm sure a massive company like Google could offer staff a transfer of contracts...
Ryanair as an example: https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-is-ready-to-offer-its-staff-local-contracts-37141342.html

capefear

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sure, though a lot of people may already be working during the Covid Lockdown at home in some EU country now and still paying Irish tax... As time goes on i'm sure a massive company like Google could offer staff a transfer of contracts...
Ryanair as an example: https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-is-ready-to-offer-its-staff-local-contracts-37141342.html

Agree totally. The residency rules are relaxed at the moment because of covid for how much longer I dont know. Once the residency rules come back into play it will get interesting as Google etc can keep employees on the irish payroll while the employees WFH in another country and the employees can get an exclusion order where the Irish governemnt may only get PRSI from the employee and not paye or USC which will hit the exchequer hard.

Assetbacked

Mr.S wrote: »

They are here for the talented workforce, tax & access to European markets. We are not about to see a max exodus of EMEA HQ's.

There has always been far cheaper places to setup shop, long before COVID.

I'm not so sure about that;

https://www.thecurrency.news/articles/23438/double-irish-cash-has-fuelled-a-silicon-valley-tech-bubble-will-it-burst-before-the-us-election

Tenzor07

capefear wrote: »

Agree totally. The residency rules are relaxed at the moment because of covid for how much longer I dont know. Once the residency rules come back into play it will get interesting as Google etc can keep employees on the irish payroll while the employees WFH in another country and the employees can get an exclusion order where the Irish governemnt may only get PRSI from the employee and not paye or USC which will hit the exchequer hard.

The longer the NPHET-FFFG Government maintain the WFH recommendation the more it's costing the Irish economy... They've shut down the aviation and hospitality/tourism/arts sector, and now it looks like the Tech sector is changing the way it operates... At least Boris is trying to push the UK back into the office..

Quin_Dub

Ninthlife wrote: »

The 3.20 allowance is the max an employer can pay you per day for wfh. That figure is agreed between you and the employer and then incl in payroll.

Otherwise its a Form12 return in the new year. Take your ESB bill add it up for the year divide by 365 then multiply by the number of days worked from home and you can claim that as relief against taxes paid for the year.

You may be asked for your calculation and supporting documentation

Not quite..

They only allow you to claim 10% of your Heating/Electricity bill (Section 2.4 here)

The 1st part of your calculation is correct , but you then need to divide that figure by 10 :-(

Jim Root

Went into the office today; town is noticeably busier and I tell you one thing, and maybe it’s just my place, but I’d much rather be visible a few days a week in person, particularly when conversations around cutbacks are on the horizon.

Man Vs ManUre

It is much easier to work while intoxicated when doing WFH. Supermarkets have been selling way more booze than normal since March. Every evening is a Friday and there is no longer the Sunday night fear.