Working From Home Megathread

obi604

is the whole working from home tax relief done away with now?

i.e can I claim anything for 2023? Like other years I put in for heating, electricity and internet and got a certain % of this back

miamee

It should still be available to claim. Having said that, I haven't attempted to do mine for 2023 yet.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/jobs-and-pensions/eworking/how-to-claim.aspx

Young_gunner

Out of interest, does anyone know people who are working fully remotely?

I know a few, but I know of loads of people who have bought houses down the country (e.g. in Cork, Kerry, etc.) and commute to Dublin once a week for some day(s) in the office.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121613487#Comment_121613487

I work remotely 100% and am based in Cork, Kerry, etc.

But I've been here for almost 20 years, I didn't just move during COVID.

I work for a Dublin based company but would never dream of commuting one day a week just to be "in the office".

I am two years in the job and even though they could not put it in my contract that I would be fully remote the understanding has always been that I would.

As part of my job I spend two days a week with a client of my employer which is in a completely different part of the country again, and most of them I've never even seen on video calls let alone meet in person, but still work well with them.

Sunny Disposition

I read yesterday that the office market in Dublin is really weak, there's the highest amount of vacancies since 2013. And remember the economy was in an extremely weak position then and a very strong position now.

Sure, hybrid working seems to be where things are going for most people, but it's still a huge hit for property in cities. It's not being felt too severely on the residential side as yet because there was such a shortage going into Covid, but long term decline there too is probably inevitable.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617344#Comment_121617344

Good. Dublin needs less pressure.

Decentralisation was a great ideal back in the 00s with terrible implementation. Hopefully we start to get it now.

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121613487#Comment_121613487

I work fully remotely and know a few others who do too through Grow Remote (worth joining for local meet ups of other remote workers in your area). The company I work for are based in Dublin city centre, everyone else is in the office but I am not expected up there aside from major events they run (2-3 a year). Even at that if I said I couldn't make it I don't think there would be a big issue. They pay for my travel and a hotel if I have to stay over.

TaurenDruid

Came across this article, this morning. Food for thought! https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2024/0115/1426555-coffee-badging-return-to-office-work-from-home-employers-employees/

ELM327

Full remote since 2019. Have changed job (and company) twice in that time.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622581#Comment_121622581

Talking to my brother this is rife in his company. They were fully remote during covid and when the office eventually opened only those who wanted went in (which unsurprisingly was 2 or 3 people). Then last summer the Irish offices was told they had to start enforcing the already global rule (which they had been ignoring) of 3 days per week in the office and from what he has said virtually no one who had been fully remote is staying in for full days.

Some are coming in just to literally eat lunch and swipe the badge, others come in at 10 and go home at lunch or similar. This includes the top managers though at this stage I think no one is doing the 3 days again and more going in 1 or 2 days for a while as it appears to be off the global radar again I suppose.

Just allow people WFH as much as they want and it would stop all this rubbish.

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121675314#Comment_121675314

Farcical that grown adults have resorted to this behaviour.

I don't blame them though, the stupidity eminates from mandating office attendance where it is not necessary. The vast majority of people in any walk of life want to do a good job - just let grown adults decide for themselves if office attendance is warranted, within reason.

There's only so long the tide of flexible work can be held back.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676532#Comment_121676532

I think the article is making something out of nothing.

There would be people in our place that come in meet up with pals go for lunch and go home

They're not popping in to swipe a badge they're just "socializing" for an hour so and then go back home and work.

The great part of the change in a lot of places for me is the flexibility in a lot of roles where they're not pinned at 9-5 anymore.

I couldn't care less if someone came in at 10 and left at 2 then did an hour or two in the evening or whatever way they want to work it.

If there's performance problems with staff and managers think it's down to WFH. Bring them in or deal with the specific performance problem as you would in an office.

If people are performing and doing their job as expected. Leave them at it.

There's been a lot of horse sh|te written about WFH positive and negative. Hopefully it'll blow over soon and we can just get on with it.

Dodge

People and companies are just getting on with it. Every now and then a story pops up but it’s pretty much established now. We’re 2 years on from any “health” requirements. It’s just normal practice now. Some individual patterns may change, of course, but some element of WFH will remain for most desk based jobs

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676721#Comment_121676721

There's a definite trend of push back from fully working from home in many companies ... started at 1 day back, then 2 day back then 3. Some element of WFH maybe, but with the emphasis shifting to in office.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676728#Comment_121676728

There's an element of pushback from some employers, sure, but there's also pushback from employees against that. I've seen it myself when interviewing. "What's your blended working policy?" "Two days in the office, three WFH." "I literally can't afford to rent a place in Dublin, I'd be commuting from (midlands/the west/Cork). I mean, sure, the odd time, I don't mind going in, but if I'm doing the work from home, why do I need to go to the office every week" was a conversation I've had, or words to that effect, more than once. I still have the vacancies...

My partner is a contractor, 18 months in the current contract, headhunted for it in fact. They announced everyone has to go in 2 days a week from a couple of weeks ago. This is after a couple of years of "WFH unless you want to come in or there's some big meeting on." But they also want to extend the contract, they've some big project going on until June. Guess who's looking elsewhere, though?

Spudman_20000

I reckon a lot of workplaces are pushing the return to office as a way to shed staff and avoid paying redundancy.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680621#Comment_121680621

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680772#Comment_121680772

Really?

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/12/why-rto-mandates-are-layoffs-in-disguise-according-to-workplace-experts.html

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680621#Comment_121680621

I have seen an example of that in Galway. They knew it would force the issue for some folks that moved far away from office.

Traffic in Galway will get even worse if people are forced to return to the office.

I have been 100% WFH since Covid. I will most certainly leave my employer if they mandate more than 1 day a week.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681059#Comment_121681059

And hopefully it will result, sooner than later, in a couple of constructive dismissal cases at the WRC.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681131#Comment_121681131

Good luck with proving that if you have a contract that says your regular place of work is the office.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681230#Comment_121681230

No solicitor is going to take a case to the WRC for you if your contract states that, though, in the absence of something in writing saying you're entitled to WFH - which would be a material change to a contract?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680904#Comment_121680904

Typical HR carryon but it'll backfire on them. The calibre of employees who leave as a result is bound to be higher than those staying.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121684753#Comment_121684753

Why so? Ardent wfh staff are higher calibre now ?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121684982#Comment_121684982

That's not what was said.

Staff who enjoy WFH and want to keep doing so, and who happen to be more employable (i.e., those with in-demand skillsets, better track record and experience, etc.) are less likely to stick around with an employer that arbitrarily decides to remove or severely cut down on the WFH option. Those who can't easily find a job elsewhere, conversely, are the ones who don't end up leaving because WFH was removed.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121685638#Comment_121685638

Lot of mental gymnastics there , what if the better staff aren’t fussed about wfh so removing it means very little to them?

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686165#Comment_121686165

Agreed a lot of flexible, team players who are committed to the work (all good traits in an employee) consider the needs of the business and not just themselves as that supports the best business outcomes, and are fine with blended 3/2 days as a result.

People with a sense of entitlement focussed on their own success over the businesses success may the ones demanding full WFH.

It's totally case by case and you can't generalise

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686258#Comment_121686258

Exactly and in some cases not even their own success just their own wants.

Cluedo Monopoly

I am fairly convinced that WFH is a lot more efficient/productive than office working.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686405#Comment_121686405

And I am fairly convinced that sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't.

A lot is due to the intrinsic motivation and reading comprehension of the staff involved neither of which tend to be screened for ot selection criteria.

Also there are some cases where it is more efficient for some individual performers, but not for the overall team.

But both of those "fairly convinced" statements are just that: individual viewpoints.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686405#Comment_121686405

I think for established professional focused workers it can be and is- with plenty of meeting collaboration. Just for more inexperienced employees I don’t think it works well. Though it depends on the job- for more mundane routine type work less of an issue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617344#Comment_121617344

Those upper floor offices ideally need to be converted to apartments and sold, keeping lower floors for company HQs

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680904#Comment_121680904

Article states 90% of companies want a RTO but you think it's because they want disguise lay offs?

It's nonsense. if 90% of companies's end goal is RTO there;s not much point leaving one to go to another and hope they don't change RTO policy

This article proves nothing. Again there's a lot of BS gets written about WFH

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686258#Comment_121686258

People with a sense of entitlement focussed on their own success over the businesses success may the ones demanding full WFH.

People should exactly focus on their over success over a business.

My loyalty to the business is the same as theirs is to me, in other words if the company fell on hard times I would be cut right there, so I will naturally look out for my own interests. That isn't me saying I do not care about the company, but I put my own needs first, always. As should everyone.

Sunny Disposition

I employ a lot of people, but I doubt any of them are more focused on the success of my businesses than on their own selves. I wouldn’t expect them to be! In fact, they’d be mad if they were more focused on a company they don’t own than on themselves!

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121684982#Comment_121684982

I can’t speak for other companies but where I work the WFH policy is more or less based on how important to the business you are and how much clout you have.

We have plenty of staff who are more or less told they have to be in 5 days a week and at the same time have a number of fully remote or hybrid staff who’s skills are in demand and either only accepted the job if it’s remote/hybrid or already worked here before covid but top management don’t want to risk annoying so are allowed work remotely/hybrid (I’d fit in this bracket - generally I do a hybrid as there is some aspects of my job that do require attendance).

We would be quite stuck for the higher skilled roles without allowing this also I must add, being in the South East it has allowed us to hire in the dublin pool of talent even if they don’t want to leave Dublin.

Personally I don’t agree with the policy as I think everyone should have at least some hybrid option but I am left alone to do what I want so won’t be making any noises about it.

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121688139#Comment_121688139

Where in my OP did I say it was a tactic from all companies that have been pushing RTO?

But you'd want to be very naive to think some companies aren't doing it.

I've seen it myself, especially in the tech sector. For 3 years it was "remote working is the future lads" and then in recent times this mad push to get people back in the office (usually for very nebulous reasons like "improved collaboration"). People who relocated that can't return to the office resign and move on. Then a few months later, company announces redundancies.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686652#Comment_121686652

Except that actual research bares out the fact that blended working increases productivity?

And, well: https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0203/1272759-working-from-home-toxic-workplace-slackers-bullies-self-promoters/

Thankfully, promotion of blended working is now government policy, anyway, so it doesn't really matter what the kow-towers think. And the reality, even if Cyrus doesn't want to admit it, is it's damned hard to recruit good people for "office" work where blended working isn't an option.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121686165#Comment_121686165

What "mental gymnastics", exactly, are in my post?

Most people want remote or blended working. Better staff are more employable. Anywhere. Mediocre staff are less employable and will find it harder to move.

If some better staff aren't fussed about commuting into the office, then they won't move. And? Good for them - it's all about choice.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121688664#Comment_121688664

You do not employ a lot of people! No way Jose

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121688914#Comment_121688914

blended working is one thing, in my experience lots of the people who ardently want full remote working have some character traits that make them less indispensable than they think they are.

odyssey06

Return to office mandates don't work, study suggests:

While some executives say employees are unproductive and ineffective at home, a study from the University of Pittsburgh suggests it is return-to-office mandates that don’t work. An analysis of S&P 500 firms that implemented in-office attendance requirements found that the mandates did not boost financial performance or value, which remained on par with that of companies allowing virtual work. However, researchers did observe “significant declines in employees’ job satisfaction” — perhaps explaining why 80% of employers who forced a return to offices later expressed regret over the decision.

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/rto-mandates-dont-work-study-6571002/

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121690030#Comment_121690030

Yep, nothing increases productivity like putting a bee in each of your employees bonnet.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121690086#Comment_121690086

Hey, remember, it's team-building and good communication for us all to be forced into the office. Nothing like those water cooler conversations. "Traffic was murder today." "It's been terrible since the schools were back." "Pain in the f'n arse, I'm losing 15 hours a week stuck in traffic. Why are they bringing us back anyway." "You know what Bee is like, if she can't see you, she doesn't trust you're working..." "But I get more done at home, anyway - I don't have Cee just hanging around my desk for a chat." "Try telling that to the CFO who signed off on a new office lease right at the start of Covid. Gotta justify that expense somehow..." "Would he not be better off worrying about the delays to the project?" "Sure what can he do, Dee and Eff are gone, I was on glassdoor myself yesterday, a few CVs gone in..."

Thinking employers want people back in because of office leases is laughable at best

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121690888#Comment_121690888

I really don't think it is.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121690888#Comment_121690888

Please tell us the real reason then, oh wise one 😂

macchoille

For some of us working remotely is the only viable option. I live in the north west and left a major employer (with a no rehire policy) during Covid for a contract job based 3.5+ hrs drive away.

Big push with the client to RTO and redution on contractors, was told at end of 2nd contract that I could change to full time but would be required to comply with any ‘blended work’ changes. Realistically this wasn’t an option with mortgage, wife (her own stable career) , kids etc.

Really struggling to find anything, I had a good record with previous employer (and the previous company they acquired TUPE’d) . Applied for roles with them where I’m hitting 90% of the requirements but I’m not even getting short listed.

I am getting interest with recruiters for in office/ Hybrid roles but the logistics of these would not be viable.

Seems like there is huge competition for WFH focused/ fully remote roles. I am getting interviews but just not nailing them.

Sad thing is that if I could get something local or commutable that I’d be happy to go into an onsite / in office focused role.

Sunny Disposition

It would be very frustrating to be paying a lease on a building you don't need. It would drive me simple to be honest. I can understand a drive to fill buildings, even if it doesn't entirely make sense!

The other side is if you are coming to the end of your lease, as I was a few years ago, it's a huge saving if you can go fully remote.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121690888#Comment_121690888

Irish Times commercial property supplement advertorials would certainly paint a particular picture... even if the actual editorial staff and management board of the Irish Times are all delighted to have blended working.