Working From Home Megathread

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355735#Comment_118355735

The question wasn't about your qualifications relative to mine, though I've no idea how you've managed to assess those. The question was about your qualifications relative to NPHET? How do you feel qualified to make judgements on how or why people should travel from the UK, in the absence of any formal public health advice? Are you telling people that they can't travel for a parent's funeral perhaps? Or to support a family member going through long term illness? Or to deal with business or property matters here? Does your ruling apply to the entire Covid period that I've been unable to offer an overnight bed to family?

Who do you think is going to pay for a couch bed btw, so I can be tripping over it every day as 'go to work' at my desk?

a_squirrelman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355635#Comment_118355635

GO

TO

THE

OFFICE!!!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356515#Comment_118356515

i'M

NOT

ALLOWED.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356143#Comment_118356143

Ok, so here's my 'manifesto', I guess.

1) Whatever new models emerge with/after Covid, they should NOT be based on the assumption that everyone can or wants to WFH. The 'traditional model' of employer providing the office space MUST be available to employees, and must not be a negative factor in recruitment, retention or promotion for employees.

2) Where WFH is available, employers must maintain their legal obligation to ensure that the workplace is safe. Employer must pay for workplace equipment, which will generally include desk, chair, monitors and connectivity.

3) Employers really, really should pay towards WFH costs, at very least covering out of pocket expenses on light, heat, broadband.

A kitchen table isn't a safe workplace. Saying 'move jobs' isn't a solution for many people, due to age or qualifications or whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288920#Comment_118288920

I secured a job thats 100% WFH, I now reside in rural Galway.

I was offered other roles that would require 1 or 2 days in the office in Dublin. Is it doable? Yes, feasible on a long term basis? I would say not. The effects, both physically and mentally are incalculable.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356961#Comment_118356961

On point one. You do realise that there were companies and roles that were 100% remote prior to covid. Will these companies have to start providing office space for employees even though they never did before?

JTMan

Wales are to start fining people who go to the office despite WFH restrictions. Proper order.

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1473340498131759107

JoChervil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355635#Comment_118355635

That is some twisting others words...

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357732#Comment_118357732

Interesting question - were there any/many Irish companies doing this?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357941#Comment_118357941

Shopify is the best known example

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357941#Comment_118357941

No idea but I know a few people working for a company that is fully remote. I also know a few people who are working roles that have been fully remote prior to covid.

a_squirrelman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356961#Comment_118356961

It's been said before that you need to suck it up until after covid so it's time you face that reality, OR there are plenty of private sector companies that are allowing people to get to the office if they can't handle WFH. Maybe it's time for you to make the switch?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359654#Comment_118359654

And again, it's' been said before that it's not about me. I'm just one example. There are many people for whom WFH doesn't work. They need to be accommodated into whatever new models of work emerge.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358002#Comment_118358002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357954#Comment_118357954

I suppose that my objective would be that people who can't or don't want to WFH aren't discriminated in the workforce. Prior to Covid, this was such a small issue that Shopify and others had no material effect on the workforce, as the vast majority of employers provided a place of work. There is a danger that this will change, with employers snaffing substantial savings in office costs, and people in limited or restricted home environments will be discriminated against in their access to work. it is worrying to see how the majority are happy to throw their colleagues, typically their younger, less well off colleagues under the bus on this one.

I don't have all the answers, and I'm not suggesting that companies like Shopify could or should be forced to change their work models. But there must be a way to avoid discriminating against those without space or other facilities at home.

a_squirrelman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360459#Comment_118360459

You constantly pretend that you're concerned about other people and the future models of work.

Yes, we know that it doesn't suit all people, yes it's inconvenient for some, but when covid is over you can all head back. Most of us here don't give two figs if you go back.

You latched on to this stuff about the future models as it helps your deep set hatred for WFH.

The reality is you're annoyed you didn't get a chair bought for you and a bespoke desk for your...."longer legs" was it?

You're annoyed that all your happy colleagues are saving money from their commute when it was you that was saving money on the cycle before. They're probably thinking that "Andrew must be raging he doesn't have that stick to beat us with" now.

You're finding makey uppy issues such as "zoned heating" to get in a fuss about. It takes me all of 1 minute to turn all the rads on or off in my home. Now if your home is so big that you can't do that then maybe you can find space for a desk in there somewhere.

Your posts are tiresome. Stop pretending to care about everyone else when it's 100% clear you're a mé féiner all the way.

Once again, NOBODY CARES if their colleagues go to the office, when this is all over please go there. And yes, we'll ALL be happy if in the future when all the kinks are ironed out if we get a few €'s back for electricity/wifi etc but until then let's get on with it.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360547#Comment_118360547

The point that seems to have gone right over your little head, is that there may not be an office to go back to when all this is over.

a_squirrelman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360572#Comment_118360572

No darling, I believe you mentioned it before so I'm aware of your doomsday scenarios.

But what is the point of these imaginary scenarios you keep coming up? Yeah sure, there might be a tiny proportion of companies who close up the office. The reality is that most of them will analyse the data, survey the staff, and have desks available for a certain number of employees.

This is another of your most recent weapons you're using to beat WFH with. Stop pretending to care about the one or two companies and their employees who that might happen to.

Cyrus

The people who are most het up about Andrews posts come across as being afraid of their lives of having to go back to the office at some point in the future to be honest.

And anyone advocating a kitchen table as a work place is away with the fairies.

a_squirrelman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360617#Comment_118360617

Nope, we just see through his nonsense.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360459#Comment_118360459

You literally said in the post I quoted that employers must provide office space for employees so you are forcing companies to change their work models.

Pwindedd

I like the office. I also like the flexibility of working from home. It took me a while to get used to it I'll admit - but there are some advantages to it. However I would like to go back to the office at some stage. If it looks like that might not happen then I will look for a position that does offer some office time. And it's as simple as that. I can choose where I want to work.

WFH/HYBRID/ALL OFFICE will become just another part of the package on offer along with salary, annual leave, healthcare etc and it will be up to the employee to decide which company they want to work for. All this other talk (bluster) about conditions and savings and rights is academic.

The money I used to fuel my car, now goes into my boiler to heat my house. The time I used to spend in my car is now spent walking my dog in the morning. There are going to be some losers and some winners - there were under the "old system" and the same is true now. Change is difficult for some people. @AndrewJRenko it's okay to say you miss the office and are struggling with this - no one will think less of you or think you're sad.

I am struggling too some days. I really miss the daily chat and banter, the sense of togetherness with my team. I struggle with motivation on a daily basis at home. But you're getting lost in the weeds of all this - I think the floor plans was a new low.... even for boards!!

Whatever the office landscape looks like once we're out from under the grip of Covid. There will be a place for everyone. It'll take some juggling around and a lot of moving jobs. But maybe that's what it needed all along.

JoChervil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360617#Comment_118360617

Please, give us examples of such posts, which would show such attitude...

Pussyhands

I'm putting in my expenses for 2020 and 2021 now. When uploading the receipt, it asks for total bill and amount paid by you, it means the total bill right? Not just the bit you're claiming for? Where does it mention the number of days you work from home etc.?

EDIT: Worked out fine.

Now I'm trying to do it for 2021 but there's no remote working allowance in the tax credits section for 2021?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360969#Comment_118360969

I appreciate the good intentions of your post, there's a good bit of 'I'm all right Jack' coming through here. The finances work out for you, so everyone else can go whistle for it, apparently.

And yes, I DO miss the chat and banter and togetherness with the team. But that's not what this is about. We've done a lot of work at taking discrimination OUT of the workplace over the past 50 years. I'm old enough to remember job adverts for 'Office Girl' and similar. We've largely stopped discrimination on grounds of gender, sexuality and we've reduced discrimination on many other grounds. If we aren't very, very careful, we're going to find ourselves introducing system discrimination against a segment of employees, generally the younger and worse off employees for a generation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360646#Comment_118360646

As noted above, I hadn't considered the small number who already had gone for an entire WFH model in my proposal. I see that Shopify have at least one non-remote role in Dublin on their current vacancy list, so it looks they do have some office facility available for some staff. I'm sure that smarter heads than mine can come up appropriate policies that will ensure that generally worse off staff who don't have decent WFH capabilities at their home aren't discriminated against in the future, without causing a very small number of companies to change their entire staffing approach.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360616#Comment_118360616

Presumably then you'd have no difficulty with any legislation that made office space for those employees a requirement, given that almost every company will be doing it anyway.

JoChervil

Don't you think that current set up discriminates young people living in remote rural areas? What about them then?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365296#Comment_118365296

Have you heard about this work-from-home thing that's been happening a bit in the past couple of years?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118364899#Comment_118364899

I am amused every time I read your anti-wfh posts here. The contortions you are having to do to make it seem like you are on a crusade for the common good are funny to watch.

Keep it up, it brightens my day.

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365339#Comment_118365339

I guess it would need legislation, like you are suggesting for office space being provided.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365591#Comment_118365591

The amusing thing is - that nothing that I've said is 'anti-WFH'. WFH is great for many people. I see the benefits first-hand for many family and friends. The rush to shut me up in case asking some fairly reasonable questions causes some spiteful, petty employers to overturn WFH is slightly misguided.

The only thing that I'm 'anti' here is anti-MANDATORY-WFH.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365644#Comment_118365644

It has happened for the last two years without any legislation. There is legislation going through for the right to request WFH mind you.

There is no legislation for the right to work in a workplace provided by your employer.

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365720#Comment_118365720

I agree, maybe I took you up wrong here:

"Presumably then you'd have no difficulty with any legislation that made office space for those employees a requirement, given that almost every company will be doing it anyway."

You are saying you would support legislation to make office space a requirement, I'm saying the same would be good for WFH, that a company must allow it, so we don't discriminate against the "remote rural" mentioned above?