Working From Home Megathread

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527272#Comment_118527272

We got a general email (public sector) saying things are under review and there would be an announcement in the coming weeks. There was talk of a day a week in the office for everyone, so I would say it will head that way probably in a few weeks. One issue they have is one of the offices has been closed (and not likely to reopen)...so not exactly sure they will be able to accommodate everyone, so a few days a week might be max.

I work in IT so zero need to be in an office 99 percent of the time. Back to wasting 2+ hours a day going to and from the office...joy!

jrosen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527398#Comment_118527398

Whats the market like in your line of work.

I have seen quite a few jobs advertised that list work from home benefits. If companies are sensible they will use their flexibility to attract workers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527900#Comment_118527900

Just for anyone curious (I was) this is the case being referred to

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0813/1240715-wrc-hears-of-woman-dismissed-over-covid-childcare-issue/

Mrs OBumble

That case could have all sorts of consequences, some different to what you would expect.

The firm clearly messed up in not considering childcare needs during the extraordinary circumstances of Covid.

But in normal times, I cannot imagine any employer allowing a credit controller to work outside normal office hours to facilitate childcare: the nature of the job involves contacting your debtors while they are open. Similarly employers are likely to have very strong policies that a person who is working cannot be in charge of children at the same time.

siblers

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Potential-Monke

I can see why they fired her. They fired her at the start of covid, so wasn't remote beforehand. She couldn't get a crèche, fair enough, every place was closed. Which means that while she would be wfh, he kids would be there and be... distracting, to say the least I would imagine. That's a messy one and one I am not learned enough to discuss it fully. WFH isn't a crèche, but if there are no créches open.... Sticky one, and one which could have massive consequences down the line. I don't think the responsibility of someones kids being minded while the parent works should ever be on the employer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528146#Comment_118528146

Nonsense. She was dismissed in May 2020 when we were in the middle of the most restrictive covid lockdown. They shouldn't have been trying to get her in anyway, only essential workers were allowed to attend their workplaces at the time. There's no good reason why a credit controller needs to be in the office full time in the middle of a pandemic.

Childcare options disappeared for many parents during the worst of the lockdowns, that's not the employee's fault. The vast majority of employers understood that.

New wfh legislation due tomorrow.

One interesting quote from Leo

He said people will be able to appeal refusals of their requests to work from home with the Workplace Relations Commission but said he hopes the appeals mechanism will not be used too often.

I hope the WRC are getting a few more staff because the opposite is going to be true.

Leo Varadkar warns working life can’t return to how it was before pandemic

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/leo-varadkar-warns-working-life-cant-return-to-how-it-was-before-pandemic-41273284.html

Potential-Monke

Sorry, I misread that as March. They probably weren't the only ones to make a mad decision around then I'd imagine. Crazy though, the payout in a genuine case and then frivolous claims get massive payouts.

I do like Leos line on the new legislation, will put the craps up a few employers I'd imagine, easier and probably cheaper to accommodate WFH than deal with a WRC case! I feel a bit more confident in my staying WFH now.

Dav010

Interesting item with Richard Grogan employment solicitor on Ireland AM, around 7:15am on player. He was talking about wfh legislation, at the moment it is just discussions, and a request does not mean a right to wfh. He said employers will have to employ H&S officers to check all homes, there will be issues with insurance, fire safety and GDPR for people who share accommodation. Apartments, he foresees will be out for the above reasons, there is no way office spaces at kitchen tables or on iron boards will be possible. So employers will refuse any request where the employee does not have a suitable workspace in their property. One way around this he said was an amendment to the H&S Act where an employee who requests wfh becomes responsible for their own workspace and the employer is exempted from liability.

The item should be up on the virgin player later today.

MSVforever

All this health and safety stuff is nonsense as it didn't matter the last two years.

Why not leave the decision to employees if they want to continue to work from home or prefer to come into the office?

We are talking about office based positions so there's no need to force people back.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529168#Comment_118529168

The legislation is there, it just isn’t fit for purpose, a pandemic and sudden closing of offices was never envisaged. Employers/employees did not have a choice for the most part over the last two years, now they do, that is why the H&S aspect now has to be addressed.

Saying H&S is all nonsense is fine and well, until the claims start rolling into the WRC.

Mrs OBumble

H&S is nonsense - until it's you with the musculo-skeletal injury fron 8 hours a say hunched over a laptop.

I think that to a certain extent, common sense will prevail when it comes to suitable WFH arrangements.

I don't expect anyone who has been stuck working on the kitchen table for the past couple of years will not be too keen on continuing with that working arrangement and will happily go back to the office full time.

On the other hand, someone who has a purpose built office area at home would be keen to do either full WFH or some mutually agreed hybrid model. The idea that it must be rigidly set as two days in three dats WFH does not make much sense.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529234#Comment_118529234

That was Grogan’s point, apartments do not lend themselves to being “purpose built offices”, unless people start renting two bedroom apartments alone and using the second bedroom as an office. Which of course might not be financially viable.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527873#Comment_118527873

The cost to the company is 1.5k to pay for the ticket and the tax.

The cost to you to buy the ticket is a net amount of 520 euro as it comes from your gross pay not your net pay.

Like i illustrated it makes no sense. They are paying you 1.5k to net you a beneft of 520 euro, if they paid you 1k, the tax saver comes from your gross income, costs them 1k (+ er taxes)

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529168#Comment_118529168

H&S didn't really come up during the last two years because there was no way to force employers' hands. If someone hated working from home and wanted to make a claim on H&S grounds, their employer couldn't just open the building and bring them back in again.

But that's all going to change. Employers handing young people a laptop and sending them off to WFH out of a flat that they're sharing with 4 others, won't be allowed to fly. All it'll take is a ruling from the WRC from someone who's desperate to get back into the office.

Working hubs will likely see a boom on the back of this new legislation. Some more traditional companies might just start pulling people back into the office on H&S grounds, but other companies are more likely to sort out smaller regional working spaces for staff rather than dedicated huge offices.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529341#Comment_118529341

That will only work for large companies with larger numbers of employees working remotely. It is not feasible for a SME to have new offices in Leitrim, Galway, Kerry, Carlow for 3 employees who used to work in a city office prior to Covid.

Working hubs might be the industry to be in, but again I suppose they will only work for those in close proximity. There will be those who will whinge if they have to travel as far to hubs as they do to their office.

Young_gunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529234#Comment_118529234

This is it in a nutshell - 100%. If you're productive and happy at home, why on earth should an employer force you back? (that's not saying they won't try)

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529403#Comment_118529403

Until we have a case like this here and the guy get a €5m payout:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/fall-on-walk-from-bed-to-desk-is-workplace-accident-german-court-rules

Guy injures himself walking from the bed to his desk at home and it is regarded as a workplace accident and he sued his employer.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529394#Comment_118529394

That's what I mean by working hubs though. Serviced offices where the SME leases out a room. All they have to do supply is some computer hardware and maybe the chairs. The working hub takes care of security, maintenance, kitchen facilities, etc.

They've been around for a few years, but not heavily used for the same reason that many companies didn't allow WFH. They would have been quiet during the pandemic because lots of people would have no interest in sharing office space with total randomers.

I expect they'll become very popular now though. It'll give companies more regional reach; they don't have to hire people in a city or looking to relocate to one. If you had some shared office space just outside Athlone, then you can take candidates from all over the place, not just those who want to WFH.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524257#Comment_118524257

Oh god what painful patronizing rubbish. Cringe

road_high

I’m saddened to see lots of rigid inflexibility here re the WFH from some employers. Though not altogether that surprised. I did suspect these might happen

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529427#Comment_118529427

Why would the Employer pay for the space though?

If you want to work from home to avoid a commute etc. and your home isn't suitable then that is your problem , not the employers.

There is a place for these locations and lots of people will make use of them , but I don't see employers paying for them being very common at all to be honest.

tigger123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529522#Comment_118529522

They might be forced to if its an employees market though.

That's the important point underlying all of these conversations. If we were in the middle of a recession with low employment, employers could dictate the terms. But we're not. Employees have that bit of leverage now.

big syke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529279#Comment_118529279

If i paid for the ticket myself it would cost 1000.

My job can pay me a bonus of 2k or pay for the tax saver costing them 1500 ish. Do you get it now?

Either way i beneift of free travel.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529532#Comment_118529532

I think they cost something like 800 a month or so, obviously depends on the location. Companies presumably will pay for it for some employees, but not for an average drone.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529532#Comment_118529532

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529541#Comment_118529541

I get that - To get/keep a valuable employee , companies will do things that they wouldn't generally do.

But it will absolutely be the exception , not the rule.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529534#Comment_118529534

Not it wouldnt, you are missing the tax saver element, its in the name, it comes from your gross pay, so its costs you a net 520. Do you get it now?

I do agree that you should have a proper home setup with proper chair and desk and screens and not just work off a laptop. Companies will start introducing these ergonomic checks now and if don’t pass it’s back to office.

The majority of people will have space for a desk and office chair so shouldn’t be an issue.