Working From Home Megathread
Comments
-
It smacks of reality, if companies are locked in to leases/mortgages on offices, why pay for the outlay associated with remote working?
I appreciate the answer from some quarters will be, if you don’t offer remote working some staff will leave, but again, the reality is that others will fill those vacancies in the office.
0 -
A hook to attract new staff...Happier workforce = more productive and less likely to leave...Savings on heat and light expenses if the office is closed for an extra day.
It's been done before. One upon a time everyone worked on Saturday too.
3 -
A ‘Compressed hours’ option has been a thing for many years in most large firms. Doing your 35 or 40 hours in 4 days instead of 5
The 4 day week is different, and will need smart resource planning and performance management. But it’s the 21st century and these things should not be beyond the capability of organisations. And if they are, and remain so over coming years, then I expect such organisations to slowly go the way of the dinosaurs
3 -
From the viewpoint of someone who wants RW and/or shorter working week, that certainly makes sense. But working 5 days in an office is hardly working people to the bone. There is a skilled workforce out there, the vacancies will be filled by those who don’t mind working 5 days rather than being pressured to do the same job in 20% less time.
If we are talking about IT/Finance sector jobs, judging by posts on boards, moving jobs is an almost accepted part of career/wage progression, so the churn in the sector caused by C19 is expected, eventually the sector will settle into a familiar pattern where those that want wfh/4 days will probably get the jobs they want, and employers who want office attendance/5 day week will get their employees. No doubt some employees will benefit from the churn, some employers may get to move on unwanted employees. But it’ll settle down, the way it always does.
0 -
Because it’ll be hybrid for the overwhelming majority, not remote. The remote thing is a complete strawman, used in debates like this. Hardly anyone will be completely WFH
They’ll use the space, make it nicer like we have across our global offices, with more communal and breakout areas and sofas. Less busy floor plans. Google for example are investing a huge sum in buying new London offices, but they will have a swimming pool, exercise studios, massage rooms, tons of recreational and communal space, and developed with the intention that 60% of staff are hybrid and 20% fully WFH. That’s the future
Office owners and leaseholders will adjust. It’s an opportunity, and it would be such a shame if vested interests with no imagination held it back. You see the same with car park owners trying to kill the pedestrianisation of our cities. Vested interests don’t like change, but if the people want it (and most people want flexibility in their work) then it will ultimately happen
2 -
Advertisement
-
For some, no doubt, but that shift may come at a cost, that will also have to be factored in.
Leaving aside wages for a moment, if an employer said to an employee “I am moving up all your work deadlines by one day per week, and you better have it done” they would have a lot of very unhappy employees, yet that is what you are saying should be done.
0 -
Ya I appreciate that. There is no doubt it will suit some companies and not others.
0 -
As you say, a lot of employers are looking at those leases and in certainly the case of the last company I worked for and the current one, shuttering offices and ending the lease when it expires. Hybrid or WFH certainly seems to be here to stay in these companies if for no other reason than they don't have the desk space any more.
That said, I was approached with a role recently that when I got into the detail with the recruiter, wanted a 3/2 split involving a commute into Dublin City Centre for little more than "the chats".
I dropped out of the process at that point. There is some value in occasional face to face meetings (if they have an actual agenda) and "coffee dock chats" and in my current role I do exactly that every few weeks for a day or two, but I am no longer prepared to spend 3-4 hours commuting per day (not to mention the expense of it) to sit at a desk in an office doing the same thing that I've proven I can do just as effectively from my desk at home.
14 -
I heard Heather Humphries on the radio the other day talking about Rural Regeneration.
She specifically mentioned the case of a woman from Stranorlar who was working for a multinational in Dublin but who was able to move home to Stranorlar with her family during the Pandemic, thanks to the fact she can now avail of Remote Working full time.
I work in the Public Sector, Dublin 24, in a role that does not require attendance in the office and have successfully carried out all my duties remotely since March 2020.
However, despite this, my employers are not offering access to full time Remote Working and we are required to attend the office 3 days a week from April under Blended Working protocols. Furthermore, the rumours are that DPER, our parent department, are adamant that full time Remote Working will not be offered in the near future.
This is especially disappointing for me as, like that lady from Stranorlar, I too am from Donegal and would like to move back home.
I am probably naïve, but, I really hope that The Government will promote a policy of Digital Decentralization, where appropriate, within the Civil and Public Service. The success of Remote Working during The Pandemic, together with the continued roll out of National Broadband and government investment in Remote Hubs, offers an unprecedented opportunity to revolutionise the way we work in this country and to revitalize rural communities.
This, in turn, will relieve pressure on our urban centres, decrease our carbon footprint, via reduced commutes, and assist greatly in tackling the ongoing Housing Crisis.
The only way to achieve this goal will be access to 100% Remote Working for those, in suitable roles, wishing to live and work in regions of the country far removed from their current office locations.
I will be urging my Union, Forsa, to work in partnership with the Rural Regeneration and Development Fund, Údarás na Gaeltachta, Western Development Commission and any other relevant bodies in this regard.
I believe The Civil and Public Service should be at the forefront of these developments and set the standards going forward.
I would urge all of you on this thread, Public or Private Sector, who want to avail of fulltime Remote Working, to make contact with the organisations mentioned above and also to email your local TD's and the relevant Ministers involved; Heather Humphries, Leo Varadkar and Michael McGrath. Contact The Green Party as well. They should be all over this but they don't appear to be. Surely it would be an easy 'win' for them?
The Bill in relation to Remote and Hybrid working will be debated in The Dail before the summer recess so everybody needs to get their emails in asap!
As a previous poster suggested, if enough people get together and put forward cohesive arguments in favour of remote working, then we can be successful in securing it for ourselves!
Thanks for your time.
8 -
Out of curiosity, what happens if the PS/CS did go fully wfh, and then tried to reverse it if doesn’t work out as expected? Part of the reason why ministers/TDs will be unhelpful is that they won’t want to be the ones responsible for a calamitous decision if wfh results in fall in productivity, increase in costs/workplace insurance claims etc. It is easier to revert to something approaching normal work practices, with a nod to employee inertia by allowing hybrid working.
If you buy a house in Donegal based on being allowed to wfh, and it is subsequently found that productivity collapses (not saying it will), your employer will not be able to force you to go back to Dublin, and PSs are not likely to abandon their jobs in droves, so it will be easier for your employer/ politicians to do nothing.
0 -
Advertisement
-
Sure isn't it always easier for politicians to do nothing? Look at the rubbish solution to the energy crisis....throwing a couple of hundred euro to every household regardless of their means.
Licences granted left, right and centre to private corporations, many from outside the state, to build solar and wind farms. Meanwhile our deposits earning zero or minus interest in our bailed out banks.
Why no PPP endeavours in renewable energy projects? Government could offer individual investors guaranteed returns depending on amounts and fixed timescales similar to the SSIA scheme back in the day.
But no, we are giving it all away to private investment funds and foreign corporations so we can buy our energy from them and they reap all the rewards!
Total lack of imagination...they are just hoping most younger people **** off abroad again once the pandemic is over so they never have to change the status quo and keep themselves and their cronies in clover while the majority muddle along through the wreckage of their failures.....but I digress....
As far as productivity goes, most, if not all Public and Civil Service bodies have mid year and end of year reviews and employees can be sanctioned in several ways. From reduced promotional opportunities and/or freezes on their incremental entitlements, up to and including dismissal. So any employee not pulling their weight would suffer the consequences.
We are, as a country, up to our holes in debt, crowded into cities and suburbs, paying over the odds for cramped and poorly built apartments and houses, **** public transport services, a two tier health system and suffering long commutes along congested roads that aren't fit for purpose...
All the while rural Ireland continues to be plagued by unemployment, emigration, lack of amenities, dwindling populations....a digital decentralisation is a no brainer, as is the SSIA type scheme I described earlier.
Will it happen? Not unless we get off our arses and demand it! We accept too much bullshit from our elected officials who never appear to accept responsibility for anything, stand for nothing and expect us to just suck it up....enough is enough lads
...
3 -
Unemployment is remarkably low, seasonally adjusted it was just 5.3% in January. That is incredible considering we have had almost 2 yrs of Covid disruption. So I’m not sure where the plague of unemployment is and emigration. Anything below 5% is considered full employment. Our population is actually at its highest since before the Famine in the 1840’s, yes there has been migration to Dublin due to that being the location where jobs are most available. Companies have tried building outside Dublin only to be met with planning objections from locals or dedicated objectors.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/mue/monthlyunemploymentjanuary2022/
SSIAs were considered to be one of the drivers of the last boom prior to the recession when they matured in 2007 many couldn’t wait to spend. Also, the Government topped up by 20% if I remember correctly, there isn’t the money available to do that now. Will renewable energy give the returns the SSIA’s did, or enough to entice people to invest in private companies? Hard to know.
Wind farms are incredibly expensive to build and again, getting planning is a challenge. I was talking to a Director of an engineering company recently, who design and oversees the building of wind farms. He explained that a decent windmill could cost 5m, per mill, and a substation up to 10m. So it is not as easy as just saying, this is what the Government should be doing. If there were Irish companies with the money and expertise, they are already in there.
Why do you feel so put upon because you have to commute to work? That is a fact of life for many in most large cities.
I do agree with you on one aspect though, the politicians will not decide on allowing to wfh, because they know if it goes badly, it will be rolled up and hung around their neck for evermore.
0 -
Well, you sound like a city slicker mate and could not give a damn about rural Ireland.
What was the point handing 2.6 billion euro of taxpayers money to yer man McCourt so he could pay KN networks to roll out our fibre broadband? Why are the government pumping millions into Digital Hubs? What is the **** point if we aren't going to be allowed use them?
Listen, there will be plenty of people who want to continue living in cities, driving for hours to and from offices every day and fair play to them...However, those of us with connections to rural Ireland should be given the opportunity to return home to the communities we come from if we want to and if our roles are suitable for remote working.
We could live on my wages in Donegal and my wife could take time out to rear our kids instead of farming them out to creches...this craic of both partners having to work full time to get by is a cod of a racket and real wages have been stagnating since the 80's with access to cheap credit plugging the gaps...
Unemployment, underemployment and low wages are rampant in many regional areas of the country. Half the 20 and 30 somethings are gone to Australia, America and other anglophone countries...that is what our government relies on...that the younger generations, who might want to shake things up a bit and foment change, will become so disillusioned that they just piss off abroad and problem solved....been that way for decades and seemingly nothing has changed.
As regards the SSIA type scheme linked to renewables, I do not buy your argument. Its not like oil and gas exploration where the costs were too prohibitive and we needed specialists to take all the risks....The land is our land, the seas belong to us. Compulsory purchase orders are still a thing and, believe me, if local communities were going to actually benefit from these projects, there would be way less objections to them!
4 -
Ok, Ireland currently has the highest population in almost 170 yrs, and almost full employment, immigration has outstripped emigration for a few years, so please less hyperbole about unemployment and emigration. A lot of the young people in Australia are there by choice, not by necessity. There is currently a shortage of tradesmen and health care staff in Ireland, the jobs are here, but lifestyle and quality of living in Australia is an understandable draw. Truth be known, if I was a 20 something now I would love to go there for a couple of years myself.
Firbre optic rollout was put out to tender twice I think it was over the last couple of years, and the bidders pulled out because of expense. Right now the Government has to pay who they can, because no one else, either domestically or internationally wants the project.
Digital hubs will be used, just not by everyone.
What you are bleating about is not a new phenomenon, the core of the PS/CS is in the capital, just as it is in a lot of countries. Having lived in both London and New York, I, like many others know that a high percentage of workers have to commute to work, sometimes long distances and over long time periods. Just because you have a commute doesn’t make you unique, but the sense of entitlement you are displaying might. No one owes you opportunities, you take them if you can get them. If you are willing to leave the PS or take a lower paid job, you might be able to move back to Donegal, but I doubt you would do that.
You think wind farms can just be put up wherever the investor wants because it is “our land”? Seriously?
2 -
Would this be a good time to revisit the question of security and confidentiality of online meetings and home users?
0 -
If the Taoiseach/pretend Taoiseach can still be Tánaiste with the expectation of being Taoiseach again in a few months despite having confessed to leaking a confidential document then I'd say maybe that and the daily leaks from the Cabinet should receive as much attention as someone recording a Zoom call and, apparently, nobody checking the logs yet to see who was doing the recording...
1 -
When the recording is done by someone leaving their mobile phone on their desk with voice record running, the logs aren't going to help you much.
0 -
Can you not do that in a regular meeting in the office?
5 -
Not if the guy beside you can see the voice record app running on your phone.
0 -
If it’s in your pocket? Or even just under some papers? I wasn’t suggesting having it face up on the desk so everyone can see! What kind of idiot do you think I am? I don’t see this as a work from home problem. If someone wants to record and leak, then they will
8 -
Advertisement
-
I can assure you that there are many ways the calls can be recorded, some include MITM eavesdropping to phones recording audio all the way to modified table lamps ets, plus a whole host of "plant ons" that can be stuck to the underside of the table.
If you want to go government grade evesdropping, then there is the ultrasonic window monitors and other similar systems.
0 -
There's also just leaving stuff lying on a printer or photocopier or just sitting on your desk; something far more likely to happen in an office than when you're WFH.
1 -
Oops, sorry, apologies, yeah, I am just a typical, spoiled PS worker...honestly...what a **** cliche....sense of entitlement? Who bailed out the bankers, the insurance companies and bankrupt developers when they fucked everything up in 2008? Who were sitting ducks for pay cuts on salaries that were well below private sector earnings when it came time to pay the piper?
I am not suggesting everyone in the PS work remotely. If that is what you honestly took from my argument then I am at a loss as to how you have formulated that opinion. I am talking about giving people the choice, where applicable, where appropriate, based on business needs and practicalities of how employees can fulfill their duties remotely.
Why the **** should I give up my PS job to work for some fly by night multinational for half what I am earning now anyway? You must think I am crazy!?!?
Whether you like it or not, this is our country and we deserve a better deal than the one we have now, where we are all crowded along the East Coast chasing our tails while half the country is under populated and reliant on seasonal employment or welfare payments.
What about all these wonderful jobs you speak of? The booming population? Half starved and exploited migrants and refugees working for peanuts in Meat Factories, on Trawlers, picking fruit and veg, riding bikes for Deliveroo in the pissing rain, etc, etc, bravo, hooray for Ireland.
As for the idea about public investment in renewables, your argument simply does not stack up....and you know it. Obviously u cant just stick wimdmills and solar farms anywhere, but there are plenty suitable places, some in close proximity to existing sub stations which would only require upgrading.
Foreign Renewable Energy Companies are not coming into the Irish market for the craic. They are coming because there are fortunes to be made. The new inter connectors being linked to France and the UK mean we will become net energy exporters within the next couple of decades....a shame folks like you are content to watch others reap the rewards instead of ourselves.
You are happy to let the 'free market' work its magic with light touch or self regulation until greed gets the better of the system again, it goes wallop and suddenly the tax payer is on the hook again! Ok to intervene then alright....This way, all the regulators, central bank officials, politicians, accountancy firms, ratings agencies, insurance companies and all these other pricks that went to private schools in Ballsbridge and the like, are bailed out so they can live to **** everything up again in 10 years time...great system altogether....
They are the REAL entitled assholes!
But that's just my opinion, you are free to, and almost certainly likely to, disagree....
1 -
I’m struggling to see what this has to do with topic of this thread, it just seems a rant by someone with an axe to grind/tree sized chip on their shoulder.
WFH will suit some employers and some employees, not all. Lots of posters here are planning to move jobs if their employer is determined to bring them back to offices, some have said they are willing to accept pay cuts because costs of living/commute will be lower and the benefits of wfh outweigh a higher wage. It seems likely that there will be lots of opportunities, perhaps you should be exploring these.
2 -
Nordner, I'm sure you are a very diligent worker but I think the government and the general public would be worried about productivity if wfh was widespread across large areas of the public service. Its one thing for individual companies allowing wfh but its a while other thing when the salaries of these people is paid by public expenditure.
I'm not trying to kick the public service sector here but we all know there are severe issues with productivity and accountibility and I don't think widespread remote working would help this. A lot of public services got a lot worse during covid in my opinion and some have still not got back to normal productivity.
The public service has many many perks over private employment but remote working is one where I think private employment will have the advantage. If its that important to anyone who wants to work remotely they can look for employment in the private sector. You can't have it all.
Post edited by Klonker on4 -
Oops, sorry, apologies, yeah, I am just a typical, spoiled PS worker...honestly...what a **** cliche....sense of entitlement? Who bailed out the bankers, the insurance companies and bankrupt developers when they fucked everything up in 2008? Who were sitting ducks for pay cuts on salaries that were well below private sector earnings when it came time to pay the piper?
Just as an aside, this is probably the wrong hill to die on considering the number of private sector workers who lost their jobs entirely!
The bottom line is that employers will decide what WFH options (if any) they offer staff. The staff can either accept that or move on to another company that will give them a better deal - the recent (in my view pointless and optics driven) legislation gives no actual right to it, merely to ask which was always there.
I've previously worked in the PS myself for a few years, and the truth is that it's a very different world of inefficiency, with too many disinterested staff who do the absolute minimum (generally those there for years), no performance reviews (in the 4 years I was there I never had even one), and many working less hours than a standard week and the place would be deserted minutes after quitting time (no staying on to finish something that was due etc). Plus as you highlighted, they are insulated from the reality of the economy. Although they may not get big bonuses or the ability to negotiate salary increases, those salaries will increase over time and the majority are protected from job losses regardless of what is happening at national levels.
There's already a lot of benefits over the private sector if you take the longer term view. It's unreasonable to expect another "right" (to WFH) that no one else gets on top of that.
3 -
Exactly I mean how often do you see paper jams or people queuing up and picking up the wrong item from the printer.
We had the gem of when working from home it's possible someone has the monitor by the window and anybody could peak in and see what is on your computer.
In work anybody can sit beside you for a chat and look at your screen and also how often do you see people wander off and not lock their computer where anybody can wander over to look.
These are situations where working from home is better for security.
3 -
This. My partner's being made redundant for the second time in a decade because their very profitable multinational has decided they can make even more profits if all their back office stuff is done from Poland instead of Ireland. Yay, private sector! 🙄
1 -
Sorry to hear that...precisely why I will NOT be leaving public sector without a fight!
For the rest of the begrudgers, you are the ones with chips on your shoulders, I have two Redwood sized ones, so I am well balanced at least! 😂
Sure its good to have these ould chats anyways, even if we are all pretty much stuck in our individual echo chambers with no chance of ever changing each others minds.
Amazingly, many of my friends and family work in the private sector, as have I in the past. Some even run their own successful businesses and what not...times have been tough for them lately too but they are relatively well insulated and continue to enjoy all the nifty little tax loopholes and accountancy tricks that aren't available to us mere mortals and paye workers.
I bet some of you think Joe Rogan is a racist and that Russel Brand is a rightwing zealot as well or that Boris Johnson and Donald Trump are refreshingly unconventional and amusing Mavericks, who tell it like it is even though the bleeding heart liberals hate to hear it....such is life...
Anyways, I will keep on trucking lads and leave yis too it.
I hope your partner gets another job asap TaurenDruid. Capita are currently hiring and remote working is available too. Best of luck!
2 -
Advertisement
-
I completely agree with you and it's good to read someone on the same page as myself. There are also lots of workers who feel the same but there doesn't appear to be a collective voice with this.
I'm a public servant working in Dublin, I also have worked remotely since March 2020. None of my work duties require me to attend the office but the Department has summoned everyone back on a phased basis. The plan is to increase the number of days in the office over the coming months. There has been no choice for workers in this, no discussion or consultation. From speaking to others in my Department, they want the choice to work remotely for family reasons or not wanting to return to the commute. However, to the best of my knowledge I don't believe they are fighting it or making their voices heard and are just accepting what the Department and DPER are dishing out.
I have a disability and chronic illness so working from home has been positive and a game changer for me. I do not want to go back to working in the office, as it impacts on my health and energy. I can manage my disability much better at home and my work duties are not affected. I can work longer hours and I have more capacity. Why I am being forced back to a routine that negatively impacts on my health is beyond me. There is no question here of my ability to do my job.
There has been zero consideration for people with disabilities in the discussion about remote work and return to the office. I am high risk and have personal concerns in relation to Covid and being back in an office with hundreds of people, concerns which are supported by my medical team. Yet, I was told directly by HR there are no accommodations for those with disabilities and remote work. This is after 2 years working from home and knowing it's possible. The communications I've had with HR in relation to this have been absolutely appalling and callous.
I also support your points about rural development. If I was given the opportunity for permanent remote working, I would leave Dublin. The pressure to survive here is too much and is no good for quality of life. I pay ridiculous rent for little space and it's unsustainable long-term.
I have been in contact with Fórsa and they advised they are waiting for the official long-term policies on remote working from DPER and the remote working bill etc. Their hands seem to be tied because of the policies in place. I also urge workers to make their voices heard on this and keep the pressure on. I will be contacting my local TDs, which include a Green Party representative. You would think looking at the return to chronic traffic levels this would be a no brainer for the Greens!
I also fully support those who want and need to work in the office. This is about choice and compromise and not going backwards. The approach that has been taken so far in regards to remote work and return to the office is going to push a lot of good workers out. I'm currently looking for another job due to the lack of choice to work remotely and also my dealings with HR have completely soured my experience.
13
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
