Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Working From Home Megathread

Options
1…1920222425…259

Comments

  • Options
    #632
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Gael23 wrote: »
    If they realise they can get people in India to do the same work remotely for half the cost they will jump ship fairly fast
    Ì imagine the CEOs of these corporations are already aware they could outsource to India and that there's reasons they haven't.


  • Options
    #633
    andrew1977
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    Gael23 wrote: »
    If they realise they can get people in India to do the same work remotely for half the cost they will jump ship fairly fast

    In the industry I am in, I know of one big company who outsourced their whole customer support/operations support/billing from Ireland to India expecting a big win.
    It was a complete disaster from start to finish, didn't work, they lost the local touch/local market knowledge /customer frustration.

    Decision was reversed in 12 months, not all companies are looking for cheap labour if their company is successful model as it is.


  • Options
    #634
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Gael23 wrote: »
    If they realise they can get people in India to do the same work remotely for half the cost they will jump ship fairly fast

    Companies are aware of this for years. Companies have tried it, some have failed some have worked, some have parts working.

    Lots of us have been "competing globally" in this regard for years and doing well. Lot of fear mongering in this thread!


  • Options
    #635
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Are you a contractor in a high skill specialist area?

    If not then why would your employer pay someone say €5,000 a month to work in a country like Vietnam where the average wage is around $500 a month?

    Also you have to declare your tax residency in Vietnam so would your employer be willing to give you a new contract that sets out all your liabilities for tax and local labour laws?

    Yes, I'm a contractor managing projects across all regions. I can move with my laptop and phone. A skilled area and HQ is in the states so English Language proficiency required to report in. Our business is a global one and travel is the norm.

    I'm only talking a out doing it temporarily. May be more hassle than it's worth.


  • Options
    #636
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭Naos


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Interesting to read some of the comments on here...

    One fact is, one persons working from home is anothers P45... All the support services and related businesses in the city losing out from office workers not being in the building, or not buying coffee's and sandwiches, not hailing a Taxi, buying a new shirt for going out later, not going out later to pubs/restaurants...City council then losing out on rates from businesses that have had to close...
    We're not London, Paris or New York here, the only city we have in Ireland really is Dublin... When that starts to decline then there's just not the size of population and numbers of businesses to support a strong bounceback when workers start returning to offices, in Irish cities it will be a very slow gradual thing which will take many years to get back to what was there pre-Covid.

    You may think "uh who cares, I'm saving a lot of time and money".... Fine, so two things can happen here.. Most jobs in Finance, Tech, Pharma that can be done from home can easily be moved to a lower cost EU country unless your skills require an intimate knowledge of Irish law/politics or whatever... Many EU countries have a high level of young very well educated people so don't think you're special..
    Also if you're working at home and not expected to go into the office and incur the extra time and expenses, then you won't mind taking a paycut either? So you can continue to work from home even when Govt. say you can return, then you can take a 10% paycut.... That will soon soften the cough of many who are happy sat at home in their Pj's watching the laptop on one side and TV on the other..

    I'll refer to my earlier analogy. What you're stating would be akin to having a nail in your foot and every week, you have to call a taxi to bring you to a doctor, so they can give you a prescription in order to buy painkillers from a chemist and instead of just removing the nail, we say "Sorry but you need to keep the nail in your foot or else the taxi, doctor & chemist will go out of business".

    Can you see the comparison?
    Kilboor wrote: »
    That's great so what's your solution for graduates or those on lower wages living in a house with 8 others working and sleeping in the same room? The only escape these people have is to go to the office. Other people here saying that young people should travel abroad and work from different places. THat's fantastic and will definitely be beneficial to OUR economy :rolleyes:

    Living with a house with 8 other people.. graduates are doing this now are they? Well if I didn't grow up in Dublin, chances are I'd have mates around the same age as myself and I'd houseshare with them, same as when I houseshared in Dublin (with a few mates).


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #637
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Naos wrote: »
    I'll refer to my earlier analogy. What you're stating would be akin to having a nail in your foot and every week, you have to call a taxi to bring you to a doctor, so they can give you a prescription in order to buy painkillers from a chemist and instead of just removing the nail, we say "Sorry but you need to keep the nail in your foot or else the taxi, doctor & chemist will go out of business".
    Can you see the comparison?
    Living with a house with 8 other people.. graduates are doing this now are they? Well if I didn't grow up in Dublin, chances are I'd have mates around the same age as myself and I'd houseshare with them, same as when I houseshared in Dublin (with a few mates).

    Well i'd hope you still get a Taxi to the Doctor and get a tetanus shot after you wrenched the nail out of your foot!

    Because the majority of people are now sat at home happy as Larry now they don't have to buy that coffee, catch that Taxi, go to a restaurant after work to socialise then real people suffer: https://www.thejournal.ie/taxi-protest-dublin-5205121-Sep2020/


  • Options
    #638
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭Naos


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Global companies will go anywhere they can hire the qualified staff, the main reason they are here is for tax breaks.
    Staff in Central Europe etc. tend to be all University educated, multi-lingual and young, and a lot of them moved to Ireland to take up jobs in the big tech/pharma/finance areas and I'm sure would love the chance to go home and afford to buy a nice house and a decent standard of living. Paying €2,000+ a month to live in a one bed apartment and all the higher costs of living here isn't that appealing.

    But they can do this anyway, regardless of WFH or not?

    So can you explain why a company would choose to stay in Ireland, paying high rents & high salaries if they can just open an office in Eastern Europe/India instead and pay low rents & low salaries?


  • Options
    #639
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,772 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Naos wrote: »
    But they can do this anyway, regardless of WFH or not?

    So can you explain why a company would choose to stay in Ireland, paying high rents & high salaries if they can just open an office in Eastern Europe/India instead and pay low rents & low salaries?

    What are people not getting? If Google can see you sitting at your desk in your office in Grand Canal they'll pay you 100k a year, if they don't get to look at you sitting in the office in Grand Canal they'll send your job to India. It's so simple.

    Only joking. The real reason is that because they don't have to worry about providing dog-sitting services anymore, Google have had to free time since the pandemic started to discover the existence of low-cost geos.


  • Options
    #640
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Well i'd hope you still get a Taxi to the Doctor and get a tetanus shot after you wrenched the nail out of your foot!

    Because the majority of people are now sat at home happy as Larry now they don't have to buy that coffee, catch that Taxi, go to a restaurant after work to socialise then real people suffer: https://www.thejournal.ie/taxi-protest-dublin-5205121-Sep2020/

    The people at home are 'real people' too. Many of whom have spent years undertaking soul destroying commutes, barely know their neighbours because they're either at work or getting to and from work, have to drop their kids at creches while it's still dark and don't see them again until nearly bedtime and are so time poor they have to eat their breakfast in the car or feed their kids a constant stream of processed microwaved dinners. They have no time for interests or hobbies or a social life and are forced to pay crazy prices for tiny houses on soulless estates to be within any kind of commuting distance from their workplace.

    Stubbornly insisting that people are forced back into that lifestyle to keep the wheels going on an economic model that is structured around the needs of a few at the expense of everyone else is destructive and shortsighted.


  • Options
    #641
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Well i'd hope you still get a Taxi to the Doctor and get a tetanus shot after you wrenched the nail out of your foot!

    Because the majority of people are now sat at home happy as Larry now they don't have to buy that coffee, catch that Taxi, go to a restaurant after work to socialise then real people suffer: https://www.thejournal.ie/taxi-protest-dublin-5205121-Sep2020/

    The reality is that there are absolutely going to be winners and losers from this kind of change.

    It's not really hyperbole to say that this shift in working patterns is a part of the 4th Industrial revolution.

    There will be adjustments , certain jobs and positions will cease to exist or exist in much lower numbers. There's a theory that says that up to 85% of graduate jobs in 2030 don't exist yet. Personally think that is overstating it , but certainly there's a huge degree of change coming in terms of jobs and employment.

    The example you give of Taxi-drivers - They are going to be under even more pressure with the advent of Autonomous vehicles etc.

    Things change , things move forward - Sometimes slowly and steadily , sometimes is rapid leaps like what may happen now.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #642
    Cina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,387 ✭✭✭Cina


    Gael23 wrote: »
    If they realise they can get people in India to do the same work remotely for half the cost they will jump ship fairly fast

    I keep seeing this but it makes no sense.

    Having employees working from home is CHEAPER for these big multinationals. Less office rent, no food, electricity etc. etc. There was nothing stopping them from moving to cheaper Indian offices when people worked in the offices and likewise nothing to stop them doing it now.

    So.. how exactly does employers transitioning to working at home = cheaper for employers = let's move away to India instead?


  • Options
    #643
    Kilboor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Kilboor


    The loss of unskilled jobs does make the case for UBI. As mentioned with autonomy increasingly becoming more prevalent it may be time to start implementing a sort of basic income.

    Now if only the government could provide affordable housing.


  • Options
    #644
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Dublin pubs closed so the city is under the NPHET-FFFG Level 3 - So continue to work from home... most likely until October 2022...

    Fixed that for you.


  • Options
    #645
    andrew1977
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    Our company intended dragging a full office back on the 21st September, this is now shelved and they have informed us to continue working from home and they will update us Friday 2nd October with further details.

    We are on level 2 as per the government now, when is the next review nationally to happen again to decide on our level ? 3 weeks from today ?

    Edit : Found my answer, 3 weeks from today for the next review.


  • Options
    #646
    brwh11
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭brwh11


    andrew1977 wrote: »
    Our company intended dragging a full office back on the 21st September, this is now shelved and they have informed us to continue working from home and they will update us Friday 2nd October with further details.

    We are on level 2 as per the government now, when is the next review nationally to happen again to decide on our level ? 3 weeks from today ?

    Edit : Found my answer, 3 weeks from today for the next review.

    Level 1 also clearly states remote working where possible should continue


  • Options
    #647
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Seems clear that a lot of companies will not embrace WFH and will want everyone back in the office.


  • Options
    #648
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Some companies will continue with it and others will want everyone back in the office. I guess it depends on the type of work and how forward looking the company is. I think it is much easier for more experienced employees. It is difficult for more junior team members, so another aspect to consider would be the make up of the team. It works where there is a lot of reciprocal flexibility from company and employee.
    I can't see it working long term for the public sector. The number of hours worked as a measure of productivity doesn't really work with WFH. There is also the adversarial relationship between employer and the employees. It is a huge benefit for an employee to be able to work from home, so it would be silly to give the benefit away for nothing. Eaten bread is soon forgotten.


  • Options
    #649
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭Naos


    beauf wrote: »
    Seems clear that a lot of companies will not embrace WFH and will want everyone back in the office.

    Where are you seeing this or is it just the sentiment in this thread?


  • Options
    #650
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Some companies will continue with it and others will want everyone back in the office. I guess it depends on the type of work and how forward looking the company is. I think it is much easier for more experienced employees. It is difficult for more junior team members, so another aspect to consider would be the make up of the team. It works where there is a lot of reciprocal flexibility from company and employee.
    I can't see it working long term for the public sector. The number of hours worked as a measure of productivity doesn't really work with WFH. There is also the adversarial relationship between employer and the employees. It is a huge benefit for an employee to be able to work from home, so it would be silly to give the benefit away for nothing. Eaten bread is soon forgotten.

    I'm sure the public, like the private sector, has learned a lot over the past few months and will be just as likely to shift towards more flexible working arrangements.


  • Options
    #651
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »
    I'm sure the public, like the private sector, has learned a lot over the past few months and will be just as likely to shift towards more flexible working arrangements.

    I am sure it has learned a lot. My point is that it would be silly of the employer to give a benefit away like that for free in the public sector.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #652
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Naos wrote: »
    Where are you seeing this or is it just the sentiment in this thread?

    Just people I know and this thread. Could be completely unrepresentative for sure. I doubt it though.


  • Options
    #653
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Kilboor wrote: »
    The loss of unskilled jobs does make the case for UBI. As mentioned with autonomy increasingly becoming more prevalent it may be time to start implementing a sort of basic income.

    Now if only the government could provide affordable housing.

    That's thinking WFH are highly skilled, most aren't.


  • Options
    #654
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    I am sure it has learned a lot. My point is that it would be silly of the employer to give a benefit away like that for free in the public sector.

    It's not a benefit. It's a recognition of the fact that many people proved their jobs can be done from home. I don't actually understand your point.


  • Options
    #655
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »
    It's not a benefit. It's a recognition of the fact that many people proved their jobs can be done from home. I don't actually understand your point.

    It is a benefit. My point is that in a situation like the public sector, where any changes in conditions will be met with resistance from the staff/unions, it would be silly of the employer to give this benefit for nothing.


  • Options
    #656
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    It is a benefit. My point is that in a situation like the public sector, where any changes in conditions will be met with resistance from the staff/unions, it would be silly of the employer to give this benefit for nothing.

    They've already agreed one day a week with public sector?


  • Options
    #657
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    It is a benefit. My point is that in a situation like the public sector, where any changes in conditions will be met with resistance from the staff/unions, it would be silly of the employer to give this benefit for nothing.

    Why? It's a way of attracting and retaining good staff. The govt has already said that public servants, where possible, will be expected to work 20 per cent of their working werk from home.Are you suggesting that public and civil servants should be asked to take a cut in salary or a reduction in annual leave in return for continuing to do the job they've already proved can be done effectively from home?


  • Options
    #658
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »
    Why? It's a way of attracting and retaining good staff. The govt has already said that public servants, where possible, will be expected to work 20 per cent of their working werk from home.Are you suggesting that public and civil servants should be asked to take a cut in salary or a reduction in annual leave in return for continuing to do the job they've already proved can be done effectively from home?

    No, I am certainly not suggesting they should take a pay cut or anything of the sort. If the government was looking for extra flexibility from staff, it would not be given for free. So, my view is really just the flip side of that.


  • Options
    #659
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    No, I am certainly not suggesting they should take a pay cut or anything of the sort. If the government was looking for extra flexibility from staff, it would not be given for free. So, my view is really just the flip side of that.

    Sorry but you're still not making any sense..


  • Options
    #660
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,611 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    It is a benefit. My point is that in a situation like the public sector, where any changes in conditions will be met with resistance from the staff/unions, it would be silly of the employer to give this benefit for nothing.

    Out of curiosity, what should the government look for in this quid pro quo?

    The reason for the 20% WFH in the programme for government is to reduce transport emissions so they're not really offering it out of the kindness of their hearts in the first place.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #661
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    No, I am certainly not suggesting they should take a pay cut or anything of the sort. If the government was looking for extra flexibility from staff, it would not be given for free. So, my view is really just the flip side of that.

    Why are you being so coy about all this? Just say what you want to say.


Advertisement