Working From Home Megathread

Yoga7

color_girl wrote: »

That sounds like a very sensible approach from your company and our place would be structured the same, some roles like our production would be essential to be in the building.

You see this is the problem - they wouldnt entertain my questions, I got shut down when I asked anything in relation to why. When I asked for examples of any issues, there wasnt any (because my manager has already told them I'm working very well from home), when I asked why I was 'needed' back in the office, I wasnt given an answer just that 'this was a decision made for the business and its what is going to happen'. I know they dont have any robust procedures or process in place for WFH because it has never happened before but the Government is supporting companies in formulating all of that as it is a temporary situation.

Thats a very good point - the role does function independently from anywhere, I do work with a team, and we do need to have group meetings which have been working fine for brainstorming or any level of creativity is working fine. The rest of the team members still have to isolate themselves in the office to join meetings via individual computers because they arent allowed in a meeting room together so it literally would change nothing, we still arent allowed in the same room as each other anyway. I've been with the company for a good number of years and I'm not required to manage anyone or anything, the tasks are all completed exactly as they were before, with more speed and comprehension according to my manager as I've less distractions.

I got no constructive answers, all I got in a very repetitive and 'dont push us on this' manner was that it was the decision that was made for the good of the company, and that was the end of it.

Is there any update on your situation this week?

nearzero

Yoga7 wrote: »

Is there any update on your situation this week?

They contacted me to say that they are delaying my return until the lockdown in Dublin is lifted, even though we arent in Dublin, the numbers are just quite high everywhere.

But they are sending over emails outlining my return after the lockdown, I think I'm going to have to speak to my GP, I dont really know what else to do

Yoga7

color_girl wrote: »

They contacted me to say that they are delaying my return until the lockdown in Dublin is lifted, even though we arent in Dublin, the numbers are just quite high everywhere.

But they are sending over emails outlining my return after the lockdown, I think I'm going to have to speak to my GP, I dont really know what else to do

I'm glad they have left you along temporarily but that just makes it all the more crazy! If you can work from home perfectly fine now during the lockdown, then why not when the lockdown has ended? It just makes no sense.

Its a good idea to speak to your GP but in the case I know of, GP letters are being ignored.

It is far too easy for companies to ignore the guidelines if they dont believe in WFH and unfortunately it doesn't look like the Irish government are going to come out with any strong messaging on this like the UK did yesterday.

nearzero

Yoga7 wrote: »

I'm glad they have left you along temporarily but that just makes it all the more crazy! If you can work from home perfectly fine now during the lockdown, then why not when the lockdown has ended? It just makes no sense.

Its a good idea to speak to your GP but in the case I know of, GP letters are being ignored.

It is far too easy for companies to ignore the guidelines if they dont believe in WFH and unfortunately it doesn't look like the Irish government are going to come out with any strong messaging on this like the UK did yesterday.

I think thats really the most frustrating part - it makes no sense!

And it does leave them liable aswell which again make no sense they would want to do that - if they ignore GP & Government advice, and anyone gets sick... not good.

But seems I'm not the only one - alot of companies are doing the same

seefin

color_girl wrote: »

I think thats really the most frustrating part - it makes no sense!

And it does leave them liable aswell which again make no sense they would want to do that - if they ignore GP & Government advice, and anyone gets sick... not good.

But seems I'm not the only one - alot of companies are doing the same

Afaik, your line manager is criminally liable under h&s legislation if he is negligent and causes you to get injured/sick? If he has no real reason for bringing you into work and against advice of your GP, i cant see how that legislation wouldn't apply in the case of covid?
Stand to be corrected. I just remember in my workplace, when the h &s legislation was passed a few years ago,managers were all sh*tting themselves as knew the buck could stop with them if an employee was hurt. I think previously the company insurance would pay out so there was no personal consequences for them but that's changed now. I could be completely wrong , anyone know if this is the case?

Jim Root

Yoga7 wrote: »

A similar situation happening in a company I know of which is in Dublin and is choosing to ignore the guidelines.

The view being that if schools are back and we can still meet people socially, what harm is it being in the office.

In my opinion, this ultimately comes down to a lack of trust and nothing else. Why else force people to come into an office when the work can be done remotely and there has been no performance issues over the last 6 months?

I wish these companies/managers would wake up and realise that everyone has a part to play in all of this. Those who can do their work from home should stay at home, to make it safer for those who have no choice but to go out into the community everyday.

I've been following this thread for a while to try to get a sense of what other companies approach to WFH has been. For the most part, it does seem that employers are being reasonable. However, there are clearly a few who are choosing to ignore the guidelines and force staff in against their will.
I'm relieved to hear that the HSA were clear in their advice because there seems to be very little support out there for people in this situation. I'm sure most companies who are ignoring gov guidelines expect any discontentment among staff will be brushed under the rug.

Individual staff might believe there is no productivity issue WFH but the management might be seeing a wider trend and are acting accordingly in the best long term interest of the company.

inthenip

Jim Root wrote: »

Individual staff might believe there is no productivity issue WFH but the management might be seeing a wider trend and are acting accordingly in the best long term interest of the company.

More than likely high horse managers who have nothing else going on in their lives and live for work.

If their is good IT conferencing it shouldn't make a difference.

Yoga7

Jim Root wrote: »

Individual staff might believe there is no productivity issue WFH but the management might be seeing a wider trend and are acting accordingly in the best long term interest of the company.

If there is a wider trend of productivity issues, then those issues should be dealt with on an individual basis. How does forcing all staff into an office improve the trend?

I strongly believe if there are productivity issues among employees WFH, the same issues were/will be present in the office environment.

Whilst the long term interest of the company is important, what about the long term health of employees? Of their people.. To ignore this during a pandemic is unacceptable.

nearzero

Jim Root wrote: »

Individual staff might believe there is no productivity issue WFH but the management might be seeing a wider trend and are acting accordingly in the best long term interest of the company.

My company openingly admitted to me that there was no issues with productivity, infact the opposite - everyone was working better from home, was more efficient and had less distractions in completing their work. They also agreed my work would be interrupted because they have 2 hours cleaning rotas for the staff that must be completed aswell which you have to do alongside your actual job.

But it wasn't open for discussion, the company decision was to bring everyone back to the office -regardless of anything.

My direct line manager doesnt want me back in, but they are being overruled. Its a very strange situation - I think my frustration lies with the lack of understanding on how this is a good decision or the reasoning behind it.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

I think control freakery, ignorance and lack of real managerial skills is behind this kind of attitude.

jrosen

I would imagine those who want to stay working from home will have a vested interest in claiming to be more productive, the same as those who want a return to the office have a vested interest and will claim people are less productive.

Id imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle. But business either offer work from home or they dont. Could you imagine the line to HR from mary who has been refused work from home access when the colleague next to her has the option.

The reality is everyone will be back to the office in some shape or form when covid dies down. The companies who had generous work from home options pre covid will still be the same and those who didnt will probably push to return to their old ways. Some business will have adapted and made changes for the better.
Hopefully a balance will be found that offers flexibility to people. I think we could all do with a little traffic, a little less pollution and a little more time.

antimatterx

I want to do a 3/2 day split once it's safe. I don't want if it's 3 days in the office, or 3 at home. I just need some sort of in person interaction.

As much as I love WFH, it doesn't feel like a proper career, not being in the office ever.

blackwave

Kiith wrote: »

Thats what i was thinking. We could stay in a family home in Sicily, pay little to no rent for a few months, and i'd still be able to work away as normal. Just not sure what the legality of it is, from a tax point of view. Probably a Tax forum question tbf.

I know if it goes over a certain period you and the company will incur tax. On your side you maybe double taxed on your income and the company is liable for additional tax and this can be quite painful particularly if they don't have a base of operations in that country as it be seen as a new company so would be red tape to go through.

blackwave

Aniya Tiny Saucepan wrote: »

The question is how will your company, revenue or the revenue in the other country find out if you don’t volunteer the info that you are living abroad especially if it’s for a longish period but not for good.

Your company will know through VPNing into their environment, so your IT team can see it and if they have any half decent system it would surely be a red flag. Know of one employee who went to the Ukraine to work from home on the sly and when they tried logging in they weren't able to VPN and our IT team flagged it straight and they were told to come back to Poland as we don;t have a base of operations there and is outside of EU as well.

Happydays2020

I have a team of 15 working remotely. All our metrics are up and we have used this opportunity to roll out some change programmes.

We have adjusted since the beginning with less team meetings as I don’t think there is any need for meetings for the sake of meetings. I am also encouraging staff to get out and have walks etc.

Not everything is perfect and it does not suit everyone but I have been trying to find ways around that. We will have some challenges in on boarding new staff but are putting together a new induction programme and there will also be challenges in ensuring the same level of inclusivity when there is blended attendance.

While my personal preference will be to attend the office nearly 100% when the time allows I am strongly in favour of continuing a high degree of WFH as things normalise.

KaneToad

Mr.S wrote: »

Nothing wrong with 100% remote, but personally not for me. I enjoy the social side of going into an office / change of scenery.

Nothing wrong with 100% office based, but personally not for me. I don't enjoy the social side of going into an office / change of scenery.

Yoga7

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I have a team of 15 working remotely. All our metrics are up and we have used this opportunity to roll out some change programmes.

We have adjusted since the beginning with less team meetings as I don’t think there is any need for meetings for the sake of meetings. I am also encouraging staff to get out and have walks etc.

Not everything is perfect and it does not suit everyone but I have been trying to find ways around that. We will have some challenges in on boarding new staff but are putting together a new induction programme and there will also be challenges in ensuring the same level of inclusivity when there is blended attendance.

While my personal preference will be to attend the office nearly 100% when the time allows I am strongly in favour of continuing a high degree of WFH as things normalise.

Thats amazing. Fair play to you.

Its great to hear some managers are focused on making WFH work well for the business and employees, even if your own personal preference long term is to be in the office.

My own personal preference long term is to do a mix of office and WFH too. Personally, if I was at home every day and others in the office, I would feel as though I was missing out!

However I am so frustrated by the current situation of some companies forcing staff into an office for no good reason, especially in Dublin with the current restrictions.
There was some reference to the WFH guidelines in an RTE article again yesterday, but the message doesn't seem to be getting through to those who are set on ignoring it.

"For people who live in Donegal and Dublin remember Government advice is to work from home unless it is essential to attend in person"

strandroad

blackwave wrote: »

Your company will know through VPNing into their environment, so your IT team can see it and if they have any half decent system it would surely be a red flag. Know of one employee who went to the Ukraine to work from home on the sly and when they tried logging in they weren't able to VPN and our IT team flagged it straight and they were told to come back to Poland as we don;t have a base of operations there and is outside of EU as well.

In my company it would be a gross misconduct situation; they took the data outside of EU and therefore GDPR.

blackwave

blackwave wrote: »

Your company will know through VPNing into their environment, so your IT team can see it and if they have any half decent system it would surely be a red flag. Know of one employee who went to the Ukraine to work from home on the sly and when they tried logging in they weren't able to VPN and our IT team flagged it straight and they were told to come back to Poland as we don;t have a base of operations there and is outside of EU as well.

As it is such a serious issue and is likely to be something that's happening more going forward I'd question if this method was a robust enough way of combatting it since there are ways around it. It also doesn't account for companies who don't use VPN to their servers but are cloud based now etc.

It certainly something that companies will have to tighten up on as working from home becomes more the norm. Time will tell I guess but we might see a few cases of it highlighted and if the outcomes are serious then it will become even more important for companies to ensure its not happening.

Icantthinkof1

Can I please ask for some advice about my present work situation
I have a health condition which puts me in the high risk category and I also work in a high risk environment. WFH is not an option for me
I am based in an office with another colleague we both have our desks 2 meters apart which is fine.
However we do not sit at ours desks all day
I’ve been told that work will not enforce that my colleague wear a mask while in the office working with me.
Have I any rights here? It seems bizarre that in my local GP surgery they have 2 people at reception who are mainly stationed at their computers at their socially distanced desks and they are all wearing masks?!
Thanks in advance if anyone has any advice

JDD

I suppose the difference between your office and a GPs surgery is the fact that there is a turnover of patients during the day, with all those patients being sick in some fashion.

Is your office well ventilated? I don't mean air conditioning, I mean can you open a window?

Honestly I think if someone is in an unventilated office with you for eight hours a day, sometimes being 2m away and sometimes being closer, a cloth mask isn't going to make a vast amount of difference. What will make a difference is fresh air coming into the room and diluting any of those lingering droplets.

I know air temperature in an office is a topic of heated debate, but perhaps you could get an under desk heater for your colleague as peace offering, and keep the window open all day long?

Icantthinkof1

JDD wrote: »

I suppose the difference between your office and a GPs surgery is the fact that there is a turnover of patients during the day, with all those patients being sick in some fashion.

Is your office well ventilated? I don't mean air conditioning, I mean can you open a window?

Honestly I think if someone is in an unventilated office with you for eight hours a day, sometimes being 2m away and sometimes being closer, a cloth mask isn't going to make a vast amount of difference. What will make a difference is fresh air coming into the room and diluting any of those lingering droplets.

I know air temperature in an office is a topic of heated debate, but perhaps you could get an under desk heater for your colleague as peace offering, and keep the window open all day long?

Thanks for your reply, yes perhaps you’re right in that cloth masks might make little difference if we’re in the same room for most of our workdays anyways

Ventilation is poor. No air conditioning which I don’t mind. Our windows do not open out fully but he would be open to leaving the windows open as far as they can throughout our working days together

strandroad

Is the colleague not willing to wear a mask? They cpould do it as a favour, even if it's not mandated by company policy.

Icantthinkof1

strandroad wrote: »

Is the colleague not willing to wear a mask? They cpould do it as a favour, even if it's not mandated by company policy.

No he said he wouldn’t wear a mask all day and he is aware of my medical condition.
To be fair to him I can kind of see where he is coming from with that too, if I didn’t have a medical condition I probably wouldn’t want to wear a mask for more or less my whole work day either

strandroad

Any chance your desk could be temporarily moved somewhere else? So that the bulk of your day is not spent in a closed shared space?

Quin_Dub

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

No he said he wouldn’t wear a mask all day and he is aware of my medical condition.
To be fair to him I can kind of see where he is coming from with that too, if I didn’t have a medical condition I probably wouldn’t want to wear a mask for more or less my whole work day either

Everybodies Kids are wearing masks all day in school though.

It's also not all day for them , it's just when you are in the room.

I assume you are wearing a mask at all times.

Icantthinkof1

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Everybodies Kids are wearing masks all day in school though.

It's also not all day for them , it's just when you are in the room.

I assume you are wearing a mask at all times.

Yes I am wearing my mask all day

Icantthinkof1

strandroad wrote: »

Any chance your desk could be temporarily moved somewhere else? So that the bulk of your day is not spent in a closed shared space?

Unfortunately that’s not an option either

2lazytogetup

have employers allowed you guys to go into office/work to retrieve anything. ive left a few things that i want to pick up. after 6 months i think i should be allowed to go back. they make it hard requiring all these top management level approvals.

ELM327

2lazytogetup wrote: »

have employers allowed you guys to go into office/work to retrieve anything. ive left a few things that i want to pick up. after 6 months i think i should be allowed to go back. they make it hard requiring all these top management level approvals.

Not yet and I'm waiting to get the OK to do so