Working From Home Megathread

J Mysterio

I'm doing contract work for the public service and absolutely everybody in the team/ departmenr/ division are WFH with absolutely no pressure on this and no questions asked.

Techold

J Mysterio wrote: »

I'm doing contract work for the public service and absolutely everybody in the team/ departmenr/ division are WFH with absolutely no pressure on this and no questions asked.

Come to Longford. Unions !!!!!!!

c68zapdsm5i1ru

What department in Longford is forcing non essential staff back? Is it a small office with some mini Hitler idiot throwing their weight around, or a large Dept with very senior CS approving this ignoring of level 5 rules?

Techold

Dept of Social Protection

J Mysterio

Techold wrote: »

Dept of Social Protection

Ah, the irony.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

They should get on to Fórsa. It's totally against level 5 rules and disgraceful behaviour coming from a govt department.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

I see the govt is to announce new laws around the right to work from home and to disengage from work after hours.

RacoonQueen

Naos wrote: »

Put it back on her.

How is it ripping the piss when your work is not suffering, you're doing the same if not more.

If she contests that in any way such as "Ah come on, you know you don't do as much from home", just disagree with her. Why was she not working 100% when she was WFH? Why was she ripping the piss?

Yeah I don't understand this. I'm more productive working from home. Less distractions. The office is busy and noisy...trip to the bathroom could take you 30 mins because at least one person will stop you as you pass their desk, most of the time for something irrelevant. People desk drop, face to face meetings can take longer...the amount of work we have got done over the last 10 months because you don't have the same volume of 'urgent' ad hoc stuff that people can so easily dump on you when they're able to drop by your desk.

Never did understand the idea that working from home = dossing, I always did it occasionally when I needed to really focus on a single task.

silverharp

its a win win , on the one hand if things are quiet dont have to do presentisism on the other if something needs to happen in the evening or the weekend, no problem rowing in

average_runner

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Yeah I don't understand this. I'm more productive working from home. Less distractions. The office is busy and noisy...trip to the bathroom could take you 30 mins because at least one person will stop you as you pass their desk, most of the time for something irrelevant. People desk drop, face to face meetings can take longer...the amount of work we have got done over the last 10 months because you don't have the same volume of 'urgent' ad hoc stuff that people can so easily dump on you when they're able to drop by your desk.

Never did understand the idea that working from home = dossing, I always did it occasionally when I needed to really focus on a single task.

Way more focus at home and saves the stupid bus journey in.

orlaxxx

Working from home atm in my first post college job and I absolutely hate it. I’m between my parents house and a house share, neither are ideal when WFH. I feel totally isolated, disconnected from the company and I am learning nothing. Really hope we’ll back to the office come summer.

BrianD3

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

I see the govt is to announce new laws around the right to work from home and to disengage from work after hours.

Yes that's interesting, saw it on RTE this morning

Legislation will be introduced by the end of September entitling employees to request remote working arrangements.

While they will not automatically be entitled to remote working arrangements, the employer will be required to give a reasoned response as to why that cannot happen.

If the employee is not happy with this justification, he/she will able to take a case to the Workplace Relations Commission.

The last bit will scare bad public service managers. What we have at the moment are managers who don't know what their staff do (as that would require work and engagement on the manager's part) but yet, are sure that the staff have been doing nothing since starting WFH. First sign of Covid improving, staff ordered back to the office. If manager asked for explanation, refer to contract or use the great catch all phrase of a bad manager "decisions are at the discretion of management".

Any staff member who would like to WFH after Covid should be preparing for a WRC case now. If you can genuinely WFH effectively it shouldn't be difficult to make a great case.

I'm specifically talking abut the public sector here because unlike the private sector, those in power will likely be blind to the benefits of WFH for the employer.

Private sector: Let's get the staff working from home so we can save on office costs

Public sector: Ah Jaysus we can't let the staff WFH, sure what will we do with an empty office then

fits

BrianD3 wrote: »

My experience has been that it is mostly senior people that are the problem by pressuring junior managers to get back to the office and get their staff back too. Or alternatively, pressuring the junior manager and then bypassing that manager and directly pressuring that manager's reports. Targeting the most junior people who are least likely to push back so they can then use the tactic of "well, everyone else is in the office" when tackling more "awkward" individuals.

This was case in my office. Not sure what story is now as my contract finished up. Was ridiculous. Four of us sharing an office and none needed to be there. I’m actually happy enough not to be working this month as I don’t want to leave the house for work.

Naos

BrianD3 wrote: »

Yes that's interesting, saw it on RTE this morning



The last bit will scare bad public service managers. What we have at the moment are managers who don't know what their staff do (as that would require work and engagement on the manager's part) but yet, are sure that the staff have been doing nothing since starting WFH. First sign of Covid improving, staff ordered back to the office. If manager asked for explanation, refer to contract or use the great catch all phrase of a bad manager "decisions are at the discretion of management".

Any staff member who would like to WFH after Covid should be preparing for a WRC case now. If you can genuinely WFH effectively it shouldn't be difficult to make a great case.

I'm specifically talking abut the public sector here because unlike the private sector, those in power will likely be blind to the benefits of WFH for the employer.

Private sector: Let's get the staff working from home so we can save on office costs

Public sector: Ah Jaysus we can't let the staff WFH, sure what will we do with an empty office then

I had a read of it this morning - is this legislation only going to be for Public Sector or will Private Sector be taken into account?
Shame if nothing for the Private sector as many are still insisting their employees return when this ends.

For those who have not read it: https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/work-from-home-laws-to-create-a-whole-new-world-for-employees-39970985.html

Naos

orlaxxx wrote: »

Working from home atm in my first post college job and I absolutely hate it. I’m between my parents house and a house share, neither are ideal when WFH. I feel totally isolated, disconnected from the company and I am learning nothing. Really hope we’ll back to the office come summer.

I get you're young, fresh out of college & without a place of your own, if I were in your position I would most likely be feeling the same.

When you're 10-15 years in, have your own place and are tired of the commute & wasted hours you may think differently.

I think the key here is not returning to the office but rather the option to return. There are a lot of people who are WFH who are very happy with it.

H8GHOTI

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

I see the govt is to announce new laws around the right to work from home and to disengage from work after hours.

Very happy to hear this. I like some of the wording around it too with regards employers having to justify presence in the office.

Seems slow though. They should have got the ball rolling on this middle of last year & “legislation to be in place by September” seems long way away. But better late than never and I guess if employers know this is on the horizon, they may not fight too hard to get people back to offices during the summer.

Be interesting to see how it plays out. Will WFH become normal? Will people be discriminated against for not being in the office? Will be good for many people if it goes as intended.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

BrianD3 wrote: »

Yes that's interesting, saw it on RTE this morning



The last bit will scare bad public service managers. What we have at the moment are managers who don't know what their staff do (as that would require work and engagement on the manager's part) but yet, are sure that the staff have been doing nothing since starting WFH. First sign of Covid improving, staff ordered back to the office. If manager asked for explanation, refer to contract or use the great catch all phrase of a bad manager "decisions are at the discretion of management".

Any staff member who would like to WFH after Covid should be preparing for a WRC case now. If you can genuinely WFH effectively it shouldn't be difficult to make a great case.

I'm specifically talking abut the public sector here because unlike the private sector, those in power will likely be blind to the benefits of WFH for the employer.

Private sector: Let's get the staff working from home so we can save on office costs

Public sector: Ah Jaysus we can't let the staff WFH, sure what will we do with an empty office then

H8GHOTI wrote: »

Very happy to hear this. I like some of the wording around it too with regards employers having to justify presence in the office.

Seems slow though. They should have got the ball rolling on this middle of last year & “legislation to be in place by September” seems long way away. But better late than never and I guess if employers know this is on the horizon, they may not fight too hard to get people back to offices during the summer.

Be interesting to see how it plays out. Will WFH become normal? Will people be discriminated against for not being in the office? Will be good for many people if it goes as intended.

Yes I hope the types that currently make a point of being seen around the office late in the evening and sneering at anyone who leaves at 5.30 for 'taking a half day' don't start making a point of being seen in the office daily and sneering at others for 'having a day off'.

That kind of attitude really isn't helpful.

beauf

BrianD3 wrote: »

....What we have at the moment are managers who don't know what their staff do (as that would require work and engagement on the manager's part) but yet, are sure that the staff have been doing nothing since starting WFH.....

I think everyplace has a few of those. They've had to up their game so can list stuff their team is doing in virtual meetings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4OvQIGDg4I&ab_channel=TVJ41262TVJ41262

Same with manager who do everything verbally so there is no record of anything and everything is done ad hoc. They are lost WFH.

https://workchronicles.com/

ThunbergsAreGo

orlaxxx wrote: »

Working from home atm in my first post college job and I absolutely hate it. I’m between my parents house and a house share, neither are ideal when WFH. I feel totally isolated, disconnected from the company and I am learning nothing. Really hope we’ll back to the office come summer.

That is not a great situation to be in and one I sympathise with.

Have you told someone in the company this?

JTMan

Naos wrote: »

I had a read of it this morning - is this legislation only going to be for Public Sector or will Private Sector be taken into account?
Shame if nothing for the Private sector as many are still insisting their employees return when this ends.

Does anyone have proper detail on this new legislation?

Can someone request to work from home 5 days a week?

I guess this applies to the private sector too?

Quin_Dub

JTMan wrote: »

Does anyone have proper detail on this new legislation?

Can someone request to work from home 5 days a week?

I guess this applies to the private sector too?

As I interpret what I've seen, An employee can request to work from home for as much of the week as they like.

The Employer then tells them what they think is viable - Some , All , None or whatever and must provide an explanation as to the reason for the decision made.

If the employee isn't happy with the explanation provided they can take it to the Workplace Complaints Authority for resolution.

Sultan of Bling

Quin_Dub wrote:

If the employee isn't happy with the explanation provided they can take it to the Workplace Complaints Authority for resolution.

End of promotion prospects if you do though, certainly where i work anyway.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

End of promotion prospects if you do though, certainly where i work anyway.

Surely it will also be illegal to discriminate against those who work from home. If an employee or union can demonstrate that a disproportionate number of promotions are going to those who attend the office every day, an organisation would have a case to answer.

Quin_Dub

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

End of promotion prospects if you do though, certainly where i work anyway.

I'd agree - Involving an outside 3rd party arbitrator isn't really a recipe for long term happiness or success.

By all means pursue an employer for dodgy/illegal practices etc. but don't expect to sue your boss , win and come back to everything being sunshine and lolipops.

Take them to court , get your win , then leave.

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

Surely it will also be illegal to discriminate against those who work from home. If an employee or union can demonstrate that a disproportionate number of promotions are going to those who attend the office every day, an organisation would have a case to answer.

Not the point being made I think - Talking about people that take their employer to Workplace Complaints Authority to get their WFH. Not going to be popular after that , in or out of the office.

BrianD3

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'd agree - Involving an outside 3rd party arbitrator isn't really a recipe for long term happiness or success.

By all means pursue an employer for dodgy/illegal practices etc. but don't expect to sue your boss , win and come back to everything being sunshine and lolipops.

Take them to court , get your win , then leave.

Not the point being made I think - Talking about people that take their employer to Workplace Complaints Authority to get their WFH. Not going to be popular after that , in or out of the office.

WFH legislation is less needed but also less useful for private sector employees IMO. The market and the profit incentive will see to it that employers will recognise any benefit of WFH (e.g. less office space needed). If they don't, their competitors will. If the employer deems that WFH does not suit, an employee bringing them to the WRC over it probably won't result in a great outcome for the employee - "managing out" and so on.

With the public sector it is almost the exact opposite. The taxpayer will pay for the office and for printing out 4 copies of emails "for the file". No incentive to make a change unless forced to by legislation. On the other hand, if someone kicks up about not being allowed WFH and threatens the WRC - managing out and other similar practices to get rid of people don't work in the public sector. Morale is generally very poor anyway and many who have been there for any length of time don't give a crap abut being popular or busting their arse for a promotion because it won't make any difference.

An Ri rua

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

End of promotion prospects if you do though, certainly where i work anyway.

The net benefits of gaining a WFH package would outweigh many a promotional package grossed up. Sure once you get into marginal tax, you need to be looking for ways to soak up that tax, not earn more! Use that marginal tax to buy yourself some time off and then diversify your income using that free time (not necessarily PAYE income, just income).

2lazytogetup

There will be no office employees in future. Companies will just tender for projects or tasks. You might offer to do it forv200 euro based on it will take you a day.
Some lad in Asia with lower cost of living will do for 50euro.

Or you could get loads of tenders offering to do each for 50euros each and you farm them out to some guys in Asia and pay them 10 euros.

AndrewJRenko

BrianD3 wrote: »

Yes that's interesting, saw it on RTE this morning



The last bit will scare bad public service managers. What we have at the moment are managers who don't know what their staff do (as that would require work and engagement on the manager's part) but yet, are sure that the staff have been doing nothing since starting WFH. First sign of Covid improving, staff ordered back to the office. If manager asked for explanation, refer to contract or use the great catch all phrase of a bad manager "decisions are at the discretion of management".

Any staff member who would like to WFH after Covid should be preparing for a WRC case now. If you can genuinely WFH effectively it shouldn't be difficult to make a great case.

I'm specifically talking abut the public sector here because unlike the private sector, those in power will likely be blind to the benefits of WFH for the employer.

Private sector: Let's get the staff working from home so we can save on office costs

Public sector: Ah Jaysus we can't let the staff WFH, sure what will we do with an empty office then

Wait till both public and private employers are faced with paying rent to employees for the space that they are currently getting for free. They might think again about those savings.

beauf

2lazytogetup wrote: »

There will be no office employees in future. Companies will just tender for projects or tasks. You might offer to do it forv200 euro based on it will take you a day.
Some lad in Asia with lower cost of living will do for 50euro.

Or you could get loads of tenders offering to do each for 50euros each and you farm them out to some guys in Asia and pay them 10 euros.

You can only do that with some projects. Others require local business and domain knowledge.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Wait till both public and private employers are faced with paying rent to employees for the space that they are currently getting for free. They might think again about those savings.

They will still save a fortune. Leasing city centre buildings, and then paying insurance, heating, electricity, cleaners and security staff plus ongoing maintenance costs big bucks.