Working From Home Megathread

2lazytogetup

Northernlily wrote: »

Enjoying the wfh and on flexi hours as working across multiple projects. I've always been introverted and disciplined so the wfh situation is not bothering me.

Rent renewal up shortly. Its a good opportunity to renegotiate lower rent but I think my heart is set on relocating to the South of Spain or the Canaries for 6 months to lower my living expenses whilst getting some decent weather. My plan is to increase savings for a deposit on a house in that time.

Great plan, but will your Irish employer allow you to relocate. I thought about moving to Spain. But if my work laptop breaks or stolen, how do I explain that I can't bring it in to IT dept and ask them to send another one to my address in spain

NIMAN

I too think there will be a good mix of office and WFH when all this is over.

I can easily see myself working a day or three and a couple out. Or whenever it might be handier to be in the house e.g. bad weather will just not bother going in.

Think the employer will definitely have a positive attitude to WFH too.

Cluedo Monopoly

Irish Gunner wrote: »

WFH since the start of all this.

So got my Gas, Electricity and Broadband bills from the suppliers as company not paying the daily rate.

So totalled these up and logged into Revenue and inserted the figures and got a tax deduction of a massive €100 then got my P 21 Balancing statement PAYE/USC statement of liability for the tax year.

I did not upload the utility bill statements.

So net amount is €40 just the price of half of my monthly BB bill

Not saving on commute as cycle in and Miss Gunner still using car as front line worker in hospital.

Can't spend money so saving bit but noticed supermarket prices increasing

After the Madness ends, and I'm not talking about suggs and Co, I will do a hybrid of WFH and office.

Where exactly do you enter the utility bill totals on Revenue.ie?

beauf

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

I couldn't bear the thought of having to get the laptop out again after dinner and plug into the world of work again. It'd be like years ago having to trudge upstairs to finish my homework when the rest of the family were settling down in front of the telly.

For many they are interrupted all day in the office and/or at home. They can only really get stuck in and concentrate uninterrupted in the evenings or the weekends. Also some people work in bursts, and not to an artificial 9-5 schedule.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

beauf wrote: »

For many they are interrupted all day in the office and/or at home. They can only really get stuck in and concentrate uninterrupted in the evenings or the weekends. Also some people work in bursts, and not to an artificial 9-5 schedule.

Everyone's difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QereR0CViMY&ab_channel=anyolite

I agree with that and am not in favour of strict 9 to 5 hours or having to sit pointlessly in the office until a certain time because you haven't enough 'hours on your clock'. I tend to work in concentrated bursts too but find come about 4 pm it takes me twice as long to get things done whereas half an hour, immediately after breakfast and before I get dressed, can be hugely productive.

I just got the impression the poster finds he's deliberately dragging his feet because he has no going home time and work therefore looms over his day and evening.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

By the way if you work in the office and can really only get any work done in the evenings and at weekends there's either something wrong with your modus operandus or your workplace is not very well run.

Quin_Dub

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Great plan, but will your Irish employer allow you to relocate. I thought about moving to Spain. But if my work laptop breaks or stolen, how do I explain that I can't bring it in to IT dept and ask them to send another one to my address in spain

Certainly my employer doesn't allow it.

Well - It's allowed , but only after a negotiation with them , you can't just up sticks and head away.

If you choose to relocate and work remotely then your contract may be renegotiated to reflect the cost base of your new location.

They've had WFH for years so the policies are pretty well established.

The general guideline is that you can work from home , but that you must be able to come to the office if requested , so you can't be too far away.

Not - "Be here in an hour!" or something , but "Can you be in tomorrow for a meeting" etc.

beauf

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

By the way if you work in the office and can really only get any work done in the evenings and at weekends there's either something wrong with your modus operandus or your workplace is not very well run.

I see so if I have to take a system offline, that every one uses I should do that during office hours, and disrupt everyone else.

Or maybe I get a notification a system has failed, on a Friday evening. I should wait till Monday morning and only fix it during office hours so everyone's waiting for it.

Maybe. I get a greater idea over the weekend. Instead of writing it up. I should wait till Monday and hope I remember it.

Maybe I'm an artist or musician and inspiration strikes. I guess that must only happen in office hours.

loyatemu

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Certainly my employer doesn't allow it.

Well - It's allowed , but only after a negotiation with them , you can't just up sticks and head away.

If you choose to relocate and work remotely then your contract may be renegotiated to reflect the cost base of your new location.

They've had WFH for years so the policies are pretty well established.

The general guideline is that you can work from home , but that you must be able to come to the office if requested , so you can't be too far away.

Not - "Be here in an hour!" or something , but "Can you be in tomorrow for a meeting" etc.

there are tax and legal implications of having employees permanently based in another country, most companies won't want that hassle unless they already have a division in that country.

loyatemu

loyatemu wrote: »

there are tax and legal implications of having employees permanently based in another country, most companies won't want that hassle unless they already have a division in that country.

This!

There are very big tax implications for both the employee and employer if the employee is based outside the country. Implications that are geared to make it not worth doing for either party

JoChervil

loyatemu wrote: »

there are tax and legal implications of having employees permanently based in another country, most companies won't want that hassle unless they already have a division in that country.

But in most countries you need to be 183 days in the country to pay taxes there. So if you spend 182 days in Spain, it should be OK as far as taxes are concerned.

I would just use my private laptop as a back up if my work one would stop working while abroad...

I think all this legislation including working partially in other countries will be solved in 2-3 years on UE level.

Tenzor07

Well, looks like things have finally caught up with those who abandoned ship to work aboard or back home...


https://www.independent.ie/business/digital-workers-who-locked-down-abroad-ordered-back-to-ireland-as-tech-titans-fear-tax-hit-39997093.html

If a company was to have staff permanently based in different countries that could trigger it being found to have a taxable presence in each,”

Cushtie

Currently doing two days WFH, three in office. Was full time WFH during first lockdown, then back full-time in office.
Enjoying it to be honest. Generally have a lot of people pulling and dragging off me when in the office, so no harm to let them fend for themselves for a while. Get loads more done on the two days I WFH.

Would like to stick to it when this is all over, maybe work two in office and three remotely. Saves about 90 mins a day on commute.

sporina

a mate of mine is working from home since last whenever.. but he went on hols outside the country a few months ago - stayed for 3 - worked away - said nothing and his employer was none the wiser.. he didn't ask if it was ok - and it never came up.. so happy days..
anyway he is home now.. wished he hadda stayed where he was - weather was better - but he was missing his family..
still doesn't know whether it wudda been cool or not with his employer

J Mysterio

Cushtie wrote: »

Currently doing two days WFH, three in office. Was full time WFH during first lockdown, then back full-time in office.
Enjoying it to be honest. Generally have a lot of people pulling and dragging off me when in the office, so no harm to let them fend for themselves for a while. Get loads more done on the two days I WFH.

Would like to stick to it when this is all over, maybe work two in office and three remotely. Saves about 90 mins a day on commute.

Why are you going to the office? What do you do that you need to go in?

c68zapdsm5i1ru

beauf wrote: »

Lots of things can be office based but not done in office hours.

If you have to take a system offline, that every one uses. Should you do that during office hours, and disrupt everyone else.
Or maybe you get a notification a system has failed, on a Friday evening. Should you wait till Monday morning and only fix it during office hours so everyone's waiting for it. Maybe you get a great idea over the weekend. Instead of writing it up. Should you wait till Monday and hope you remember it. Maybe you're an artist or musician and inspiration strikes. That just doesn't only happen in office hours.

9 to 5 works for many people. But it doesn't work for all.

That wasn't my point. I was answering a poster who said they have so many distractions during their official office hours they can only get work done at weekends and in the evenings. He implied he was in the office from 9 to 5 but getting nothing done.

beauf

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

That wasn't my point. I was answering a poster who said they have so many distractions during their official office hours they can only get work done at weekends and in the evenings. He implied he was in the office from 9 to 5 but getting nothing done.

There were quite a few comments. One was they preferred doubt stuff in the evenings and another they would hate working in the evenings..

That some morphed that into being badly organised. If you were badly organised you wouldn't get stuff done no matter what time if day it was.

That's is entirely different to choosing the hours that suit you best. That in itself is flexi time not really working from home. But at the moment WFH is something people have fallen into rather than planned.

beauf

Which means people can't micro manage like they could in an office environment. That in itself is huge change. They've been forced to charge those habits for over a year.

Cushtie

J Mysterio wrote: »

Why are you going to the office? What do you do that you need to go in?

There are some tasks that require presence on site. Myself and another person are sharing those tasks currently which means I do them on the days I'm in and other person does them when I'm not.(they are off the days I'm in)

FrStone

JoChervil wrote: »

But in most countries you need to be 183 days in the country to pay taxes there. So if you spend 182 days in Spain, it should be OK as far as taxes are concerned.

That's completely incorrect!

GazzaL

sporina wrote: »

a mate of mine is working from home since last whenever.. but he went on hols outside the country a few months ago - stayed for 3 - worked away - said nothing and his employer was none the wiser.. he didn't ask if it was ok - and it never came up.. so happy days..
anyway he is home now.. wished he hadda stayed where he was - weather was better - but he was missing his family..
still doesn't know whether it wudda been cool or not with his employer

I know a lot of people who have done the same. On the other hand, you have people who have been forced out of work by NPHET and the Government, stuck in the freezing cold and pissing rain. Supposedly we're all in this together.

sporina

GazzaL wrote: »

I know a lot of people who have done the same. On the other hand, you have people who have been forced out of work by NPHET and the Government, stuck in the freezing cold and pissing rain. Supposedly we're all in this together.

huh?

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Cushtie wrote: »

There are some tasks that require presence on site. Myself and another person are sharing those tasks currently which means I do them on the days I'm in and other person does them when I'm not.(they are off the days I'm in)

Unless it's essential work neither of you should be going on.

Nermal

FrStone wrote: »

That's completely incorrect!

Care to expand? Spain does follow the 183 day test for residency.

FrStone

Nermal wrote: »

Care to expand? Spain does follow the 183 day test for residency.

Of course I can expand.

The 183 day residency test is only part of it. Lets look at the Ireland - Spain Double Tax agreement, Article 15. In simple terms this states that if you are employed by an Irish company and are resident in Ireland but carry out your duties in Spain your employment income is taxable in Spain. If you spend 100 days in Spain this portion of your employment income is taxable in Spain. Your employer is obligated to withhold Spanish tax. This is why most MNCs are advising employees to return to Ireland or operating on the basis that they assume you are in Ireland. They can them claim to the relevant tax authorities that you were defrauding them by working from Spain...

It also has an affect from a corporate tax perspective, you working in Spain means you could easily create a permanent establishment, which means the profits you make could be taxable in Spain... So your employer runs into issues availing of the 12.5% Irish CT rate.

Hopefully, this will all get sorted, but at the moment you are taking a risk.

Cushtie

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

Unless it's essential work neither of you should be going on.

It is essential to the running of the company.

Nermal

FrStone wrote: »

Of course I can expand.

The 183 day residency test is only part of it. Lets look at the Ireland - Spain Double Tax agreement, Article 15. In simple terms this states that if you are employed by an Irish company and are resident in Ireland but carry out your duties in Spain your employment income is taxable in Spain. If you spend 100 days in Spain this portion of your employment income is taxable in Spain. Your employer is obligated to withhold Spanish tax.

Article 15 literally mentions the 183 day test within it. If it’s not exceeded, there’s no apportionment, you’re taxed in Ireland only.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Cushtie wrote: »

It is essential to the running of the company.

I don’t think that’s how it’s supposed to work.

AndrewJRenko

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Where exactly do you enter the utility bill totals on Revenue.ie?

Register for MyAccount on Revenue, then go through the 'Review your Tax' process for 2020. There are places to enter your WFH expenses, along with health expenses, other income and more.

Deleted User wrote: »

Truly bonkers stuff lol

Herein lies your issue. You are looking at this as being a massive benefit to the employer whereas the inverse is true, its a massive benefit to the employee first and foremost.

Why you are struggling with this is beyond me. Fair enough it might not suit you and its pissing you off having to do it, but go way with the silliness.

Any saving an employer makes on office space is likely to go towards additional investment (manpower, expansion, R&D etc).

To say you want the saving put in your pocket is fine.....if you plan on paying your employer for the privilege of sitting in an office again....crazy I know

Office rent costs are a major, major expense for many office-based enterprises. As businesses move to a substantial WFH situation, taking space in the houses and apartments of employees for business purposes, they will incur substantial savings over time, particularly as leases come up for renewal. It doesn't matter what the employer chooses to do with this money, whether reinvest, or return to shareholders or build up reserves, it is still a substantial saving.

Employees would be foolish to allow their employers to take all the benefits of these substantial savings by handing over a chunk of their property.

FrStone

Nermal wrote: »

Article 15 literally mentions the 183 day test within it. If it’s not exceeded, there’s no apportionment, you’re taxed in Ireland only.

It does, but it also mentions that the 183 rule doesn't apply if you create a permanent establishment.