Working From Home Megathread

c68zapdsm5i1ru

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Safest for who, or on what basis?
Is it the safest option if I don't have a decent chair, or a desk that I can fit my legs under?
Is it the safest option if I don't have a safe space to keep my paperwork or to carry out sensitive phone calls away from prying eyes and ears of housemates?
Is it the safest option if I can't afford to keep the heating on all day and am working at a temperature below HSA guidelines?

The decision as to 'what is safest' has been made on a unilateral basis, with no consideration of the other side of the story or the options available.

My desk is sitting there in my heated, lit, serviced office, with no-one else within 30m-40m of my desk btw.

The extraordinary and scary times started 11 months ago. Since then, many employers have adapted their buildings, their facilities, their processes to provide a safe working environment. We're not in the emergency phase now, and there's no excuse for not doing the work to provide a safe working environment.



Let's step back a minute. I have a contract of employment for a specific role that sets out my normal place of employment - my office. My employer doesn't get to decide to change either of these at random, just because they can't be arsed working out a safe procedure to let me back into the office. Why would my role NOT be capable of being done in the office when that's where it was being done for years? Staff who don't have the space at home or other facilities to allow WFH cannot be punished.

Safest for society to minimise the spread of covid of course. What other reason would there be.
Instructions from govt are that employees should only go into their workplace if their job is both essential and cannot be done from home. It's not meant to be your employers decision as to whether they want you to wfh or not at the moment.

Thats me

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is it the safest option if I don't have a decent chair, or a desk that I can fit my legs under?
Is it the safest option if I don't have a safe space to keep my paperwork or to carry out sensitive phone calls away from prying eyes and ears of housemates?
Is it the safest option if I can't afford to keep the heating on all day and am working at a temperature below HSA guidelines?

LOL, it is your own home office! You can buy a normal chair, change a house to another one having appropriate BER rating which would not require heating to be constantly turned on and which would have appropriate facilities allowing you to do your job away from prying eyes and ears of housemates. What is the problem?

AndrewJRenko

Thats me wrote: »

LOL, it is your own home office! You can buy a normal chair, change a house to another one having appropriate BER rating which would not require heating to be constantly turned on and which would have appropriate facilities allowing you to do your job away from prying eyes and ears of housemates. What is the problem?

It's not my home office though. It's my spare bedroom that has been taken over as an office without any agreement or discussion or compensation.


The problems are
1) The very considerable costs imposed on me to do all the above and more
2) The unilateral change to my working arrangements without any consultation, agreement or compensation.

AndrewJRenko

H8GHOTI wrote: »

Post covid restrictions? Is there talk of employers forcing people to WFH against their will?

That's the question -when is post-Covid? At best, it's probably 9 months away, nearly 2 years in total. At worst, if further variants emerge that are vaccine resistant, it could be never.

In Level 3, when the Government advice was
work from home where possible ", I was never asked "is this possible? ". I was forced to WFH against my will.

AndrewJRenko

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

Safest for society to minimise the spread of covid of course. What other reason would there be.
Instructions from govt are that employees should only go into their workplace if their job is both essential and cannot be done from home. It's not meant to be your employers decision as to whether they want you to wfh or not at the moment.

What risk of Covid spread arises from me being one of two or three people in an office designed for 100 people?

Thats me

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The problems are
1) The very considerable costs imposed on me to do all the above and more

Working remotely you are not tied to the main office location, so you could gain something by relocating to different area instead of bearing costs.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

2) The unilateral change to my working arrangements without any consultation, agreement or compensation.

During C19 pandemics it is government's decision (proper decision), employer must follow. When this C19 emergency will finish you should be able to return to office. But for what? To maintain "living" in the house which is requiring continuous heating - obviously nobody living in it since heating became a problem only with WFH. And you even having no comfortable chair there... Why you need a house at all? Ask employer - may be they could provide a tent in the corner of their car park for you

kippy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not my home office though. It's my spare bedroom that has been taken over as an office without any agreement or discussion or compensation.


The problems are
1) The very considerable costs imposed on me to do all the above and more
2) The unilateral change to my working arrangements without any consultation, agreement or compensation.

If you cannot facilitate work as it stands, the you have no option really but to go on the PUP.
People have to suck up various levels of "hardship" the past 10 months and probably for another 10 months in some way, shape or form. In the whole scheme of things having a job isn't one of those levels of hardship that would garner much sympathy.
It's either make the best of a bad situation or weigh up the available and viable alternatives.

AndrewJRenko

Thats me wrote: »

Working remotely you are not tied to the main office location, so you could gain something by relocating to different area instead of bearing costs.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've no intention of uprooting my family because my employer can't be arsed to manage a rota of staff who need to be in the office.

That's not how employment law works. Employers don't get to make unilateral changes to the terms of employment.

AndrewJRenko

kippy wrote: »

If you cannot facilitate work as it stands, the you have no option really but to go on the PUP.
People have to suck up various levels of "hardship" the past 10 months and probably for another 10 months in some way, shape or form. In the whole scheme of things having a job isn't one of those levels of hardship that would garner much sympathy.
It's either make the best of a bad situation or weigh up the available and viable alternatives.

If this was an essential outcome of the current situation, then you might be right.

But it's not essential. The only reason I can't go back to my desk is because my employer can't be arsed to manage a rota that will ensure I don't have others sitting around me.

Dublinandy3

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If this was an essential outcome of the current situation, then you might be right.

But it's not essential. The only reason I can't go back to my desk is because my employer can't be arsed to manage a rota that will ensure I don't have others sitting around me.

I hope your situation changes. To give you some hope. My employer asked everyone to work from home and then proceeded to give us 400 euro to help towards the bills, allowed us to expense a desk/chair etc, but, and this is the important but, for those that wanted or needed to for mental health or just preference reasons once they got the office covid safe (walking directions, spacing etc) they allowed people to work from the office. They just made you fill in forms and stuff so they could properly track. Only exception is during level 5, any other level and they make it possible. So don't give up hope, your employer may change their attitude.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What risk of Covid spread arises from me being one of two or three people in an office designed for 100 people?

It was a general restriction to prevent large numbers of people moving around, being on public transport, gathering in workplaces etc. That's how it works at the moment. Once the whole emergency situation is over I presume guidelines and legislation will ensue around remote working.

People are grieving loved ones who have died of this bloody thing, people are unable to visit seriously ill family members in hospital, people are losing their businesses and livelihoods, people haven't seen family abroad for over a year, people haven't been able to fly home for parents' funerals, a friend's mother had to sit in the car at her own husband's funeral because she had symptoms. If being asked to sit on an uncomfortable chair and wear a few extra layers for another few months to help stop this catastrophe is all the sacrifice someone's had to make they're bloody lucky.

ReahKelly

I am working from home since Mar-2020. All routine got upset. It seems I am working for the whole day and free for the whole day . Hope the COVID-19 will be ended soon.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Most people I know have actually saved a fortune in the last year. No commuting costs, no need for separate work clothes, no buying over priced sandwiches for lunch, more time to cook so less money spent on takeaways and microwave meals, less need for after school clubs (when schools were open) or paid activities etc. That would more than off set the cost of a plug in heater in the spare room for a few hours a day.

newuser99999

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

Most people I know have actually saved a fortune in the last year. No commuting costs, no need for separate work clothes, no buying over priced sandwiches for lunch, more time to cook so less money spent on takeaways and microwave meals, less need for after school clubs (when schools were open) or paid activities etc. That would more than off set the cost of a plug in heater in the spare room for a few hours a day.

Literally all of those things are your choice. We shouldn’t all be stuck working from home just because it’s a bit more convenient for you.

kippy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If this was an essential outcome of the current situation, then you might be right.

But it's not essential. The only reason I can't go back to my desk is because my employer can't be arsed to manage a rota that will ensure I don't have others sitting around me.

The only reason, isn't that. There's no one only reason but if I were to take a stab at it, it is the request by the government for people to work at home where possible.

Its not just about your employer facilitating their staff - it's about reducing the human interactions around work in general. Not just limited numbers in workspaces.
It's about the commutte, the lunchtimes, the breaks, and reducing the numbers of people that are out and about on a daily basis.

kippy

newuser99999 wrote: »

Literally all of those things are your choice. We shouldn’t all be stuck working from home just because it’s a bit more convenient for you.

Is anyone advocating "everyone" working from home "forever"?

c68zapdsm5i1ru

newuser99999 wrote: »

Literally all of those things are your choice. We shouldn’t all be stuck working from home just because it’s a bit more convenient for you.

A. They're not my 'choice'. We've been told by govt to work from home because we're not essential and our work can be done off site.

B. Where did I or any other poster say everyone should be stuck working from home.

C. Where did I say people should be working from home because it's more convenient for me?

antimatterx

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

Most people I know have actually saved a fortune in the last year. No commuting costs, no need for separate work clothes, no buying over priced sandwiches for lunch, more time to cook so less money spent on takeaways and microwave meals, less need for after school clubs (when schools were open) or paid activities etc. That would more than off set the cost of a plug in heater in the spare room for a few hours a day.

Yeah I saved a nice bit of money over the last year.

Clothes is a big one. I really cared about how I presented myself when I was in the office, I spent stupid money on clothes. Now I wear jeans that have a hole in the knee (usually I'd replace, but I'm going no where, so who cares), and hoodies I got for free. I generally wear a cheap €4 Dunnes t shirt while at home, as

I bought no clothes on sale this year, where as I usually would have. I'll have to buy a few bits when I go back as my wardrobe doesn't have much anymore, but for know I don't care.

I saved 30 a month on the gym as I cancelled it immediately. I bought a bench on Amazon (100), and had Dumbells at home, but I'm up a few hundred.

Food wise I probably spent a bit more. I use to take sandwhiches with me, but now I can actually cook a nice lunch. Worth it though.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've no intention of uprooting my family because my employer can't be arsed to manage a rota of staff who need to be in the office.

That's not how employment law works. Employers don't get to make unilateral changes to the terms of employment.

Need?

If you needed to be in the office, Andrew, you would be accommodated with access to the office.

There are staff members in my Dept currently attending the office as their role requires it. There is a procedure in place and no issue with allowing staff go into the office when it is considered essential to their role - i.e. "needed".

But the fact is your role does not require you to be in the office. You confirmed as much to me in this post on the other thread that your role was not one that was classed as essential and did not require a physical presence in an office.

You're issue has always been that you don't want to WFH. That it doesn't suit you. Fair enough. You don't like it. I think we all get that. And I can sympathise to a point, with walls closing in on you.

But its a temporary situation, and the situation is changing all the time. No one expected the situation to drag on as long as it has.

Thousands more have it a lot worse then you do, right now. They have no jobs. Can you understand why they would not be sympathetic to you right now?

The government had to react to an ever-changing situation and they made the decisions they did based on protecting the public health, in the midst of an ever evolving national and global public health emergency. There simply wasn't the time to sit down and go through each public servant's contract and discuss changing it with them.

You should also know that as a civil servant, you are just a number. They are not going to make exceptions for you, unless you can give them a BUSINESS case for why you need to be in the office. As for moving roles, as a CS you go where you're told, when you're told, and there is very little, if ever, any negotiation in that. EVERYTHING is based on the business needs of the Dept first, not your personal needs.

You'll get your spare bedroom back, when the government decides it safe to allow office work to resume. Until then you can claim tax credits for your utility costs. And honestly, you need to stop ranting about it, and get on with it as best you can, because its not going to change anytime soon.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Exactly. Wfh full time is obviously not for everyone. Some people don't have an appropriate environment at home, others would lead very isolated lives without the companionship of colleagues and some are at an age and stage of their career where they might need a lot of steering and mentorship as they adapt to the world of work.

At the moment we're in crisis mode and everyone just has to suck it up. Once the crisis is over all of the above needs to be taken into account when formulating new policies around how we work. It might be local hubs, or a hybrid model or all kinds of other options.

What shouldn't happen, however, is a return to a rigid working model that belongs to a time when traffic volumes were low, telephones were the only means of instant communication and stay at home mothers were the norm. A huge amount of water has flowed under the bridge since then, and that model is now compromising family life, ruining communities and damaging the environment.

We need to look at different ways of working, ones that don't involve tens of thousands of people travelling in and out of work at the same time, clogging up the roads and causing massive stress and inconvenience to each other.

H8GHOTI

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

...

We need to look at different ways of working, ones that don't involve tens of thousands of people travelling in and out of work at the same time, clogging up the roads and causing massive stress and inconvenience to each other.

Seems so pointless now in retrospect. Why did we ever do it?

It’s the number one benefit for me I think. With light traffic I could get to my office in about 10 minutes but often sat in the car for an hour.

AndrewJRenko

kippy wrote: »

The only reason, isn't that. There's no one only reason but if I were to take a stab at it, it is the request by the government for people to work at home where possible.

Its not just about your employer facilitating their staff - it's about reducing the human interactions around work in general. Not just limited numbers in workspaces.
It's about the commutte, the lunchtimes, the breaks, and reducing the numbers of people that are out and about on a daily basis.

That's the problem though. No one asked me if wfh was possible.

Antares35

newuser99999 wrote: »

Literally all of those things are your choice. We shouldn’t all be stuck working from home just because it’s a bit more convenient for you.

We are "stuck working from home" because of covid 19 surely??

AndrewJRenko

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

Most people I know have actually saved a fortune in the last year. No commuting costs, no need for separate work clothes, no buying over priced sandwiches for lunch, more time to cook so less money spent on takeaways and microwave meals, less need for after school clubs (when schools were open) or paid activities etc. That would more than off set the cost of a plug in heater in the spare room for a few hours a day.

No savings for me. I commute by bike, and I'm still using the bike for exercise. I bring my lunch in to work, so no lunch savings. Dress code is the same

Just extra costs of furniture, gas and electricity.

Antares35

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No savings for me. I commute by bike, and I'm still using the bike for exercise. I bring my lunch in to work, so no lunch savings. Dress code is the same

Just extra costs of furniture, gas and electricity.

Has your company not provided you with an allowance to buy office equipment? I managed to bring laptop and desktop home, already have desk and got my office chair couriered home too But OH for example his company gave them an allowance they could spend on ergonomic stuff needed and they could claim it back. Pretty bad on your employer if they aren't doing that as a minimum at this late stage.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No savings for me. I commute by bike, and I'm still using the bike for exercise. I bring my lunch in to work, so no lunch savings. Dress code is the same

Just extra costs of furniture, gas and electricity.

If you're working for the public service it would be highly unusual that you haven't been offered a suitable chair and desk by now. Why don't you contact Fórsa.

rostalof

Antares35 wrote: »

Has your company not provided you with an allowance to buy office equipment? I managed to bring laptop and desktop home, already have desk and got my office chair couriered home too But OH for example his company gave them an allowance they could spend on ergonomic stuff needed and they could claim it back. Pretty bad on your employer if they aren't doing that as a minimum at this late stage.

Are you joking? He's a civil servant. Despite the public's perception that the civil service waste money like nobody's business and all civil servants are on the gravy train, that isn't the case. No departments or CS organisations that I know of have provided allowances or funding for equipment, this is set in stone by order of DPER. A lot of departments won't let you remove equipment from the office either. You know that €3.20 that your employer can pay you tax free as a WFH daily allowance, they flat refuse to pay that too. As for the tax credit for working from home, I did a rough calculation a few weeks back and even if you had about €4,000 in household electricity, phone, heating and broadband bills for the year, you'd probably be able to claim between €50 to €60 back.

That being said, unfortunately Andrew, as others have pointed out, the government have stated that anybody whose work can be carried out remotely must work remotely. The civil service has to lead by example in this instance so it can't be an a la carte approach and if the job you do doesn't physically require you to be in the office, you must work from home. Yes, it's a hardship on some people but it's not forever and as civil servants it's the least we can do for our country in comparison to the risks taken and sacrifices made by so many others.

H8GHOTI

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's the problem though. No one asked me if wfh was possible.

Are your tasks possible from home? Are able to do your job without going to the office? That’s what they mean by possible. I’m guessing you know that though.

Government restriction isn’t work at home if you like it & have a suitable space.

rostalof

rostalof wrote: »

No departments or CS organisations that I know of have provided allowances or funding for equipment, this is set in stone by order of DPER. A lot of departments won't let you remove equipment from the office either.

My Department allowed us all to take our office chairs and monitors home, and also provided laptops to those who asked for them.

They are currently rolling out new laptops to every staff member - mine is being delivered this week. Desktops are being made obsolete - when we return to office based work we will be using laptops and docking stations in the office.

namloc1980

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's the question -when is post-Covid? At best, it's probably 9 months away, nearly 2 years in total. At worst, if further variants emerge that are vaccine resistant, it could be never.

In Level 3, when the Government advice was
work from home where possible ", I was never asked "is this possible? ". I was forced to WFH against my will.

You've spent a large amount of this thread complaining about being "forced" to work from home. If you're not happy why don't you look for new employment somewhere that will have you in the office every day of the week?

For the vast majority of people WFH has been a positive out of this whole Covid experience. We get you're not happy about it, no need to keep telling us all.