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Working From Home Megathread
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Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »WFH is the future and the future is bright. I like that I can get a job in any company even if they don't have an office in Galway.
Employer: WFH is the future and the future is bright. I like that I can offer a job in my company even if we don't have an office in Shanghai/Mumbai.
I believe WFO is stupid approach in many areas (WFO=WFromOffice). But how we will secure our workplaces when WFH will be widely accepted? For employer it will make not too much difference are you working from Donegal/ES/EU or IN/CN.. With few times salary difference should we look for cheap Chinese accommodation while it is still "cheap" (not that much cheaper than cheaper salaries there)?
Personally, for myself, i know i cannot be replaced by five Indians or Africans. It was tested
But i also understand when remote work will become mainstream nobody will calculate the price precisely... So i'm a bit unsure. 0 -
The only reason why we have GDPR is because employers are often imbeciles. I never heard about any massive personal information leak caused by somebody like AndrewJRenko shhoting their screen with mobile phone... Usually it is companies sharing info for money or having not clear enough policies.
But, in the other hand, nobody of us would like to become victim of AndrewJRenko who would share your rectovaginal examination in the twitter if he left with no control like he has while working in the open office.
That is not the only reason we have the GDPR. It's worrying that there are people who think it only applies in an employer/ employee setting.
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Personally, for myself, i know i cannot be replaced by five Indians or Africans. It was tested But i also understand when remote work will become mainstream nobody will calculate the price precisely... So i'm a bit unsure.
You're lucky.
I trained my replacement in China a few years ago, and he (+ silent team in the background) did just fine :-(
Recently I've been working with a smaller company who have just been purchased by a large UK co with branches across Europe. The parent just just set up a "Business Process" team in Latvia. I can def. see the writing on the wall there, too, even though the rest of the local team (who mostly haven't been in multi-national before) can't.0 -
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It is 21st century outside. If somebody is not capable to keep their family warm - he should be... I even cannot imagine who should be he.
5%-10% of people couldn't heat their homes from 2012 to 2017. In the 21st century.
Table 3.5a from the CSO.
Fuel poverty is a thing, and WFH makes it worse.0 -
Employer: WFH is the future and the future is bright. I like that I can offer a job in my company even if we don't have an office in Shanghai/Mumbai.
I believe WFO is stupid approach in many areas (WFO=WFromOffice). But how we will secure our workplaces when WFH will be widely accepted? For employer it will make not too much difference are you working from Donegal/ES/EU or IN/CN.. With few times salary difference should we look for cheap Chinese accommodation while it is still "cheap" (not that much cheaper than cheaper salaries there)?
Personally, for myself, i know i cannot be replaced by five Indians or Africans. It was tested But i also understand when remote work will become mainstream nobody will calculate the price precisely... So i'm a bit unsure.
Actually an awful lot of companies who tried this reversed the decision fairly quickly. Language barriers, cultural differences, lack of local knowledge, and time differences caused huge problems. This has been an option to companies for years, it’s not something new.0 -
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I find this very hard to believe. Feel free to share details of your Department in public or in private and I’ll submit an FOI request to confirm it either way. Here’s why I find it very hard to believe:Deleted User wrote: »No I don't know that. You know why? Because my Dept HAS made refunds to staff for the purchase of office equipment, including desks, where there was a case made for it. Granted, it was in limited circumstances, but it has happened, and it was for more then the €229 desk I linked you too.
Just as you should know, Andrew, you can make a formal request for anything and exceptions can ALWAYS be made at the discretion of senior managment. Given your claim of having an existing 20 year history of requiring a heightened desk, based on ergonomic assessments you say you've already had completed, which presumably are on record with your employer and backed up by medical evidence, then I sincerely do not believe it would be an issue.
Public sector expense guidelines are very clear and very strict. There is no general facility to approve payments to staff for purchases those staff have made. HR folks are also very clear on the dangers of ‘exceptions’. IF there is a facility to make payments to staff, there would need to be a clear policy on this, with published criteria. It would need to be open to all staff who meet the criteria, not just those who have a nice friendly PO prepared to sign off on it. I find it very hard to believe that any Finance officer or Payroll officer would be signing off on ‘exceptions’ like this.I don't know how many places you've worked in but if you come in earlier/go home later tis very easy to be in a massive office with very very few people around. It's very easy photo a screen no matter where you are. It's not as GDPR concern worth talking about. It's a pointless conversation. What stops this is not people around or technology, it's the resultant punishments that come down the line and/or adult responsibility.
Don’t know how many call centres you’ve worked in that deal with sensitive data, but the scenario of coming in early on your own doesn’t really happen. People come in on schedule, as do the supervisors.Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »Ah stop. If you really want to steal data at work using your phone camera, you could come in early or stay a little late.
The water hasn’t been tested, that’s correct – but wouldn’t this be an obvious constructive dismissal, where the employer would have changed the terms and conditions of employment in such an extreme way as to make the employment no longer tenable. Here’s the legal requirements for constructive dismissal;Re constructive dismissal, I doubt it Andrew. Then again, the water hasn't been tested this far, seeing as though we are in a pandemic and there's a lack of precedent. I suspect you would fail, but seeing as you're so certain you'd be successful (and given how clearly miserable you are with your current situation) why don't you pursue this and let us all know how you go. By the sounds of it you've little to lose anyway.
You are entitled to regard your contract as terminated if:
• Your employer's conduct amounts to an actual breach of the contract of employment or, although it falls short of such a breach, is serious enough to warrant your resignation
• Your employer's conduct shows that they no longer intend to be bound by one or more of the essential terms of the contract
• Your employer has acted unreasonably
My contract of employment specifies my workplace, with some provisions that this can be moved to another location. It doesn’t provide for a scenario where the employer no longer provides a workplace.
As noted repeatedly above, we were all OK to be flexible in an emergency. You can’t have a 12 month emergency with another 9 months to go best case. That’s not an emergency.People often make accomodation and other life decisions based on their jobs.
Unfortunately broadband is a major blocker of WFH and indeed economic activity in general, still in many parts of the country.
I dunno, I'd be fairly harsh on this. If the guy wants to keep the job, do what is required (I think moving accomodation is allowed), if moving isn't feasible for one reason or another, look at the other options available.
There's plenty of non WFH options available to those that aren't into WFH or working for companies that in normal times are 100 percent WFH. Like anything people are free to make up their minds, weighing up the pros and cons of all options on the table.
I wouldn't write off working for an entire sector or growing sector because of something you've seen/read on boards.ie to be completely frank.
If broadband is a requirement for the job, this should have been absolutely clear in the person spec and the contractual offer.Deleted User wrote: »Why would it be unfair dismissal?
The employer offered him a 10 month contract on the basis that the role was a remote one for now, which presumably he accepted.
Why should the problem with his broadband provider now become his employer's problem to resolve? And why should they now have to go against government advice to accommodate him?
He has been given his options. Resolve the issue with his broadband or move. Moving is not forbidden in Level 5.
The employer is not at fault here. Not only that, they can let someone go within a probation period. End of story.
It’s not common in the public sector. The office isn’t available now in level 5, and wasn’t available in Level 3.That's actually fairly common.
Employer should make the office available to the employee if they cannot work from home, which is what most employers have done since lockdown 1.
I'm sure being told you would be fired because you can't get internet (which you probably have to pay for yourself) would be a clean cut unfair dismissal case. Unless it was something the employee agreed to and stated in the contract - which is still **** for them, but should have checked their connection etc.
Easiest option would be to move tbh, which is perfectly possible during Level 5.
Moving house is far from easy for anybody, and is extremely difficult for those with family.
Which is why it is particularly important for employees to set expectations about being paid for the office space they are now being expected to provide to their employer.Man Vs ManUre wrote: »Salaries will be gradually reduced with these new casual ways of working. I already know of some companies that are looking to start charging their employees for providing this VDI technology to enable them to wfh.Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »My wife just got told yesterday that she can WFH until end of 2021 if she wants. That now makes 2 of us. Delighted to be honest. We both have a good routine going. I will probably arrange for 1-2 days a week in the office from Sept myself. Then again I may not.
Great to hear that it’s working for you. Can you comprehend that it’s not working for everyone?Employer: WFH is the future and the future is bright. I like that I can offer a job in my company even if we don't have an office in Shanghai/Mumbai.
I believe WFO is stupid approach in many areas (WFO=WFromOffice). But how we will secure our workplaces when WFH will be widely accepted? For employer it will make not too much difference are you working from Donegal/ES/EU or IN/CN.. With few times salary difference should we look for cheap Chinese accommodation while it is still "cheap" (not that much cheaper than cheaper salaries there)?
Personally, for myself, i know i cannot be replaced by five Indians or Africans. It was tested But i also understand when remote work will become mainstream nobody will calculate the price precisely... So i'm a bit unsure.
Why didn’t you bold the other bit of my post – the bit about having a safe working environment?Deleted User wrote: »And that is what this always comes back to. Your wants.
What you want is for your employer (the Government) to ignore their own guidelines and make a special exception for you so you can work in the office, despite them telling every other employer in the country to limit numbers attending workplaces to essential staff only.
And we've come full circle. Again.
No more childish or ridiculous than suggesting that employees are now expected to provide CCTV surveillance in their own homes. But you know that.No I'm suggesting it's childish and ridiculous to suggest someone provides a live video feed of themselves to a boards thread in order to prove a point. But you know that
Don’t really see any connection between the two tbh.If you can see the problems with this surely you can see the problems with companies renting rooms in employees homes of them to facilitate their remote work.
Fair point.Not exactly more recent cases say some type of basic fair procedure would still have to pertain
Yeah, it’s pretty hard to take such pictures in an open-plan office scenario, so it hasn’t been a big problem to date.The only reason why we have GDPR is because employers are often imbeciles. I never heard about any massive personal information leak caused by somebody like AndrewJRenko shhoting their screen with mobile phone... Usually it is companies sharing info for money or having not clear enough policies.0 -
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AndrewJRenko wrote: »5%-10% of people couldn't heat their homes from 2012 to 2017. In the 21st century.
Table 3.5a from the CSO.
Fuel poverty is a thing, and WFH makes it worse.
Ah now.....
Seriously - you've jumped the shark here.0 -
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Is Andrew not the one who invented the hypothetical scenario about CCTV surveillance, and is now accusing others of stating support for it? If mental gymnastics was an Olympic sport he'd be doing well
Eh no, you'll have to award the Olympic medal to others who came up with the idea of CCTV surveillance by employers in people's bedrooms and kitchens.
I'd rather employers set out any requirements for broadband or other facilities in employee homes up front in the recruitment process, rather than waiting for employees to leave their current employment and start a new job.Would you rather go without a job with a family to support, or go through the effort of moving house to keep said job? I know what I'd do, even if it's not ideal. But, in this case - finding a job is probably easier versus moving for a 10 month contract...
It just might work out better for employers and employees if they are clear up front.
If you want to set up a thread that discusses the pros and pros of WFH, I may not have much to contribute there. There may not be much value in such a thread either.Is it worth setting up an actual WFH megathread where we can actually discuss pros, cons, ideas etc rather than just indulging this self entitlement cràp, or would the same thing just happen again I wonder...
You don't think fuel poverty is a thing in Ireland in 2021?Ah now.....
Seriously - you've jumped the shark here.
It's extremely easy to take photos all right. It's extremely difficult to take photos without being seen by someone else.So you are talking specificly about call centres in all of this conversation?
The arguments and logical jumps you continue to come up with are funny to watch.
It's extremely EASY to take photos in an open plan office if you really want to, even in a call centre environment.
Can we move on from this nonsense?
I never said anything about having medical assessments and ergonomics reports on file. That's something that you came up with, so please don't try to hold me accountable for the twists of your imagination.Deleted User wrote: »You can find whatever you like hard to believe, Andrew. I find just about everything you post hard to believe.
I notice the one part of my post you chose not to quote was the part about exceptions, and if you have the medical assessments and ergonomics reports you claim you have on file with your employer.
Enjoy your Sunday, Im sorry I don't have time to indulge you today.
This might come as a surprise to you, but when some people take part in discussions like this, they think beyond their own personal situation and consider the needs of others, rather than taking a selfish 'I'm alright Jack so FU' attitude.Bigfatmichael wrote: »So really your just pissed off that you work in a call center earning minimum wage am I correct and expect your employer to fork out more money is that it?0 -
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