Working From Home Megathread

a_squirrelman

What on earth is this nonsensical focus on people taking pictures in the workplace?
Andrew is really looking for any teeny tiny thing to bash WFH with.
Most people are in work to get the job done and get the fook out of there at the end of the day.
We all have access to client data in our jobs but I've never had a thought of taking pictures of that data to do whatever secret spy stuff Andrew has in his head.
Jaysus.

AndrewJRenko

a_squirrelman wrote: »

What on earth is this nonsensical focus on people taking pictures in the workplace?
Andrew is really looking for any teeny tiny thing to bash WFH with.
Most people are in work to get the job done and get the fook out of there at the end of the day.
We all have access to client data in our jobs but I've never had a thought of taking pictures of that data to do whatever secret spy stuff Andrew has in his head.
Jaysus.

You'd be a great guy to put in charge of security in a shop.

"I've never thought about shoplifting, so why would we need any security guards? Ye can all go home early, because I trust all our staff and our customers."

Bigfatmichael

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've finally spotted an ads for some established WFH jobs at the same time. Have summarised below, with some interesting parts in bold.


Amazon : https://www.jobalert.ie/job/customer-service-associates-amazon-4

Here are the first four points under basic "qualifications":


Guaranteed 20 hours per week - but you have to be available for up to 40 (including nights/weeks) anytime between 6am to 12 am, Sunday to Saturday. (Including split shifts).

And they're paying $12 per hour.


eBay : https://www.jobalert.ie/job/work-from-home-and-customer-experience-teammates-roles-ebay

They say

Home Office Requirements



If you pass probation, then they will install a dedicated business internet connection. But until then





Shopify aren't quite so demanding (https://www.shopify.com/careers/bilingual-customer-service-specialist-fluent-in-french-remote-ireland-f90b6143). They only ask for


Yes, you read that right. You have to have a 2nd workspace available at a moments notice - presumably also with wired broadband.




These are entry-level jobs for sure, but it's safe to assume that similar requirements will sooner or later apply to long-term WFH too, once the details are thought through.



WFH is the future and the future is bright? Yeah, right.

Two jobs, Wow. The job spec from eBay you quoted has always been work from home even before the pandemic with the minimum broadband requirements.

Look for people fretting and worrying about working from home the office is obviously going to be open for people if they choose to use it when Covid is over. They may downsize their office once their lease is up but some sort of office is going to be there for people with poor broadband or prefer working from the office.

Where I work and a lot of companies are introducing a hybrid model where you are required in the office minimum two days a week.

Sorry to burst your bubble but working from home is the future and if companies don't introduce work from home and a hybrid model they are not going to keep their best staff.

A lot of people where I work have poor quality broadband a lot of them have got 4G sim cards, LTE Broadband and other services that are available for people with rural broadband.

Obviously in the west of Ireland it's going to be tougher for people to WFH.

If you have the right WFH setup using something like Azure then the quality of your broadband won't matter too much. Any decent company you should be able to dial into a meeting with a landline as well.

Antares35

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why are you so afraid of being monitored, as you said yourself.

Have you dropped your claim about 'medical assessments' now? I didn't say that I never had ergonomist assessments - another twist of your own imagination there.

The ergonomist assessments were done by ergonomists contracted to various employers over the years. They weren't medical assessments, they were ergonomist assessments. I don't have them on file. Maybe the various employers have them on file, but I doubt it.

As I asked, you mean. You're the one who brought it up (and keeps parping on about it). I never condoned it, simply asked why you are so afraid of it?

Antares35

Bigfatmichael wrote: »

Two jobs, Wow. The job spec from eBay you quoted has always been work from home even before the pandemic with the minimum broadband requirements.

Look for people fretting and worrying about working from home the office is obviously going to be open for people if they choose to use it when Covid is over. They may downsize their office once their lease is up but some sort of office is going to be there for people with poor broadband or prefer working from the office.

Where I work and a lot of companies are introducing a hybrid model where you are required in the office minimum two days a week.

Sorry to burst your bubble but working from home is the future and if companies don't introduce work from home and a hybrid model they are not going to keep their best staff.

A lot of people where I work have poor quality broadband a lot of them have not got 4G sim cards, LTE Broadband and other services that are available for people with rural broadband.

Obviously in the west of Ireland it's going to be tougher for people to WFH.

Exactly. Some of us already have jobs where our employer has committed to such a model.

Cluedo Monopoly

Bigfatmichael wrote: »

A lot of people where I work have poor quality broadband a lot of them have got 4G sim cards, LTE Broadband and other services that are available for people with rural broadband.

Obviously in the west of Ireland it's going to be tougher for people to WFH.

I live in a rural part of the west of Ireland and have 90.4 Mbps (download) and 28.8 Mbps (upload).
The rollout is moving quite quickly and there are many options as you pointed out.

I like that I can do job searches for companies all over Ireland now. Europe even.

A friend of mine in Galway got a new job in Dublin - super salary. They told him he can WFH for first 6 months and then they will review. He is confident that once he proves himself remotely there will be no issue with permanent WFH or maybe 1 day a month in the office. Happy days.

Bigfatmichael

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You'd be a great guy to put in charge of security in a shop.

"I've never thought about shoplifting, so why would we need any security guards? Ye can all go home early, because I trust all our staff and our customers."

Put on permanent ignore list as you really don't have a clue.

Bigfatmichael

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I live in a rural part of the west of Ireland and have 90.4 Mbps (download) and 28.8 Mbps (upload).

Nice!

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The ergonomist assessments were done by ergonomists contracted to various employers over the years. They weren't medical assessments, they were ergonomist assessments. I don't have them on file. Maybe the various employers have them on file, but I doubt it.

Ergonomics assessments are done as part of Health and Safety to prevent injury so they are all part and parcel of the same thing.

If anyone on this thread wins the olympic gold for mental gymnastics that would be you, Andrew.

a_squirrelman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You'd be a great guy to put in charge of security in a shop.

"I've never thought about shoplifting, so why would we need any security guards? Ye can all go home early, because I trust all our staff and our customers."

No. There IS an expectation of trust in our jobs. And there ARE people in charge of security. And if someone is under suspicion there are ways of dealing with it and investigations take place.
But you brought this nonsense into it, taking pictures and cctv in our homes BS, I've been working from home in some form since 2014 and haven't heard this sh1te before.

Bigfatmichael

Companies are more worried about online data breaches, not users taking pictures with their camera phones FFS.

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

Ergonomics assessments are done as part of Health and Safety to prevent injury so they are all part and parcel of the same thing.

If anyone on this thread wins the olympic gold for mental gymnastics that would be you, Andrew.

Ergonomists are not medics. An ergonomic assessment is not a medical assessment. Yes, it has an objective to prevent injury, but it is not a medical assessment. I'm not saying it is better or worse than a medical assessment, just that it is not a medical assessment.

Antares35 wrote: »

As I asked, you mean. You're the one who brought it up (and keeps parping on about it). I never condoned it, simply asked why you are so afraid of it?

For the second time in a couple of hours, I didn't bring it up. Another poster brought it up.

And at risk of going around in circles, why are you so afraid of posting your live feed here? It's the same answer to both questions really.

Bigfatmichael wrote: »

Put on permanent ignore list as you really don't have a clue.

Try reading up on the Security Mindset.

a_squirrelman wrote: »

No. There IS an expectation of trust in our jobs. And there ARE people in charge of security. And if someone is under suspicion there are ways of dealing with it and investigations take place.
But you brought this nonsense into it, taking pictures and cctv in our homes BS, I've been working from home in some form since 2014 and haven't heard this sh1te before.

I didn't bring up the question of CCTV in our homes, another poster did. I pointed out what a dystopian nightmare it would be to have employer surveillance in our homes.

If you are managing security, you try to avoid getting anywhere near the territory of people being under suspicion and under investigation. You put in place processes and procedures that don't allow things to get that far.

I'm simply pointing out that it is trivially easy for any employee to take photos of any confidential information appearing on their screen in a WFH setting. People keep telling me that there are ways of dealing with this, but no-one seems to have any specifics on the ways of dealing with this.

Antares35

At the risk of going around in circles at this stage...

Andrew, for the last time I am not posting a live feed of myself here, and if you make this utterly unreasonable request again I will simply report your post for being inappropriate and weird.

Cluedo Monopoly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm simply pointing out that it is trivially easy for any employee to take photos of any confidential information appearing on their screen in a WFH setting. People keep telling me that there are ways of dealing with this, but no-one seems to have any specifics on the ways of dealing with this.

Several people have pointed out how baseless your argument is and yet you keep waffling about it. I pity your colleagues.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116277771&postcount=1635

ShyMets

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Several people have pointed out how baseless your argument is and yet you keep waffling about it. I pity your colleagues.

I get the feeling Andrew might be making most of this up

Cluedo Monopoly

Antares35 wrote: »

At the risk of going around in circles at this stage...

Andrew, for the last time I am not posting a live feed of myself here, and if you make this utterly unreasonable request again I will simply report your post for being inappropriate and weird.

I think he is just looking for attention at this point. The WFH thing isn't working out for him.

AndrewJRenko

Antares35 wrote: »

At the risk of going around in circles at this stage...

Andrew, for the last time I am not posting a live feed of myself here, and if you make this utterly unreasonable request again I will simply report your post for being inappropriate and weird.

Just to be clear, I don't want to you post a live feed. I want you to think about the reasons why you won't post a live feed here, and apply those same reasons to an employer/employee scenario.

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Several people have pointed out how baseless your argument is and yet you keep waffling about it. I pity your colleagues.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116277771&postcount=1635

Several people have claimed this, that's right. But no-one has actually given any reason as to why this is not a very real security risk in a WFH environment.

ShyMets wrote: »

I get the feeling Andrew might be making most of this up

There is some truth in this. As explained above, some of the issues that I'm raising don't actually apply to me. They apply to other people.

Unlike most on this thread, I'm able to think beyond my own personal situation to understand how issues will affect other people.

Antares35

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just to be clear, I don't want to you post a live feed. I want you to think about the reasons why you won't post a live feed here, and apply those same reasons to an employer/employee scenario.



Several people have claimed this, that's right. But no-one has actually given any reason as to why this is not a very real security risk in a WFH environment.



There is some truth in this. As explained above, some of the issues that I'm raising don't actually apply to me. They apply to other people.

Unlike most on this thread, I'm able to think beyond my own personal situation to understand how issues will affect other people.

You aren't thinking about other people at all. You're only thinking about yourself. It's all been me, me, me since you started here. You don't care if someone else is happy that they no longer have to sit in traffic for the equivalent of a working day every week, or only see their partners or kids like ships in the night. And people like you, making noise about compensation and looking for rent from your own company, could potentially cause problems for everyone if employers wind up with a headache over ergonomic liability claims and fake GDPR hysterics.

kippy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've finally spotted an ads for some established WFH jobs at the same time. Have summarised below, with some interesting parts in bold.


Amazon : https://www.jobalert.ie/job/customer-service-associates-amazon-4

Here are the first four points under basic "qualifications":


Guaranteed 20 hours per week - but you have to be available for up to 40 (including nights/weeks) anytime between 6am to 12 am, Sunday to Saturday. (Including split shifts).

And they're paying $12 per hour.


eBay : https://www.jobalert.ie/job/work-from-home-and-customer-experience-teammates-roles-ebay

They say

Home Office Requirements



If you pass probation, then they will install a dedicated business internet connection. But until then





Shopify aren't quite so demanding (https://www.shopify.com/careers/bilingual-customer-service-specialist-fluent-in-french-remote-ireland-f90b6143). They only ask for


Yes, you read that right. You have to have a 2nd workspace available at a moments notice - presumably also with wired broadband.




These are entry-level jobs for sure, but it's safe to assume that similar requirements will sooner or later apply to long-term WFH too, once the details are thought through.



WFH is the future and the future is bright? Yeah, right.

Seriously, WFH has literally been around decades in certain sectors/organisations - it really is nothing new.
You are completely against WFH in all shapes and sizes by the looks of it and I doubt anything anyone says will change that.
Nothing of any "interest" in those job requirements - same as lots of job requirements that might mention, access to car/license, qualifications, skillsets or particular aspects, own tools, that might be required to do the job.

Not that anyones opinion matters too much in here *thankfully* but some people need to accept that WFH suits many other people and widespread use of it MIGHT be part of the solution to environmental change, better work life balance and rural regeneration.

Beasty

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Ah I see, live surveillance feeds are OK for other people,but not for you.

Give it a rest as otherwise you'll be threadbanned

jmlad2020

God that Andrew is an awful eejit.

WFH is here to stay.

AndrewJRenko

Antares35 wrote: »

You aren't thinking about other people at all. You're only thinking about yourself. It's all been me, me, me since you started here. You don't care if someone else is happy that they no longer have to sit in traffic for the equivalent of a working day every week, or only see their partners or kids like ships in the night. And people like you, making noise about compensation and looking for rent from your own company, could potentially cause problems for everyone if employers wind up with a headache over ergonomic liability claims and fake GDPR hysterics.

Well well well, the mask slips. It took a while but we've finally gotten here. So it's not a question of the rights or wrongs of the points I'm making. It's that I shouldn't be 'making noise' for sake of the majority of co-workers? I should be taking a musculo-skeletal injury for the team, apparently?

Classy stuff there.

But also misguided. I've no interest in restricting WFH from others. The scenario that an employer would restrict WFH for all simply because some expect the employer to provide a safe working environment is stretching credulity. If you're working for that kind of spiteful employer, then WFH policy is the least of your worries.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've finally spotted an ads for some established WFH jobs at the same time. Have summarised below, with some interesting parts in bold.


Amazon : https://www.jobalert.ie/job/customer-service-associates-amazon-4

Here are the first four points under basic "qualifications":


Guaranteed 20 hours per week - but you have to be available for up to 40 (including nights/weeks) anytime between 6am to 12 am, Sunday to Saturday. (Including split shifts).

And they're paying $12 per hour.


eBay : https://www.jobalert.ie/job/work-from-home-and-customer-experience-teammates-roles-ebay

They say

Home Office Requirements



If you pass probation, then they will install a dedicated business internet connection. But until then





Shopify aren't quite so demanding (https://www.shopify.com/careers/bilingual-customer-service-specialist-fluent-in-french-remote-ireland-f90b6143). They only ask for


Yes, you read that right. You have to have a 2nd workspace available at a moments notice - presumably also with wired broadband.




These are entry-level jobs for sure, but it's safe to assume that similar requirements will sooner or later apply to long-term WFH too, once the details are thought through.



WFH is the future and the future is bright? Yeah, right.

Interesting to see some employers being clear on their requirements. The Shopify one looks a bit like box-ticking, just to eliminate any excuses about 'me broadband is down'.

Setting out a specific broadband spec is a bit more complex than these jobs seem to think. An upload/download speed is a snapshot in time. It can vary considerably over the course of the day or the week, depending on what else is happening in the house or even in the neighbourhood.

Also, broadband speeds achieved over an uncontrolled local device can be very different to those achieved on a corporate device, with all the network checks and traffic inspection that goes on with corporate networks. I've regularly seen an order of magnitude difference in speeds - single figures upload/download on my corporate device and double figures on my personal devices.

So are eBay and Apple talking about speeds on a personal device or corporate network? And what if the speed varies across the day?

Mrs OBumble

kippy wrote: »

.
You are completely against WFH in all shapes and sizes by the looks of it

I have no idea where you got that from.

WFH has a place - for some jobs, in some places.

But it is not going to be as widespread as some would dream. And it has a substantial price for some employees.

kippy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Well well well, the mask slips. It took a while but we've finally gotten here. So it's not a question of the rights or wrongs of the points I'm making. It's that I shouldn't be 'making noise' for sake of the majority of co-workers? I should be taking a musculo-skeletal injury for the team, apparently?

Classy stuff there.

But also misguided. I've no interest in restricting WFH from others. The scenario that an employer would restrict WFH for all simply because some expect the employer to provide a safe working environment is stretching credulity. If you're working for that kind of spiteful employer, then WFH policy is the least of your worries.


Interesting to see some employers being clear on their requirements. The Shopify one looks a bit like box-ticking, just to eliminate any excuses about 'me broadband is down'.

Setting out a specific broadband spec is a bit more complex than these jobs seem to think. An upload/download speed is a snapshot in time. It can vary considerably over the course of the day or the week, depending on what else is happening in the house or even in the neighbourhood.

Also, broadband speeds achieved over an uncontrolled local device can be very different to those achieved on a corporate device, with all the network checks and traffic inspection that goes on with corporate networks. I've regularly seen an order of magnitude difference in speeds - single figures upload/download on my corporate device and double figures on my personal devices.

So are eBay and Apple talking about speeds on a personal device or corporate network? And what if the speed varies across the day?

Will ya stop. Seriously. Picking more holes in things.
They know and appreciate all of that. They are talking about the advertised broadband speeds and to be fair to them they generally don't need anywhere near that to properly do the job.
However this is why a good broadband infrastructre is key to rural development and development in general.

kippy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I have no idea where you got that from.

WFH has a place - for some jobs, in some places.

But it is not going to be as widespread as some would dream. And it has a substantial price for some employees.

I've gotten the impression from the various posts that I've seen form you since last March. I doubt, I am the only one who has gotten this impression.

I don't think it's gonna be widespread - like now, there are certain jobs that are not WFH friendly, there are certain companies who will not continue with it when the pandemic is over for one way or another, and it very obviously does not suit certain people, their mental state or their living conditions. But there is no doubt that there will be more flexibility in some workplaces that have managed to "work" their way through the last year.
Granted some organisations need to firm up policies, procedures and supports in place for workers and this will have to happen but one has to admit there are can be some serious benefits for the employee, the employer and the country if more of it were to happen.

Antares35

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Well well well, the mask slips. It took a while but we've finally gotten here. So it's not a question of the rights or wrongs of the points I'm making. It's that I shouldn't be 'making noise' for sake of the majority of co-workers? I should be taking a musculo-skeletal injury for the team, apparently?

Classy stuff there.

But also misguided. I've no interest in restricting WFH from others. The scenario that an employer would restrict WFH for all simply because some expect the employer to provide a safe working environment is stretching credulity. If you're working for that kind of spiteful employer, then WFH policy is the least of your worries.


Interesting to see some employers being clear on their requirements. The Shopify one looks a bit like box-ticking, just to eliminate any excuses about 'me broadband is down'.

Setting out a specific broadband spec is a bit more complex than these jobs seem to think. An upload/download speed is a snapshot in time. It can vary considerably over the course of the day or the week, depending on what else is happening in the house or even in the neighbourhood.

Also, broadband speeds achieved over an uncontrolled local device can be very different to those achieved on a corporate device, with all the network checks and traffic inspection that goes on with corporate networks. I've regularly seen an order of magnitude difference in speeds - single figures upload/download on my corporate device and double figures on my personal devices.

So are eBay and Apple talking about speeds on a personal device or corporate network? And what if the speed varies across the day?

What mask? What are you talking about? You think I have something to hide? I've been completely up front about the benefits I've experienced from WFH, unlike you, engaging in hyperbole all the time.

Bigfatmichael

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I have no idea where you got that from.

WFH has a place - for some jobs, in some places.

But it is not going to be as widespread as some would dream. And it has a substantial price for some employees.

It is for a lot of companies outside Dublin at the minute. They fear losing their staff to Dublin companies offering work from home and offering more money.

They have no choice but to implement or lose their good staff.

If they don't introduce it people will have no problem driving to Dublin for a day or two a week for the extra 15K a year or more.

In my company I know ofabout 20 who have jumped shipped to other companies in Dublin as there been promised WFH after the pandemic.

They announced then the hybrid model of been required in the office two days a week after the pandemic is over.

We are about 130KM from Dublin and another office is 180Km

Bigfatmichael

Bigfatmichael wrote: »

It is for a lot of companies outside Dublin at the minute. They fear losing their staff to Dublin companies offering work from home and offering more money.

They have no choice but to implement or lose their good staff.

If they don't introduce it people will have no problem driving to Dublin for a day or two a week for the extra 15K a year or more.

In my company I know ofabout 20 who have jumped shipped to other companies in Dublin as there been promised WFH after the pandemic.

They announced then the hybrid model of been required in the office two days a week after the pandemic is over.

We are about 130KM from Dublin and another office is 180Km

Exactly this. Now that everyone has had a taste of WFH, its going to be nigh on impossible to convince some people to go back to working 5 days a week in the office "just because".

If you are in a role that needs you to be onsite 5 days, grand, go onsite 5 days. If you don't then go flexi or remote. Personally I'll never work in the office again and will happily change employers in the future if this becomes an issue.

There are a huge amount of roles that do not require being onsite and with todays tech, collaboration is no longer an issue.

Just last week I had a 2 hr brainstorming session with 12 others over Teams and it worked perfectly fine with zero issues. We used all the same tools as we would have used in person, albeit in a virtual sense (whiteboard app etc).

Bigfatmichael

Bigfatmichael wrote: »

It is for a lot of companies outside Dublin at the minute. They fear losing their staff to Dublin companies offering work from home and offering more money.

They have no choice but to implement or lose their good staff.

If they don't introduce it people will have no problem driving to Dublin for a day or two a week for the extra 15K a year or more.

In my company I know ofabout 20 who have jumped shipped to other companies in Dublin as there been promised WFH after the pandemic.

They announced then the hybrid model of been required in the office two days a week after the pandemic is over.

We are about 130KM from Dublin and another office is 180Km

A work colleague of mine has recently bought a house in their home county for the very reasons you give. A big factor was also that they could afford a very nice 4-bed house down home, but nothing even close to it in Dublin. They didn't want to live in Dublin forever, anyway.

I asked if they was concerned that they may not be allowed to work from home full time after the pandemic and they simply shrugged and said, "if I'm not allowed WFH at least 4 days a week, I'll move to a job where I can".

This is a younger person, under 30, college grad and now a couple of years work experience under their belt. They'd have no problem finding another job.

Employers who don't move with the times now, will lose good staff like these.

WhiteMemento9

Deleted User wrote: »

Employers who don't move with the times now, will lose good staff like these.

Exactly, some companies are going to leverage it to attract staff. It will forevermore now be at least a conversation in interviews where people start asking what is your WFH policy. The market will end up dictating what happens in certain sectors for WFH as companies who refuse to get on board will be unable to attract and retain staff if other companies they are competing with do offer the option which inevitably means they will also ultimately have to get on the same page.