Working From Home Megathread

smellyoldboot

Antares35 wrote: »

Something I've noticed too since WFH started is there's less place for the bull****ters to hide. There's someone I work with (loosely) and she can never give a straight answer, everything has to be convoluted either because she doesn't know what she's talking about and is trying to fudge it, or she wants to make something simple sound very complicated so she looks more important or busy.

So often now if I email her asking to clarify X or provide Y, I'll get a response, "em, can I call you about this instead" and the call is guaranteed to be a thirty minute ordeal which culminates in me having to ask someone else anyway. Don't know why she can't just email back and say "I don't know". I tend to avoid her now wherever possible because she just confuses things. In the office, there was no escape!

Yeah have noticed this too. Basically anyone who was competent at their work in the first place is likely thriving now with the lack of pointless office talk, neverending questions from the bluffer's and hide and seek champions who need the blur of the crowd to hide their failings.

WFH has individualised everyones work output to a large degree now and when you've to answer directly for your standard of work, meeting targets etc. Hiding places are hard to find. It's one of my favourite things about it tbh.

Bigfatmichael

The complete opposite for me. A few in the office have now turned into politicians with pointless bull crap talking in circles spewing from their mouths which is agitating me to say the least.

lisasimpson

kippy wrote: »

This really goes without saying.
In an "ideal" world, with WFH having policies in place etc the organisation SHOULD provide equipment, including chair and desk - docking station and/or PC/Monitor of adequate site.
However in "my" world, I have provided myself with a decent desk and chair as well as a big monitor that I can use for WFH for pretty much any organisation I work for as opposed to moving kit in and out of the house whem moving jobs etc (not that I move jobs much anymore)
However, the employer SHOULD have to provide the proper equipment should it be required.
WFH with kids around (depending on ages, who else is there etc) isn't really feasible and the current situation isn't really reflective of an ideal WFH environment.
Again, there are many people that want to WFH some portion of the week and that can WFH, there are many more that would like to WFH a portion of the week longterm but their home environment does not suit for one reason or another - these people will probably modify their home environment to do this soon, if they haven't already. If they cannot for one reason or another their options are limited.
There are others who don't ever want to WFH for one reason or another, thats fine too!

I don't mind it, I am well set up for it, but I'd prefer to be in the work environment a few days a week due to the nature of what I do and the ability to talk to people at work etc etc.

This is where office hubs will grow around the country. Ideal for those with young kids and not a proper set up at home. Rent a desk for the days your not commuting and have advantage of a bit of social interaction. Its not seeing people is really getting to me working from home

kippy

lisasimpson wrote: »

This is where office hubs will grow around the country. Ideal for those with young kids and not a proper set up at home. Rent a desk for the days your not commuting and have advantage of a bit of social interaction. Its not seeing people is really getting to me working from home

Yeah, and a lot of places do seem to be embracing this on a community inititave basis and commercially. It will be interesting to see who picks up the rental cost or how that works out.
I agree though, it is the social interaction that many people miss (they may not realise it)

Thats me

kippy wrote: »

I agree though, it is the social interaction that many people miss (they may not realise it)

What i really hate is situations when you trying to concentrate on your work and people around having continuous social interactions. Just enjoying my last 11 months of WFH, sleeping better and love my work again.

Antares35

Thats me wrote: »

What i really hate is situations when you trying to concentrate on your work and people around having continuous social interactions. Just enjoying my last 11 months of WFH, sleeping better and love my work again.

I find this too, especially for work where you need uninterrupted concentration. I didn't realise before how much time is lost being interrupted, and then having to find back where you were. I'd probably like to go back to one day a week in the office, and try to load up necessary meetings to that day where possible, as the only thing I find with WFH is the meetings on zoom have kind of lost something.

strandroad

Antares35 wrote: »

I find this too, especially for work where you need uninterrupted concentration. I didn't realise before how much time is lost being interrupted, and then having to find back where you were. I'd probably like to go back to one day a week in the office, and try to load up necessary meetings to that day where possible, as the only thing I find with WFH is the meetings on zoom have kind of lost something.

I'm the same. I couldn't believe how much better I could focus without that low level disruption around you. Even simple things like someone asking for directions or watering plants around you, I didn't realise how much they cost you in focus lost.

I would also like to have one day a week in the office and that's purely to keep and develop good connections to my local colleagues and have some fun, for pure work I'd be better off working all remote.

kippy

Thats me wrote: »

What i really hate is situations when you trying to concentrate on your work and people around having continuous social interactions. Just enjoying my last 11 months of WFH, sleeping better and love my work again.

Good for you - there's a place in the world for that - as I've stated above.

namloc1980

lisasimpson wrote: »

This is where office hubs will grow around the country. Ideal for those with young kids and not a proper set up at home. Rent a desk for the days your not commuting and have advantage of a bit of social interaction. Its not seeing people is really getting to me working from home

I'm not sure how this would work in reality.
- Who pays the rent? You or your employer and what other potential issues does this bring with it.
- Security concerns of being in a office with a bunch of other people from different companies etc.

Cluedo Monopoly

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Yeah have noticed this too. Basically anyone who was competent at their work in the first place is likely thriving now with the lack of pointless office talk, neverending questions from the bluffer's and hide and seek champions who need the blur of the crowd to hide their failings.

WFH has individualised everyones work output to a large degree now and when you've to answer directly for your standard of work, meeting targets etc. Hiding places are hard to find. It's one of my favourite things about it tbh.

We have data showing significant productivity improvements since last March. It's undeniable and there is little evidence of excessive overtime. The question is whether it's sustainable but so far so good.

kippy

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'm not sure how this would work in reality.
- Who pays the rent? You or your employer and what other potential issues does this bring with it.
- Security concerns of being in a office with a bunch of other people from different companies etc.

The rent is the thing - It will depend a lot on the individual and organisation.
The security concerns, not so much, depending on the type of work being done.
By the way, this is nothing new, it has been happening pre covid.

scrips

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'm not sure how this would work in reality.
- Who pays the rent? You or your employer and what other potential issues does this bring with it.
- Security concerns of being in a office with a bunch of other people from different companies etc.

I've often thought it would suit me to work partially from an office hub as my set-up at home is far from ideal, not to mention the numerous domestic distractions of WFH. I could make a good case that my employer should pay the rent as I am saving them money on several fronts by working from home, although they generally automatically say 'no' to anything new that is suggested. Unfortunately however, capacity at our local hub has reduced due to covid restrictions so it is harder to book. And one security concern would be making confidential work-related phone calls (would have to go out and sit in the car).

On another note - how ARE parents coping on a day-to-day basis with the combination of WFH and home schooling? I am finding it an incredibly difficult juggle... I go from one child to the next, to my desk - it's five minutes with each child and then two minutes at my own laptop before a child needs help with something (or needs motivating, or just wants to see what I am doing). I just don't have the head space to focus on work. The half-term break was a pleasant relief as I didn't have to oversee schoolwork, and whereas in the past I'd have taken Annual Leave from work, it now seemed like an easier time to get my own work done compared to the past 6 weeks... it's all relative. WFH will surely change the way employees take their Annual Leave - no longer will it always be necessary to take the day off if your child is home from school sick, or even when they are on school holidays.

Mrs OBumble

strandroad wrote: »

I would also like to have one day a week in the office and that's purely to keep and develop good connections to my local colleagues and have some fun, for pure work I'd be better off working all remote.

You realise that for this to work, your local colleagues would all have to agree to be in the office on the same say? Do you think that's likely?

Some interesting thoughts here, too; https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/think-that-working-from-home-is-here-to-stay-think-again-1.4484553


Paying for shared office-hub access may seem logical to you, but I doubt many employers will see it that way when several dozen/hundred/thousand employees ask for it. From their perspective they are already providing you with an office hub to use, why pay for a second one.

AndrewJRenko

Thats me wrote: »

Hi Andrew, the CSO said to me:

"An analysis by socio-demographic characteristics showed that those most at risk of poverty in 2019 were those individuals who were not at work due to illness or disability (37.5%) and individuals who were unemployed (35.4%). "


Are you not at work or unemployed?

How you think WFH would affect that part of "those individuals who were not at work due to illness or disability" who not at work because they cannot be in the office, but could work from home?

Do you think WFH decrease chances of eployment of these individuals who were unemployed because they have no employment options in reach?

In this thread i see example of Galway man got employed in Dublin, and by the way of Eir Broadband reaching rural areas it will be more and more people getting opportunity to obtain remote job.

I think WFH should decrease poverty and therefore let more people to have warm and safe environment... If there will be enough business willing to keep all of us busy..

All the benefits you mention above are only available to those who have the resources to enable working from home - those who have physical space, those who live in stable, safe environments, those who can fund the desk, chair, and heating necessary.

I came across this interesting example of someone for whom WFH 'wrecked their back' resulting in what looks like chronic pain, possibly for the rest of their life.

https://twitter.com/gordon_struth/status/1362419345972953088

Antares35 wrote: »

Wow a survey of 928 people

If we take the total working population as 2 million (very generous, and ignores those from whom WFH isn't possible - manufacturing, distribution, retail, healthcare), a survey size of 928 at confidence level of 95% gives you a 3% margin of error - similar to most major political surveys from RedC, Irish Times etc.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/mp/margin-of-error-calculator/

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

Exactly, Chadwicks who have absolutely no reason to carry out such a survey without having a vested interest. I would be very suspicious of that survey, particularly as their results seem to contradict the outcome of many other surveys. I would be particularly interested to know if participants genuinely represented a cross selection of those wfh.

What other surveys does it contradict?

Mr.S wrote: »

Food for thought though, I'd say lots of people who have the ability to move will be considering their new home with an office in mind for WFH.

Will people be spending extra money on rent or mortgage to subsidise their employers?

smellyoldboot wrote: »

WFH has individualised everyones work output to a large degree now and when you've to answer directly for your standard of work, meeting targets etc. Hiding places are hard to find. It's one of my favourite things about it tbh.

This might work in environments of pure individualised work. In environments that are highly dependent on team work, the loss of formal and particularly informal communications is a big problem.

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You realise that for this to work, your local colleagues would all have to agree to be in the office on the same say? Do you think that's likely?

Some interesting thoughts here, too; https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/think-that-working-from-home-is-here-to-stay-think-again-1.4484553


Paying for shared office-hub access may seem logical to you, but I doubt many employers will see it that way when several dozen/hundred/thousand employees ask for it. From their perspective they are already providing you with an office hub to use, why pay for a second one.

Or people could rotate their days as some have done in my office in the past when there was a booking system. It doesn't have to be a fixed day.

scrips

Most won't ask to work at a hub, I would say. Happens it would suit my particular circumstances to use a hub for one or two days a week. I don't even have a phone signal or a printer at home.

strandroad

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You realise that for this to work, your local colleagues would all have to agree to be in the office on the same say? Do you think that's likely?

The way I'm hearing it's going to go in several companies I have ties to is that teams or entire business areas will agree on and pick their regular days to be in the office, to ensure that the building is used in a balanced way throughout the week. Some meet on Mondays, some on Tuesdays etc., then working areas are reused. If you want to make sure facilities work for everyone and there is enough seats, bathrooms, lift capacity etc on the day you can't have completely random patterns of usage, you need to rotate groups in and out.

This is in no way shocking in technology companies by the way, laptops are standard and on/off-site security policies are already in place because of business travel or WFH already offered.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Obviously different set ups will suit different people and different types of work. The main thing is that we shouldn’t have to go back to the default setting being 5 days in the office with fixed hours and long commutes, regardless of what type of work you do.

It has been demonstrated that this set up is not necessary for many jobs, and is causing needless stress, expense and time demands on many people.

Thats me

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

All the benefits you mention above are only available to those who have the resources to enable working from home - those who have physical space, those who live in stable, safe environments, those who can fund the desk, chair, and heating necessary.

Andrew, i do rent my house. I do pay for these resources. If you want to have ability to WFH comfortably, you have to invest something into your own comfort. If you do not want WFH then what we are discussing here?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I came across this interesting example of someone for whom WFH 'wrecked their back' resulting in what looks like chronic pain, possibly for the rest of their life.

https://twitter.com/gordon_struth/status/1362419345972953088

I only used my dining chair for about 6-8 weeks before I got an office chair delivered, it wrecked my back and 10 months later it's no better.

Sorry, i do not trust in these stories. Before comfortable office chairs become a usual attribute of the office workplace i had years and years and years of using normal "dining" chairs. I'm still alive and having no problems with my back. Guessing the problem is not in the chair.

AndrewJRenko

Thats me wrote: »

Andrew, i do rent my house. I do pay for these resources. If you want to have ability to WFH comfortably, you have to invest something into your own comfort. If you do not want WFH then what we are discussing here?

Sorry, but why do I 'have to invest' to cover costs that would previously have been covered by my employer? I'm my case, I'm discussing the refusal of my employer (and many others) to allow anything other than WFH, even when the risks arising are negligible if managed properly.

Thats me wrote: »

Sorry, i do not trust in these stories. Before comfortable office chairs become a usual attribute of the office workplace i had years and years and years of using normal "dining" chairs. I'm still alive and having no problems with my back. Guessing the problem is not in the chair.

I'm coming close to 40 years of office work and I've never had anything other than a proper office chair, even in times with small, scrappy companies.

There is a reason why employers provide ergonomic assessments and decent furniture. They don't do it for a laugh. They do it because sitting for eight hours a day in a bad chair at a bad desk will cause harm.

Mr.S wrote: »

If they can afford it, yes. Are you saying people never upsize? I don't see it as subsidising their employer.

Likewise, people who preferred living in the city, might look further afield and pay cheaper for a larger place.

You can see the trend already, look on Daft - 2 bed apartments now being letted as 1 bed + offices.

Of course people upsize or downsize, but are we really now saying there is an expectation that most office employees will need to provide a spare room at their own expense all for the privilege of working?

An Ri rua

Thats me wrote: »

Andrew, i do rent my house. I do pay for these resources. If you want to have ability to WFH comfortably, you have to invest something into your own comfort. If you do not want WFH then what we are discussing here?




Sorry, i do not trust in these stories. Before comfortable office chairs become a usual attribute of the office workplace i had years and years and years of using normal "dining" chairs. I'm still alive and having no problems with my back. Guessing the problem is not in the chair.

That's not true at all. Pure trolling to be honest. If that was the case, organisations wouldn't bother with ergonomics assessments. Stop talking rubbish.

Thats me

An Ri rua wrote: »

That's not true at all. Pure trolling to be honest. If that was the case, organisations wouldn't bother with ergonomics assessments. Stop talking rubbish.

Can you please be more specific on what is not true? People were using normal wooden chairs for ages, do you deny this fact? Or you would deny the fact people do invest into their comfort on their own? For example you can approach any office and met many people there who have bought very expensive car for comfortable travelling to the office and back. Price of the office chair is incomparable to it.

Also, in general, i do not see how furniture can be provided by workplace at all. I do install that furniture which suits my needs and fits to the room i'm using for work. I do not think employer would provide me a furniture which would fit better. Also if it would be provided by employer i would have return it when changing job, obtain new furniture from new employer.. Not sure why would i like all this mess

Thats me

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Sorry, but why do I 'have to invest' to cover costs that would previously have been covered by my employer? I'm my case, I'm discussing the refusal of my employer (and many others) to allow anything other than WFH, even when the risks arising are negligible if managed properly.

In your case your employer was prohibited by law to allow you entering office and it was left to them to decide what they will provide to you. They decided to provide nothing, ok - this is their right. You still have options - to struggle for whole year or may be more or to make yourself more comfortable by investing into your own comfort. You have chosen to struggle. It is your choice, I do respect it - please still struggling

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm coming close to 40 years of office work and I've never had anything other than a proper office chair, even in times with small, scrappy companies.

Your mileage may vary. I'm only explaining why i laughing hearing these sad stories.

lisasimpson

namloc1980 wrote: »

I'm not sure how this would work in reality.
- Who pays the rent? You or your employer and what other potential issues does this bring with it.
- Security concerns of being in a office with a bunch of other people from different companies etc.

The few that we have in Ireland are v successful and were in high demand before covid esp by those working in creative sectors like graphic designers etc. Remember reading about them before covid was a thing. Think was it one is wexford was going to expand such was the demand for it. Sneem has one too
It would be the individual themselves and not your employer that would pay. Some start ups use them too while getting on their feet a bit like local enterprise centres Often have individual pods etc not exactly open plan like modern offices.
Clearly you would have to get the approval of your employer if you are going to use such space..
In my local town the council have applied for permission to develop such a hub. They would be similar to facilities offered by the likes of Regus and WeWorks. They are handy options for those living in areas with poor broadband etc

scrips

'It would be the individual themselves and not your employer that would pay.'

Not necessarily, depends on your employer. It's a kind of half-way house between office working and WFH.

'Clearly you would have to get the approval of your employer if you are going to use such space.'

Yes if you are expecting them to pay the rent for the hub space, but if you are already expected to work from home and prepared to pay the hub rent yourself, why would you even tell them?

lisasimpson

scrips wrote: »

'It would be the individual themselves and not your employer that would pay.'

Not necessarily, depends on your employer. It's a kind of half-way house between office working and WFH.

'Clearly you would have to get the approval of your employer if you are going to use such space.'

Yes if you are expecting them to pay the rent for the hub space, but if you are already expected to work from home and prepared to pay the hub rent yourself, why would you even tell them?

It could be a requirement from your company. Pre covid there was small scale work from home with a previous employers. Had to get. Put on the approval form there was a section about company checking set up. Certain companies may have extremely sensitive infor that they dont want access to outside companies building

BrianD3

I see the passport office is effectively closed and the reason being given is that staff "do not have access to private, personal data when working outside of our secure offices and so cannot process passport applications remotely". The media are reporting this now but IIRC it was also closed several weeks ago when I was thinking about getting a passport for my mother.

Many public service bodies and depts would deal with private personal data yet seem to be able to function while many staff work from home.

More detail needed on why the passport office has to close, would it be any of the following

• Does the office have antiquated work practices and is it heavily reliant on paper files which would result in valid privacy concerns related to staff bringing files home with them?
• Or are things done electronically but like some other public service bodies, have they failed to provide staff with the necessary equipment (work laptops with VPN setup) to do their work securely?
• Or AndrewJRenko type whatifs about conversations being overheard at home, people taking photos of screens etc?

My fear now is that this passport office story will be seized on by neurotic public service managers resistant to change and who have been dead set against WFH from the start of the pandemic. Maybe the manoeuvring has started already with the passport office getting in their retaliation in advance of any right to request WFH being introduced.

Mrs OBumble

BrianD3 wrote: »

Many public service bodies and depts would deal with private personal data yet seem to be able to function while many staff work from home.

Can you imagine any reasons why an office issuing identity documents might need a higher level of security than most?

Eric Cartman

scrips wrote: »

'It would be the individual themselves and not your employer that would pay.'

Not necessarily, depends on your employer. It's a kind of half-way house between office working and WFH.

'Clearly you would have to get the approval of your employer if you are going to use such space.'

Yes if you are expecting them to pay the rent for the hub space, but if you are already expected to work from home and prepared to pay the hub rent yourself, why would you even tell them?

Your IT department should be informed to run a security assessment on the network in a co working space to ensure security is up to snuff, many of the smaller amateur hour players in the space have wide open networks rife with issues

Mrs OBumble

Thats me wrote: »

In your case your employer was prohibited by law to allow you entering office and it was left to them to decide what they will provide to you.

Eh? What law was this?

There is a recommendation/request to work from home if at all possible.