Working From Home Megathread

Thats me

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Eh? What law was this?

Health Act 1947 and newer Health (Preservation and Protection and other
Emergency Measures in the Public Interest) Act 2020 and Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (Covid-19) (No. 10) Regulations 2020

AndrewJRenko

BrianD3 wrote: »

I see the passport office is effectively closed and the reason being given is that staff "do not have access to private, personal data when working outside of our secure offices and so cannot process passport applications remotely". The media are reporting this now but IIRC it was also closed several weeks ago when I was thinking about getting a passport for my mother.

Many public service bodies and depts would deal with private personal data yet seem to be able to function while many staff work from home.

Which bodies and deps are have staff dealing with private, personal data by staff working at home?

Thats me wrote: »

Your mileage may vary. I'm only explaining why i laughing hearing these sad stories.

I'm struggling to see the humour in work related musculo-skeletal injuries. Will you be ROFLMAOing when we find ourselves facing large numbers of claims for workplace injuries because employers took shortcuts on workplace safety, like the army deafness claims?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Your IT department should be informed to run a security assessment on the network in a co working space to ensure security is up to snuff, many of the smaller amateur hour players in the space have wide open networks rife with issues

This is a good point, though many of the security risks go beyond the IT systems, and relate to risks like being overheard or leaving paperwork unattended while you go to the loo.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

BrianD3 wrote: »

I see the passport office is effectively closed and the reason being given is that staff "do not have access to private, personal data when working outside of our secure offices and so cannot process passport applications remotely". The media are reporting this now but IIRC it was also closed several weeks ago when I was thinking about getting a passport for my mother.

Many public service bodies and depts would deal with private personal data yet seem to be able to function while many staff work from home.

More detail needed on why the passport office has to close, would it be any of the following

• Does the office have antiquated work practices and is it heavily reliant on paper files which would result in valid privacy concerns related to staff bringing files home with them?
• Or are things done electronically but like some other public service bodies, have they failed to provide staff with the necessary equipment (work laptops with VPN setup) to do their work securely?
• Or AndrewJRenko type whatifs about conversations being overheard at home, people taking photos of screens etc?

My fear now is that this passport office story will be seized on by neurotic public service managers resistant to change and who have been dead set against WFH from the start of the pandemic. Maybe the manoeuvring has started already with the passport office getting in their retaliation in advance of any right to request WFH being introduced.

It was suggested in one newspaper that it might be partly to make travel abroad diff. I presume passports needed for compassionate reasons would be prioritised and issued.

Antares35

Shawn Sparse Sunstroke wrote: »

It was suggested in one newspaper that it might be partly to make travel abroad diff. I presume passports needed for compassionate reasons would be prioritised and issued.

You'd think that, and they state there is a one day turnaround for emergency applications, but our experience with an emergency application was a nightmare that culminated in us missing our flight to see a sick relative when it was needed. For a child's application, you still have to send your own passport and birth certificate in by snail mail, and the emergency process doesn't begin until that envelope is opened by them. In our case, it took a month to open the envelope because, in their own words, "there's a mountain of envelopes here and we've no idea where yours is". So, essentially, their in office security was such that they couldn't even tell me where my own passport was except "in a big pile". A month later, they contacted us to say the photo, which had been approved by their own computer software, was unsuitable.

And this is the kind of shíteology you get when they're in the office.

AndrewJRenko

Antares35 wrote: »

You'd think that, and they state there is a one day turnaround for emergency applications, but our experience with an emergency application was a nightmare that culminated in us missing our flight to see a sick relative when it was needed. For a child's application, you still have to send your own passport and birth certificate in by snail mail, and the emergency process doesn't begin until that envelope is opened by them. In our case, it took a month to open the envelope because, in their own words, "there's a mountain of envelopes here and we've no idea where yours is". So, essentially, their in office security was such that they couldn't even tell me where my own passport was except "in a big pile". A month later, they contacted us to say the photo, which had been approved by their own computer software, was unsuitable.

And this is the kind of shíteology you get when they're in the office.

We got an emergency passport renewal for a child same day about 15 years ago. I was amazed to see 40 or 50 other eejits along with ourselves in the room to collect emergency passports that day.

In fairness, the Passport Online service has been widely praised.

https://twitter.com/SJPSalisbury/status/1273742298774491136
https://twitter.com/HughGillanders/status/1270737736971030528
https://twitter.com/michael_hoare/status/1236980102023524352
https://twitter.com/CDB_90/status/1236976567751974913

Here's some good background on their response to Covid.

Thats me

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm struggling to see the humour in work related musculo-skeletal injuries. Will you be ROFLMAOing when we find ourselves facing large numbers of claims for workplace injuries because employers took shortcuts on workplace safety, like the army deafness claims?

I laughing not because somebody got injured, i laughing when somebody telling such stories, because this is really laughable argument. OK, someone has injured himself sitting on their own chair in their own kitchen. This happens, in any population there is small percent of idiots who could make harm to themselves while others would not. This has no relation to working conditions - they would make harm to themselves any way.

Also, i have a couple questions to you, Andrew.

Which equipment you are using to write posts to the boards? I see you have 13K+ posts written - this is quite good amount of work done! Haven't you got any injuries while writing all of these posts having no safe place with decent chair and proper adjustable desks designed to be height adjustable?

Second question. Earlier you have referred HSA guidance from which it seem employer must identify required equipment and agree it with employee, can record it in the checklist and may work desk and adjustable chair. How your conversation with employer is going?

Antares35

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We got an emergency passport renewal for a child same day about 15 years ago. I was amazed to see 40 or 50 other eejits along with ourselves in the room to collect emergency passports that day.

In fairness, the Passport Online service has been widely praised.

https://twitter.com/SJPSalisbury/status/1273742298774491136
https://twitter.com/HughGillanders/status/1270737736971030528
https://twitter.com/michael_hoare/status/1236980102023524352
https://twitter.com/CDB_90/status/1236976567751974913

Here's some good background on their response to Covid.

What is it about needing an emergency passport that makes one an eejit exactly?

None of your links relate to first time applications for a child, but of course if you had a good experience over a decade ago then they must be superb.

Mrs OBumble

Antares35 wrote: »

What is it about needing an emergency passport that makes one an eejit exactly?

.

The part about not bothering to apply for one before it is urgently needed.

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The part about not bothering to apply for one before it is urgently needed.

Unfortunately Mrs O Bumble, they don't process them while your child is still in-utero. In addition, we did not receive advance notification of the terminal illness of my fiance's mother. Your compassion is commendable.

kippy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The part about not bothering to apply for one before it is urgently needed.

There's plenty reasons why people end up requiring a passport in an emergency.
There's also plenty reasons people abuse the situation also unfortunately.


I can see why the passport office would have issues in a WFH environment but don't know enough about their technology or business processes to pick out what areas cannot WFH or why they cannot process applications, or do part of the work outside of the office.

One would think that the demand for passports for a travel related reason is gone through the floor but there are other reasons people need them too.

Mrs OBumble

Antares35 wrote: »

Unfortunately Mrs O Bumble, they don't process them while your child is still in-utero. In addition, we did not receive advance notification of the terminal illness of my fiance's mother. Your compassion is commendable.

Doctors don't allow newborns to fly, either.

plodder

kippy wrote: »

There's plenty reasons why people end up requiring a passport in an emergency.
There's also plenty reasons people abuse the situation also unfortunately.


I can see why the passport office would have issues in a WFH environment but don't know enough about their technology or business processes to pick out what areas cannot WFH or why they cannot process applications, or do part of the work outside of the office.

I don't see why they can't WFH

One would think that the demand for passports for a travel related reason is gone through the floor but there are other reasons people need them too.

Someone was writing about this in one of the Sunday papers last week, wondering if the shutdown is more about giving people another reason not to think about foreign travel.

And that could be another thing that might bite the government in the backside when the time comes to re-open and everyone whose passport couldn't be renewed during the lockdown is stuck at home because of the inevitable backlog there will be.

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Doctors don't allow newborns to fly, either.

Wrong.

Also, first time applications were taking up to six months last year, but don't let facts get in your way.

kippy

plodder wrote: »

I don't see why they can't WFH

Someone was writing about this in one of the Sunday papers last week, wondering if the shutdown is more about giving people another reason not to think about foreign travel.

And that could be another thing that might bite the government in the backside when the time comes to re-open and everyone whose passport couldn't be renewed during the lockdown is stuck at home because of the inevitable backlog there will be.

Without knowing the specifics it's very difficult to make that call.
For example, maybe some staff can work from home, maybe others cannot but they can work in a reduced staff environment. You'd need to know the processes involved.

TBF, there are easier thing to do to stop people travelling rather than making passports difficult to get.

Antares35

plodder wrote: »

I don't see why they can't WFH


And that could be another thing that might bite the government in the backside when the time comes to re-open and everyone whose passport couldn't be renewed during the lockdown is stuck at home because of the inevitable backlog there will be.

If people are sending in documents such as birth certificates, and their own passports etc then presumably they would need at least core staff in the office processing receipt of these in order to progress applications, which might then be processed in a WFH environment. But, I can't imagine how it would work if they are completely remote. Maybe for renewals it might be ok?

Imagine finally being allowed to have a sun holiday and not being able to travel!

kippy

Antares35 wrote: »

If people are sending in documents such as birth certificates, and their own passports etc then presumably they would need at least core staff in the office processing receipt of these in order to progress applications, which might then be processed in a WFH environment. But, I can't imagine how it would work if they are completely remote. Maybe for renewals it might be ok?

Imagine finally being allowed to have a sun holiday and not being able to travel!

I'd say costs and associated ability to pay for it would be the bigger issue!

plodder

Antares35 wrote: »

If people are sending in documents such as birth certificates, and their own passports etc then presumably they would need at least core staff in the office processing receipt of these in order to progress applications, which might then be processed in a WFH environment. But, I can't imagine how it would work if they are completely remote. Maybe for renewals it might be ok?

Last time I renewed mine I used an automated photo kiosk in Tesco that was able to check the photo was the right specifications (after several attempts) and it sends the photo directly to the passport office and it should be ready to go. It's a very good system in fairness.

Imagine finally being allowed to have a sun holiday and not being able to travel!

Might seem clever now stopping people, but it sure as hell won't then

Antares35

plodder wrote: »

Last time I renewed mine I used an automated photo kiosk in Tesco that was able to check the photo was the right specifications (after several attempts) and it sends the photo directly to the passport office and it should be ready to go. It's a very good system in fairness.

Might seem clever now stopping people, but it sure as hell won't then

Yes I remember renewing mine a few years back and was surprised with how easy the whole thing was, and how quickly I had the new passport. Seems to be first time applications that are a headache at the moment, making sure you don't traffic your own child and all that

AndrewJRenko

Thats me wrote: »

I laughing not because somebody got injured, i laughing when somebody telling such stories, because this is really laughable argument. OK, someone has injured himself sitting on their own chair in their own kitchen. This happens, in any population there is small percent of idiots who could make harm to themselves while others would not. This has no relation to working conditions - they would make harm to themselves any way.

Tell me, why do you think employers invest in ergonomic assessments, office-quality chairs and desks, as opposed to sticking their staff on a dining room chair at a folding table? Do you think employers spend that money just for the laugh?

Thats me wrote: »

Which equipment you are using to write posts to the boards? I see you have 13K+ posts written - this is quite good amount of work done! Haven't you got any injuries while writing all of these posts having no safe place with decent chair and proper adjustable desks designed to be height adjustable?

Do I really need to explain the difference between a half hour or hour of activity here or there, at leisure, with no pressure or commitment and eight hours a day of work five days a week? It's not quite a comparable scenario.

Thats me wrote: »

Second question. Earlier you have referred HSA guidance from which it seem employer must identify required equipment and agree it with employee, can record it in the checklist and may work desk and adjustable chair. How your conversation with employer is going?

Conversation isn't progressing at all since I first raised these issues last summer. There is some talk of a virtual ergonomic assessment coming down the line, but no commitment about actioning the outputs of such an assessment.

On the broader issue, my brother-in-law got a note from his home insurer BOI/RSA today telling him that his policy may now be invalid if he is working from home and this wasn't declared with the initial policy, so he needs to declare his circumstances so they can renegotiate his premium.

Bigfatmichael

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Tell me, why do you think employers invest in ergonomic assessments, office-quality chairs and desks, as opposed to sticking their staff on a dining room chair at a folding table? Do you think employers spend that money just for the laugh?



Do I really need to explain the difference between a half hour or hour of activity here or there, at leisure, with no pressure or commitment and eight hours a day of work five days a week? It's not quite a comparable scenario.


Conversation isn't progressing at all since I first raised these issues last summer. There is some talk of a virtual ergonomic assessment coming down the line, but no commitment about actioning the outputs of such an assessment.

On the broader issue, my brother-in-law got a note from his home insurer BOI/RSA today telling him that his policy may now be invalid if he is working from home and this wasn't declared with the initial policy, so he needs to declare his circumstances so they can renegotiate his premium.

Look government advised work from home again today, we'll all get our jabs before next Winter and you'll be happy out back in the office then.

You can't expect your employer to wipe your arse as well.

Antares35

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

On the broader issue, my brother-in-law got a note from his home insurer BOI/RSA today telling him that his policy may now be invalid if he is working from home and this wasn't declared with the initial policy, so he needs to declare his circumstances so they can renegotiate his premium.

That's interesting. I wonder how many potential claims could be invalid.

silverharp

we always declared it cos my wife works from home, but they didnt seem to care so long as it was just a home office, I mentioned myself in Dec when we renew but again no interest on their part

Quin_Dub

silverharp wrote: »

we always declared it cos my wife works from home, but they didnt seem to care so long as it was just a home office, I mentioned myself in Dec when we renew but again no interest on their part

Absolutely - I've always worked from home and the insurers don't care.

They differentiate between "working from home" and "running a business from home"

For a home insurance policy , working from home is no different than having a stay at home parent or whatever.

However if you are running a business , having clients visit , storing goods/raw materials etc. in the house that's a different thing entirely from their perspective.

AndrewJRenko

Bigfatmichael wrote: »

Look government advised work from home again today, we'll all get our jabs before next Winter and you'll be happy out back in the office then.

You can't expect your employer to wipe your arse as well.

That's not a bad Plan A. If everything goes according to plan, we could possibly be back in the office in Q3, which wouldn't be the end of the world.

But that is no means certain at this stage. If we're hit with a vaccine resistant variant, that could all go out the window.

I'm not going to spend another winter with cold feet because I can't afford to run the heating all day.

Antares35 wrote: »

That's interesting. I wonder how many potential claims could be invalid.

Yes, it could invalidate claims, and it could leave employees facing another additional cost for working from home. Will employers be paying for any increase in premium?

I recall ticking the box that the house was occupied when switching insurer this year, which I assumed would lead to a reduction in premium rather than an increase.

ShyMets

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's not a bad Plan A. If everything goes according to plan, we could possibly be back in the office in Q3, which wouldn't be the end of the world.

But that is no means certain at this stage. If we're hit with a vaccine resistant variant, that could all go out the window.

I'm not going to spend another winter with cold feet because I can't afford to run the heating all day.



Yes, it could invalidate claims, and it could leave employees facing another additional cost for working from home. Will employers be paying for any increase in premium?

I recall ticking the box that the house was occupied when switching insurer this year, which I assumed would lead to a reduction in premium rather than an increase.

I'm genuinely baffled. Why do you need to have the heat on all day. We're not living in Siberia.

We dont tend to get very cold Winter's and when we do get cold snaps they dont last very long.

Up until last year I lived in a three bedroom terrace. In Winter the most we would have the heat on was for 3/4 hours a day and the house was never cold

loyatemu

ShyMets wrote: »

I'm genuinely baffled. Why do you need to have the heat on all day. We're not living in Siberia.

We dont tend to get very cold Winter's and when we do get cold snaps they dont last very long.

Up until last year I lived in a three bedroom terrace. In Winter the most we would have the heat on was for 3/4 hours a day and the house was never cold

some houses are well insulated, many are not. A terrace will be warmer by default as 2 sides are attached to other buildings so there's less exposed wall.

plodder

ShyMets wrote: »

I'm genuinely baffled. Why do you need to have the heat on all day. We're not living in Siberia.

We dont tend to get very cold Winter's and when we do get cold snaps they dont last very long.

Up until last year I lived in a three bedroom terrace. In Winter the most we would have the heat on was for 3/4 hours a day and the house was never cold

You'd notice if they switched the heating off in your workplace in Winter.

doc22

plodder wrote: »

You'd notice if they switched the heating off in your workplace in Winter.

Heating off- involve union - go home...

ELM327

doc22 wrote: »

Heating off- involve union - go home...

And put the heating on at home!

Mrs OBumble

An interesting perspective from the head of Goldman Sachs: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/goldman-sachs-ceo-working-from-home-is-an-aberration-11614251629


The short version is "suck it up old people, training the next generation of workers is more important than helping you balance your lifestyles: we need face to face for that training to be effective".