Working From Home Megathread

sterz

Mind me asking why you went back? I'm hearing about people in our place going back and I don't understand why. I'm not sure how their circumstances have changed since last year or the last few months.

Naos

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Interesting findings from the CS survey, looks like about 25% of staff are not happy to WFH, particularly POs and COs. I'm guessing that the COs may well be down to difficulties with space and facilities at home or in rented accomodation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-D1kNFm9eE

"Three-quarters of staff indicated that they would like to continue to access remote working in the future if given the choice"

Unless I'm missing something, did you take the above quote to mean "about 25% of staff are not happy with WFH"?

AndrewJRenko

Naos wrote: »

"Three-quarters of staff indicated that they would like to continue to access remote working in the future if given the choice"

Unless I'm missing something, did you take the above quote to mean "about 25% of staff are not happy with WFH"?

Yep.

Patsy167

Some fairly eye-opening stats reported in this survey - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/04/work-survey-pwc-automation-jobs/

Almost 40% of workers think their job will be obsolete within five years, according to PwC’s Hopes and fears 2021 report.
Six in 10 are concerned about machines taking over their jobs.
Humans and machines are predicted to spend an equal amount of time on tasks at work by 2025, according to the World Economic Forum.

While not everyone has been able to work from home in the pandemic, the survey found that almost three-quarters of workers who can work remotely want a mix of remote and in-person working. Only 9% said they’d like to go back to their traditional work environment full-time.

PwC expects the offices of tomorrow to be more focused on spaces where teams come together to brainstorm, collaborate, and problem-solve.

hots

Patsy167 wrote: »

S
Humans and machines are predicted to spend an equal amount of time on tasks at work by 2025, according to the World Economic Forum.[/I]

:rolleyes: what does that even mean.

Patsy167

Patsy167 wrote: »

Almost 40% of workers think their job will be obsolete within five years, according to PwC’s Hopes and fears 2021 report.
Six in 10 are concerned about machines taking over their jobs.
Humans and machines are predicted to spend an equal amount of time on tasks at work by 2025, according to the World Economic Forum.

Since machines were invented this fear has existed in some shape or form. While it may come true for some roles its never going to be the case that a majority of roles will go this way. In addition, there are always new industries springing up that didn't exist before, think renewable energies, app development, IT in its various forms and so on.

Patsy167 wrote: »

While not everyone has been able to work from home in the pandemic, the survey found that almost three-quarters of workers who can work remotely want a mix of remote and in-person working. Only 9% said they’d like to go back to their traditional work environment full-time.

There will always be some that it doesn't suit, thats never going to change, and there will always be some roles which is it not suitable for, but for everyone else....

Patsy167 wrote: »

PwC expects the offices of tomorrow to be more focused on spaces where teams come together to brainstorm, collaborate, and problem-solve.

This is a part of my daily role and has been completed remotely for the last 12 months. You don't need to be face-to-face to brainstorm, collaborate, and problem-solve, you just need to adjust to doing it differently

ednwireland

Popped into my inbox today

From today, employees will have the right to ‘disconnect’ from work, outside of their normal working hours.

The government has published a new Code of Practice which will safeguard work-life balance by allowing employees to ‘switch off’ from their jobs outside of their normal working hours.

The new code of practice includes:



The right of an employee to not have to routinely perform work outside their normal working hours.
The right not to be penalised for refusing to attend to work matters outside of normal working hours.
The duty to respect another person’s right to disconnect (for example, by not routinely emailing or calling outside normal working hours).

not from our own HR i hasten to add !

plodder

^ I wonder how workable that will be - particularly the last bit " (for example, by not routinely emailing or calling outside normal working hours)". In a typical MNC emails are routinely sent 24x7 because people are located anywhere in the world and you can't expect everyone to know where you are located.

Nobody expects such emails to be answered immediately, but that's already covered by the previous item in the list. So, does the code really expect others to not even send the emails in the first place?

I suspect this will be a bonanza for employment lawyers and people taking constructive dismissal cases.

plodder

plodder wrote: »

^ I wonder how workable that will be - particularly the last bit " (for example, by not routinely emailing or calling outside normal working hours)". In a typical MNC emails are routinely sent 24x7 because people are located anywhere in the world and you can't expect everyone to know where you are located.

Nobody expects such emails to be answered immediately, but that's already covered by the previous item in the list. So, does the code really expect others to not even send the emails in the first place?

I suspect this will be a bonanza for employment lawyers and people taking constructive dismissal cases.

I know at my place I am WFH, have the laptop, do my regular hours and also have everything on my phone.

The thing is though, on my phone, for all the work apps, there are no notifications by default. Outlook, Teams, Yammer, etc, nothing shows a notification. I can only see new emails/messages/assignments etc if I specifically open a work app.

So basically I have 24 hr access if I need it, but work does not have 24 access to me, if that makes sense.

They have my mobile number, but I've never been called.

I guess it depends on the place you are working. My work places a massive emphasis on work/life balance. I work hard for my salary but the second I log off I'm off, thats it. If I was in a role where I would be expected to be reachable on my mobile I would be paid on-call rates and there would be a schedule of a few people so that each person might be on call for a week and off it for 6 week and so on.

Like I said, it comes down to the place you are working for, either they value their people or they don't.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I know at my place I am WFH, have the laptop, do my regular hours and also have everything on my phone.

The thing is though, on my phone, for all the work apps, there are no notifications by default. Outlook, Teams, Yammer, etc, nothing shows a notification. I can only see new emails/messages/assignments etc if I specifically open a work app.

So basically I have 24 hr access if I need it, but work does not have 24 access to me, if that makes sense.

They have my mobile number, but I've never been called.

I guess it depends on the place you are working. My work places a massive emphasis on work/life balance. I work hard for my salary but the second I log off I'm off, thats it. If I was in a role where I would be expected to be reachable on my mobile I would be paid on-call rates and there would be a schedule of a few people so that each person might be on call for a week and off it for 6 week and so on.

Like I said, it comes down to the place you are working for, either they value their people or they don't.

I'm the same, kinda :P Have everything shutting down at 5 and I'm away with the dog. Except one day every 2 weeks I might have to stay on til 6. Maybe once a week I'll drop someone a message in the States to let me know if they get something sorted then I can take care of it in 5 minutes at some point in the evening/night. Otherwise what's happened is that it'll break by the time I start the next morning and it drags on and on.

hots

The new law won't make much difference in practise, but it might give some people more confidence to be 'offline'. Don't find it a problem myself whatsoever, the balance comes easily, but I could see others not so much.

AlmightyCushion

plodder wrote: »

^ I wonder how workable that will be - particularly the last bit " (for example, by not routinely emailing or calling outside normal working hours)". In a typical MNC emails are routinely sent 24x7 because people are located anywhere in the world and you can't expect everyone to know where you are located.

Nobody expects such emails to be answered immediately, but that's already covered by the previous item in the list. So, does the code really expect others to not even send the emails in the first place?

I suspect this will be a bonanza for employment lawyers and people taking constructive dismissal cases.

I imagine it would depend on the mails and the expectation of a response/reply/action to them.

AlmightyCushion

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I imagine it would depend on the mails and the expectation of a response/reply/action to them.

Thats it, the expectation. My brother in law had this issue where he works for a company based out of the UK, but he travelled a lot all over Europe for them pre-covid. He was paid well for being away from home and while away it was an expectation that he was working the whole time he was away from home, something akin to oil rig workers if that makes sense.

Since covid, he's been based at home and doing everything over Teams/Zoom/Email/Phone.

However, his bosses are now calling him at all hours with issues but he's not getting anything for it. Last time I spoke with him I advised him to ask for an on call rate, payment for each call answered and additional if the issue takes more than a call to resolve. This is standard where I am.

He asked for it, they said no, but stopped calling him after 5

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I advised him to ask for an on call rate, payment for each call answered and additional if the issue takes more than a call to resolve. This is standard where I am.

He asked for it, they said no, but stopped calling him after 5

Let us know how he gets on at the next bonus or promotion opportunity.

Wage worker mentality is fine if you're a general operative.

Turtwig

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Let us know how he gets on at the next bonus or promotion opportunity.

Wage worker mentality is fine if you're a general operative.

Any other mentality creates a race to the bottom for everyone where burnout, toxicity and turnover to the entire work culture become significant risks.

plodder

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I imagine it would depend on the mails and the expectation of a response/reply/action to them.

What if an email that arrives at 11pm says "please take care of this asap". You'd hope that the recipient ignores it until the following morning, but what if they decide to answer, but then afterwards say they felt under pressure to.

I guess employers will have to establish policies that state you don't have to answer emails late in the evening. Obvious to most people, but there you go.

plodder

Deleted User wrote: »

I know at my place I am WFH, have the laptop, do my regular hours and also have everything on my phone.

The thing is though, on my phone, for all the work apps, there are no notifications by default. Outlook, Teams, Yammer, etc, nothing shows a notification. I can only see new emails/messages/assignments etc if I specifically open a work app.

So basically I have 24 hr access if I need it, but work does not have 24 access to me, if that makes sense.

They have my mobile number, but I've never been called.

I guess it depends on the place you are working. My work places a massive emphasis on work/life balance. I work hard for my salary but the second I log off I'm off, thats it. If I was in a role where I would be expected to be reachable on my mobile I would be paid on-call rates and there would be a schedule of a few people so that each person might be on call for a week and off it for 6 week and so on.

Like I said, it comes down to the place you are working for, either they value their people or they don't.

Same where I work. If you are expected to be on call, it is organised and you are paid for it.

On the other hand, I work with people on US West coast and we have meetings up to 7pm (or occasionally later). There has to be flexibility on both sides there. Sometimes, they start work early and sometimes we work late.

ednwireland

ednwireland wrote: »

Popped into my inbox today

From today, employees will have the right to ‘disconnect’ from work, outside of their normal working hours.

The government has published a new Code of Practice which will safeguard work-life balance by allowing employees to ‘switch off’ from their jobs outside of their normal working hours.

The new code of practice includes:

The right of an employee to not have to routinely perform work outside their normal working hours.
The right not to be penalised for refusing to attend to work matters outside of normal working hours.
The duty to respect another person’s right to disconnect (for example, by not routinely emailing or calling outside normal working hours).

not from our own HR i hasten to add !

Deleted User wrote: »

Since covid, he's been based at home and doing everything over Teams/Zoom/Email/Phone.

However, his bosses are now calling him at all hours with issues but he's not getting anything for it. Last time I spoke with him I advised him to ask for an on call rate, payment for each call answered and additional if the issue takes more than a call to resolve. This is standard where I am.

He asked for it, they said no, but stopped calling him after 5

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Let us know how he gets on at the next bonus or promotion opportunity.

Wage worker mentality is fine if you're a general operative.

This is exactly why the above Code of Practice is being introduced.

No one should have to be at their employers beck and call 24/7 for fear of being discriminated against for bonus or promotion purposes.

Batattackrat

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Let us know how he gets on at the next bonus or promotion opportunity.

Wage worker mentality is fine if you're a general operative.

It depends really, its grand getting a call once every few weeks if something important pops up. Depending on your role its expected.

Its not okay to be called five times a week and expect to be available for your employer every day when your work day finishes at 5.

You should be paid for been on-call.

Antares35

Turtwig wrote: »

Any other mentality creates a race to the bottom for everyone where burnout, toxicity and turnover to the entire work culture become significant risks.

Or we could just recognise that in the current climate, flexibility works both ways.

AlmightyCushion

Antares35 wrote: »

Or we could just recognise that in the current climate, flexibility works both ways.

Flexibility should work both ways but that doesn't mean employees should be getting calls at all hours which the original post says.

Antares35

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Flexibility should work both ways but that doesn't mean employees should be getting calls at all hours which the original post says.

The post I was replying to stated that anything other than wage worker mentality is a race to the bottom. If I wanted to reply to the original post you'd know because I'd have quoted it.

AlmightyCushion

Antares35 wrote: »

The post I was replying to stated that anything other than wage worker mentality is a race to the bottom. If I wanted to reply to the original post you'd know because I'd have quoted it.

Fair enough. I just think the context of the posts they were referring to when making the post influences their post. If the comments were talking about having to do something outside of normal hours once in a blue moon instead of all the time then it's possible they wouldn't have a problem with it.

Antares35

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Fair enough. I just think the context of the posts they were referring to when making the post influences their post. If the comments were talking about having to do something outside of normal hours once in a blue moon instead of all the time then it's possible they wouldn't have a problem with it.

I agree with you, there's no way I'd consider it acceptable to be getting calls at all hours etc. But I also don't think we should have a mentality where if there is a genuine urgency, that an employee will turn on the "you must pay me for these thirty seconds" kind of a thing. Then again I'm looking at it in the context of my own employer relationship, where there's just a natural balance of give and take on both sides. I don't mind getting a call at 8 or 9pm. My boss doesn't mind if I don't log on until 10am because my baby was up half the night teething

I realise not everyone is that lucky.

Turtwig

Antares35 wrote: »

Or we could just recognise that in the current climate, flexibility works both ways.

I never said it shouldn't.

beauf

You can have a policy on the server that stops sending email between certain times. You can have the same on your own email client, and in MS Teams so you don't get notified of calls and emails. You can also turn your PC/Laptop/Phone off.
There are lots of technical ways around this.

But in my experience, its usually a habit or culture that creates the expectation of hour of hours work. That is no so easy to break.

wes

I don't have a work phone, so only way to check my emails is m laptop. I shut that down, when I am done for the day.

If I am on call, they need to call me, otherwise I will go about my day as normal.

I am happy to be flexible, as where I work it is a 2 way street. I may need to attend an early or late meeting, or go on a call with production early in the morning if they are doing maintenance to help them out if something goes wrong. By the same token, if I have a dental appointment or something else I need to do during work hours, I just put it in my calendar, and its no issue.

I think the directive is fine, as not every work place is flexible like mine, where you may be needed to something out of hours, but at the same time you can do something during work hours as needed as well.

adocholiday

Reading through this thread I can't help feeling that people are being overly optimistic about how this will all play out long term. WFH has been a dream for me for loads of reasons. I have loads more time for myself and spend loads more time with my wife, I'm less stressed, I'm fitter and healthier than I was, I eat and sleep better, overall life is just so much better. I dread the day I get the email with the subject 'return to office', but it is inevitable.

The way I see this playing out is much more pessimistic than most here. I think it'll all start back great, 1 or 2 days per week in the office no big deal. But you'll soon see that some will start working maybe 3 or 4 days in, or a manager asks you to do an extra day for the next few weeks just for this particular project and suddenly the project is over but the expectation of you being there the extra day has stuck. There will be loads of this 'time creep' for what seems like small reasons but collectively they'll lead to more office time. Then it'll start to spread across other companies when they see that their competitors have their staff back in the office more, or they lose out to a competitor in a deal and on the grapevine it was because competitor was seen as more reliable as their staff are always in the office. It will only take 1 big player to do it and many will follow suit and then those saying that they'll just move to a job that does allow it will find less choice in that regard.

I know people are saying that their company is saving loads on costs etc but that's not going to really be a big deal long term. My own feeling is that within a couple of years most of us will be back to the 5 day grind in the office but I hope to be proven wrong!

Antares35

adocholiday wrote: »

I know people are saying that their company is saving loads on costs etc but that's not going to really be a big deal long term. My own feeling is that within a couple of years most of us will be back to the 5 day grind in the office but I hope to be proven wrong!

I hope you're wrong too! I think it will also depend somewhat on the sector and the agreements in place. My fiance has been approached by two companies offering 100percent work remotely positions. Unfortunately he isn't in a position to take them at the moment but in those cases, the remote element of the job is actually contractually embedded into the employer/ employee agreement.

But I agree in companies that started out as five days in the office, then we'e forced to offer WFH and are now just engaging in narrative about hybrids etc, there could indeed be creep. Especially when most offices have a proportion of micro managers and people who derive their validation from being seen to work instead of actually just producing results - and so this will contribute to the culture shifting back somewhat.

Backstreet Moyes

My friend who works at a multinational said they are downsizing in America where they rent floors in buildings and they are moving out of two of the floors

Not sure if its easier to downsize in America but that is good news he thinks

Also a survey said 80% want to work full time from home which is a big number

Really hoping my place allows the full time option but hard to know