Working From Home Megathread

Mrs OBumble

kippy wrote: »

Let's be straight here..if factory floor staff resent those that can WFH what do you think they should do?

They "should" suck it up.

In practise, very often they will use passive-aggressive, unprofessional means of getting back at the company for unfairness.

Naos

Naos wrote: »

I was speaking with a friend of mine who had WFH pre-pandemic. He told me if you enjoy WFH now, you would love it during normal times.

Being able to go to the gym right after work, pub, cafe during lunch, slip away quickly for the weekend etc - he said it's completely different and much, much better.

Aye that's the point I've been making for a while. I really hope it has knock-on effects and that enterprising people will keep cafes open past 6 o'clock in towns, at least for the longest 5/6 months of the year.
It really could be a boon for regional towns (more than converting pubs to working hubs anyway).

kippy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They "should" suck it up.

In practise, very often they will use passive-aggressive, unprofessional means of getting back at the company for unfairness.

I work in an oranisation where a number of people get paid over 100K a year and a few more have company cars, and a few more work a regular 9-5 where the remainder work swing shifts including night and weekend.
That's a lot of companies for ya in fairness. I think if a manager/the company cannot manage employee expectations and an employee does not know their place in the organisation, there are a lot of problems ahead for that organisation.

plodder

US perspective

After Pandemic, Shrinking Need for Office Space Could Crush Landlords

Looks like a 20-30% reduction in office valuations, rents, demand in New York city.

Good to see I'm not the only one

34% of WFH (work from home) workers say they’d rather quit than return to full-time office work

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good to see I'm not the only one

34% of WFH (work from home) workers say they’d rather quit than return to full-time office work

I don't know how things will pan out or what's in the pipeline but I know in my heart I will never return to a five days a week commute again. If my company brings that in, I'll go elsewhere.

Batattackrat

Wonder what will happen all the empty office spaces.
Converted to flats and the likes probably.

Cafes, coffee shops, Small shops, lunch time style restraunts going to take a massive hit as well.

Petrol stations, car garages, clothes shops going to take a huge hit as well.

Batattackrat

Batattackrat wrote: »

Wonder what will happen all the empty office spaces.
Converted to flats and the likes probably.

Cafes, coffee shops, Small shops, lunch time style restraunts going to take a massive hit as well.

Petrol stations, car garages, clothes shops going to take a huge hit as well.

Yes and no

Those spaces will get filled with something, which will be occupied by someone. Those people will still need those amenities

Plus the folks who are WFH bring their spending more in their local communities than they would have before

If anything WFH economics making smaller towns and villages a lot more viable in terms of growth

nearzero

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Well - It forces the employer to provide a legitimate reason for not allowing it.

Simply saying "we don't want to" is no longer sufficient.

Having said that ,like a lot of this kind of legislation, triggering that legal pathway isn't exactly going to do your career much good.

You are not wrong

There is just so many parts of my life that have had a positive effect from WFH even in the pandemic, from my anxiety and mental health, my finances, relationship etc... so I guess its just gut-wrenching to give all that up 'just because' they dont want to entertain the idea.

I always keep an eye on the job market if I'm honest as they havent been a great company to work for but I love my work and my team & manager and the sector I'm in has been hit alot by the pandemic, this company just got VERY lucky.

Naos

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I wonder if younger employees are typically in more challenging environments - box rooms in a house share, sharing with people they didn't choose and probably don't trust.

To add to that, as someone who is thriving WFH, if I was in the 18-25 age bracket I'm sure I'd want to be office based for the social interaction, nights out etc.

Now that I'm a bit older, I'm done with that craic and the commutes. Zero interest in it, if I want to meet with work colleagues I want to spend time with then I will / did pre-pandemic.

So I understand their point and get where they are coming from but as you get a little bit older, that changes.

Fr Tod Umptious

Antares35 wrote: »

I don't know how things will pan out or what's in the pipeline but I know in my heart I will never return to a five days a week commute again. If my company brings that in, I'll go elsewhere.

I think an interesting dynamic will evolve in companies that facilitate greater WFH and those that don't.

I work in rural Ireland.
I work in IT in a large well established company locally. I have a 10 minute commute.

Now the company are good to work for and treat their employees very well and are very well respected locally, but the reality is they pay less than the market rate for someone of my experience and skills.
They can do this because (pre-COVID) they knew that the market locally for my skills was not huge and the nearest cluster of companies that would want my skills were in two cities each about 75 miles away.
Anytime I considered changing job I had to take into account the long commute or the prospect of having to stay away from home a few nights a week.
And any company or agency I talked to would "hum and haw" about one day a week at home possibly, maybe etc.

But now that has changed.
My company have fully admitted that they will lose good people because WFH has made those people more mobile and equally they have said they can attract new talent for the same reasons.

From my own point of view if I'm ever thinking of moving job I'll be looking for 99% remote.

JDD

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think an interesting dynamic will evolve in companies that facilitate greater WFH and those that don't.

I work in rural Ireland.
I work in IT in a large well established company locally. I have a 10 minute commute.

Now the company are good to work for and treat their employees very well and are very well respected locally, but the reality is they pay less than the market rate for someone of my experience and skills.
They can do this because (pre-COVID) they knew that the market locally for my skills was not huge and the nearest cluster of companies that would want my skills were in two cities each about 75 miles away.
Anytime I considered changing job I had to take into account the long commute or the prospect of having to stay away from home a few nights a week.
And any company or agency I talked to would "hum and haw" about one day a week at home possibly, maybe etc.

But now that has changed.
My company have fully admitted that they will lose good people because WFH has made those people more mobile and equally they have said they can attract new talent for the same reasons.

From my own point of view if I'm ever thinking of moving job I'll be looking for 99% remote.

All true, but to be honest wages between big cities and more rural locations will start to converge closer together.

Your company doesn't pay as much as the big city company, because the big city company has to pay more to attract people to pay higher rents/mortgages closer to city, or to compensate those who have long commutes. Now that the majority of their workforce can WFH, they no longer need to pay as much.

Similarly, your own company is going to lose good employees in the short term to big city companies that have yet to adjust from paying big city wages. Your company will probably have to start paying a bit more to attract those new recruits.

Ultimately you would expect them to meet in the middle on wages - or, more likely, less than the middle because it's private enterprise and they will pay only as much as they can get away with. Which means you might get paid a bit more for sticking where you are (and negotiating the same as new recruits), but you probably can't anticipate getting a big city wage if you move jobs.

beauf

Naos wrote: »

To add to that, as someone who is thriving WFH, if I was in the 18-25 age bracket I'm sure I'd want to be office based for the social interaction, nights out etc.

Now that I'm a bit older, I'm done with that craic and the commutes. Zero interest in it, if I want to meet with work colleagues I want to spend time with then I will / did pre-pandemic.

So I understand their point and get where they are coming from but as you get a little bit older, that changes.

I think as peoples kids leave the nest, and or older singles, they also want to social after work quite a bit.

Fr Tod Umptious

beauf wrote: »

I think as peoples kids leave the nest, and or older singles, they also want to social after work quite a bit.

The proportion of people who really really want to WFH exclusively could be relatively small.

They would be the people with young families that already don't have enough hours in the day as it is that can save time with the lack of commute.
Money is also usually tight for such demographics as they may be early in the mortgage and the kids are expensive.
So the lack of a commute and spending money during the work day is good for them too.

The empty nesters don't need to be juggling school runs with commutes, their mortgage may be close to finished and they may like the idea of getting out of the house.

Sheep Shagger

Does nobody miss banter in the office and even after work drinks etc....something 100% WFH won't give you but a hybrid model will.

Would hate to be in a job where I'd prefer to work alone all the time, is that an age thing?...each to their own I guess.

Antares35

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Does nobody miss banter in the office and even after work drinks etc....something 100% WFH won't give you but a hybrid model will.

Would hate to be in a job where I'd prefer to work alone all the time...each to their own I guess.

Not enough to outweigh the benefits of WFH. It isn't just about "working alone all the time". It's the commute - thirty minutes in traffic then 45 mins on the Luas, both ends of the day!) the flexibility, being in control of who gets to wreck your head with boring gossip etc. And I love my job!

Jim Root

Am back doing 2 days a week in the office at my wanting and am liking it. Nice to get out of working from a bedroom. I’m doing my heavy lifting/writing work in the office and catching up on calls/softer stuff on the home days. I would have given my right arm for this flexibility Pre COVID.

Sheep Shagger

Antares35 wrote: »

Not enough to outweigh the benefits of WFH. It isn't just about "working alone all the time". It's the commute - thirty minutes in traffic then 45 mins on the Luas, both ends of the day!) the flexibility, being in control of who gets to wreck your head with boring gossip etc. And I love my job!

See I have a 1 hour commute each way door to door and to me, that's worth it for banter/human interaction/after-work drinks etc.

Like I say each to their own, like my job and like the office atmosphere - I must be lucky (have in most cases always liked both regardless of job).

Getting a few days a week at home without a commute is obviously a win, just wouldn't want to give up the office 100%

Antares35

Jim Root wrote: »

Am back doing 2 days a week in the office at my wanting and am liking it. Nice to get out of working from a bedroom. I’m doing my heaving lifting/writing work in the office and catching up on calls/softer stuff on the home days. I would have given my right arm for this flexibility Pre COVID.

I'd be happy to go back 1-2 days too. Problem I find WFH (and pretty much the only one for me) is OH has a very inflexible employer, whereas mine is flexible. Meaning that I have to keep pushing back when he's "got "something important" or "has to work late" etc and I'm left holding the baby. A lot of my work falls into the "important but not immediately urgent" category. It's also probably a gender/ equality issue as much as anything else but that's for another thread I suppose. But at least if I'm physically leaving the house and going into an actual office, nobody can just come along and say "I have a meeting now, you need to hold the baby".

Antares35

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

See I have a 1 hour commute each way door to door and to me, that's worth it for banter/human interaction/after-work drinks etc.

Like I say each to their own, like my job and like the office atmosphere - I must be lucky (have in most cases always liked both regardless of job).

Getting a few days a week at home without a commute is obviously a win, just wouldn't want to give up the office 100%

Depends on the commute too. When I lived in town I'd a half hour walk and loved it. Always kept my weight down and could put my earphones in and listen to music etc. But sitting in traffic, finding parking, using a Luas that more often than not turfs everyone off when it stops working, not to mention the germs (even pre covid) and antisocial behaviour (I'm still not over being assaulted on it in broad daylight), plus for me now I'd have the added complexity of having to get two small babies up and ready and into/ our of crèche either day..as my dad says I'd need to be leaving the house the night before

I do miss some of my co-workers but I suppose for me if I want to see them I'll just make the time anyway when we are allowed.

I'd love to have say monthly social events with work going forward, dinner and/ drinks etc. And especially if we have a hybrid model, it would be a good way of having everyone together at the same time

Wilmol

Antares35 wrote: »

I'd be happy to go back 1-2 days too. Problem I find WFH (and pretty much the only one for me) is OH has a very inflexible employer, whereas mine is flexible. Meaning that I have to keep pushing back when he's "got "something important" or "has to work late" etc and I'm left holding the baby. A lot of my work falls into the "important but not immediately urgent" category. It's also probably a gender/ equality issue as much as anything else but that's for another thread I suppose. But at least if I'm physically leaving the house and going into an actual office, nobody can just come along and say "I have a meeting now, you need to hold the baby".

You make it sound like the government has forced you to have a baby and you're now complaining about something you never had control over.

Antares35

Wilmol wrote: »

You make it sound like the government has forced you to have a baby and you're now complaining about something you never had control over.

You do realise that pregnancy lasts nine months, and therefore many women were already pregnant before covid hit?

My post has nothing to do with the government, and is a statement of fact reflective of my own situation in the context of creches being closed and working from home - such is the nature of the thread love.

I'm an older single - and practically an empty nester, with only one adult daughter living at home - but I don't miss office banter at all, and I haven't done after work drinks in over 20 years - since before I had my daughter!

Happy to go back to an office 1/2 days a week if I must, but I will never go back full time. I wasn't even full time office based before covid.

Andrew will be pleased to know that Forsa are looking at the option for workers to to refuse working from home, if they don't want to.

Which I'm fine with.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm practically an empty nester, with only one adult daughter living at home but I don't miss office banter at all, and I haven't done after work drinks in over 20 years - since before I had my daughter!

Happy to go back to an office 1/2 days a week if I must, but I will never go back full time. I wasn't even full time office based before covid.

Andrew will be pleased to know that Forsa are looking at an option for workers to allow them to refuse working from home, if they don't want it. Which I'm fine with.

If there's talk of a hybrid model I think I'll ask for a four day week and do two in, two out well, no harm asking

2lazytogetup

loyatemu wrote: »

I'd say jurisdiction is the biggest factor. I don't know how it works across different US states, but Ireland and Spain are separate countries despite both being in the EU. Tax and employment laws are different and that's a headache most companies don't want to deal with.

What happens if you work for Dublin company, but wfh in Spain and your laptop breaks or gets stolen. For tax reasons HR payroll will request you live in Dublin. So how do you explain asking IT to courier a replacement laptop to Barcelona

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

If there's talk of a hybrid model I think I'll ask for a four day week and do two in, two out well, no harm asking

It's now your right!

I've been on a four day week for about ten years now, and was working 1 day a week from home before covid and was going to increase that to 2 anyway before Covid happened. So when I do return, thats exactly what I plan to do.

Batattackrat

2lazytogetup wrote: »

What happens if you work for Dublin company, but wfh in Spain and your laptop breaks or gets stolen. For tax reasons HR payroll will request you live in Dublin. So how do you explain asking IT to courier a replacement laptop to Barcelona

Fly home.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's now your right!

I've been on a four day week for about ten years now, and was working 1 day a week from home before covid and was going to increase that to 2 anyway before Covid happened. So when I do return, thats exactly what I plan to do.

It sounds ideal

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

It sounds ideal

I started a four day week when my daughter was in secondary, and then my mother's health started to decline, so the extra day at home gave my time to deal with family stuff and still get a rest at the weekend. It was a godsend.

Even to those who can't work from home, or don't want to, I'd recommend a four day week, if they can get it!

Theres an idea.

Haven't thought it through, so it might not be feasible, but maybe companies that can't offer WFH for whatever reason, (eg. factory floor workers / machine operators, etc) could look at offering shorter working week options as a compromise.