Working From Home Megathread

BrianD3

Following on from the last few posts, the key feature of WFH is the benefit to private sector employers. Reduced office costs and possibly the ability to extract more flexibility from employees (e.g. people willing to work more unpaid overtime because they're no longer doing a 2 hour commute)

If there was no benefit to employers, WFH would be dead except in a limited number of sectors where supply and demand is in favour of employees. Also, if the state were to try to force private sector employers into WFH and there was no benefit to those employers, they would find ways around this

Very different in the public sector. Organisations won't care about downsizing their offices as the taxpayer will pay for them anyway. There might actually be active resistance to WFH for this reason - Jaysus lads, we have a nice new office building here and we'll look like idiots if it is half empty, get those staff back to their desks.

The is why the legal right to request WFH with recourse to the WRC is vital for the public sector. Public service employers need a higher authority to tell them what to do and drag them into the 21st century. The public service also needs to be setting an example here for societal and environmental reasons, we should all be trying to move away from sitting in traffic travelling to offices if the same work can be done in a home office.

HairySalmon

I’ll be job hunting shortly and I’ll want exclusive WFH and won’t be applying to anything other than that. If enough people have the same idea a company won’t have a choice but to offer it or lose out on talent.

My current employer doesn’t want us back until it’s safe to do so by guidelines but when I asked for WFH on a permanent basis I was told “if I let you, what’s to stop the software developers asking for it”. Yeah, what’s the issue? They want us back in the office 3-4 days a week and it’s purely a control thing or feeling like the team won’t bond... even though we’ve never had an issue in a year.

AdamD

AdamD wrote: »

I think some staff might be in for a rather big shock if they think its going to be an employee's job market in the next few years

Couldn’t agree more with this, a few sectors will be able to offer it but I think a majority will require some presence in the office.

I would think a company has a very small number of employees that they would offer the world to if it kept them at the company, the majority are just a number and if they do move in they will be replaced by someone of a similar level very quickly.

Admittedly if half the workforce demand WFH permanently this would change, but I don’t see that happening. We did some questionnaires at work and less than 10% wanted to WFH full time post pandemic.

JTMan

Very interesting NY Times article on hybrid policies ...

https://twitter.com/andrewrsorkin/status/1385945039008903169

Batattackrat

Szero wrote: »

The company I work for has now announced their post-covid hybrid arrangements.

One must spent "at least" 50% of their time in the office. Rule likely to apply from September.

This caused war. The vast majority of people, some who have settled outside Dublin, wanted fully remote or 1 day a week or max 2 days a week. Not 50/50.

Employers need to consider what employees want before introducing their hybrid policy. If this experience is anything to go by, most people want more remote time than office time.

Weve had around 40 leaving my sector in my company with promises that the companies in Dublin there moving to is two days in office and three from home.

We are at a full scale crisis to be honest. Were around a 90 minute drive from Dublin.

My company allready offered three days from home after Covid. They have no choice now but to offer five days from home are increase everyones salary by 5K minimun.

Szero

Szero wrote: »

The company I work for has now announced their post-covid hybrid arrangements.

One must spent "at least" 50% of their time in the office. Rule likely to apply from September.

This caused war. The vast majority of people, some who have settled outside Dublin, wanted fully remote or 1 day a week or max 2 days a week. Not 50/50.

Employers need to consider what employees want before introducing their hybrid policy. If this experience is anything to go by, most people want more remote time than office time.

I have been fortunate enough to be given free reign on deciding what hybrid working pattern I choose to work. As I work in IT support, the vast majority of the work is via VPN to the site, but of course I do need to move the occasional cable from time to time or install/remove hardware, so those are onsite times.
At the moment some weeks I can do about an 80-20% split between home and site, the odd week 100% at home and some weeks up to 80% onsite.

Employers will need to allow such flexibility if they want to retain their staff, employees & their managers can come to individual arrangements to suit the work patterns and business needs.

One size fits all would be a disastrous policy to try to enforce as the OP states.

Sheep Shagger

As we're talking about WFH, has has anyone else noticed their utility bills (power and gas) increasing, as you'd expect giving (in our case) there are 2 computers on 8 hours a day with lighting and in the winter, heating. None of which would apply with 5 days working in the office.

The ridiculous tax reclaim from the state is pointless and our employers (like most it seems) don't pay the EUR 3.20 amount a day.

Antares35

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As we're talking about WFH, has has anyone else noticed their utility bills (power and gas) increasing, as you'd expect giving (in our case) there are 2 computers on 8 hours a day with lighting and in the winter, heating. None of which would apply with 5 days working in the office.

The ridiculous tax reclaim from the state is pointless and our employers (like most it seems) don't pay the EUR 3.20 amount a day.

Definitely the electricity bill has gone up a lot!

beauf

If you had kids at home doing online schooling or teens, or college kids or some people house sharing with a bunch of people all online.

We often have 3 or 4 computers online at the same time. Plus phones and tablets.

Sheep Shagger

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

As we're talking about WFH, has has anyone else noticed their utility bills (power and gas) increasing, as you'd expect giving (in our case) there are 2 computers on 8 hours a day with lighting and in the winter, heating. None of which would apply with 5 days working in the office.

The ridiculous tax reclaim from the state is pointless and our employers (like most it seems) don't pay the EUR 3.20 amount a day.

On the flip side, there must be a reduction on the commuting & eating away costs that would in most cases outweigh the additional costs of electric & supermarket shopping.

Sheep Shagger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the flip side, there must be a reduction on the commuting & eating away costs that would in most cases outweigh the additional costs of electric & supermarket shopping.

True of course - it's also the employer saving too.

voldejoie

Deleted User wrote: »

On the flip side, there must be a reduction on the commuting & eating away costs that would in most cases outweigh the additional costs of electric & supermarket shopping.

Work provided us with breakfast, lunch and snacks so I've found my food bill has gone up loads since the start of WFH! Saving on the commuting costs definitely helps though. I've heard some friends who work in some of the big tech companies saying that their employers will be covering the costs of commuting if they return to the office (although most of them will have the option to be fully remote on a permanent basis).

Still haven't heard anything from work in terms of what their approach to the return to office will be - it's going to be controversial no matter what stance they take, I think. Know lots of people who want back into the office ASAP and others who never want to go back!

Sultan of Bling

Sheep Shagger wrote:

The ridiculous tax reclaim from the state is pointless and our employers (like most it seems) don't pay the EUR 3.20 amount a day.

Why is it pointless?

It takes a few minutes on the revenue app. You won't get loads back but a few quid is a few quid.

It's your money and you work hard enough for it. Better in your pocket than the taxman.

AndrewJRenko

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the flip side, there must be a reduction on the commuting & eating away costs that would in most cases outweigh the additional costs of electric & supermarket shopping.

Not for those who used to walk or cycle to work.

The Jan/ Feb gas bill was the highest I've ever seen ,even though I had renegotiated for the best deal on the market late last year.

Tax relief is tiny, no real impact.

sterz

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

Why is it pointless?

It takes a few minutes on the revenue app. You won't get loads back but a few quid is a few quid.

It's your money and you work hard enough for it. Better in your pocket than the taxman.

You get f all back and it's not worth the hassle. Took me more than just a few minutes considering the number of different bills throughout the year and figuring out the split with the household.

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

On the flip side, there must be a reduction on the commuting & eating away costs that would in most cases outweigh the additional costs of electric & supermarket shopping.

I was instantly up 130 per week from day one of lockdown - 50 on petrol/ parking and 80 on pet sitter. Our food bill is up slightly as we obviously lunch at home now (and snack more which is a terrible lockdown habit!) but we weren't the type to spend on lunches out anyway. Electric definitely up but with a baby in the house now the washing machine seems to be constantly going so it's hard to know how much is attributable to WFH. Overall though it's definitely still a saving for us.

RebelButtMunch

I'm working at home just over a year now. Counting myself lucky that I'm in full employment but I have a major pain in the hole being in the house all day every day. I don't miss the office, but I do miss getting out of the house.

At the weekends I try to spend as much time as possible outside, long cycles, walks, hikes etc or just gardening.

My place (mixture of IT/Finance/Sales/Call center) is bringing in a return to work plan. They are going to have 3 categories

1. Work from the office. Must be at least 4 days a week in the office. Guaranteed the same desk every day.
2. Hybrid remote. Can WFH ad hoc. Must be able to come to the office when required depending on what's going on. Will have to reserve a hot desk. Each team's area will have a supply of hot desks, so you can sit near your group.
3. WFH Full time. This will be very very rare and realistically the company is only doing this to facilitate the people who were already on this arrangement pre-covid.

The top dogs in the company are going to decide what job roles can fit into either category as a starting point.

Quin_Dub

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

Why is it pointless?

It takes a few minutes on the revenue app. You won't get loads back but a few quid is a few quid.

It's your money and you work hard enough for it. Better in your pocket than the taxman.

It's "pointless" because the absolute max anyone is likely to get from it is about €60-€70 for the entire year.

You are right , I'd still claim it as it's "my money" but it is not in any way a meaningful assistance to the costs of working from home.

And depending on how you pay your household bills , it could be quite a bit of hassle.

For example - Technically I could claim for heating costs but I don't have accounts with suppliers or pay by direct debit for my Home heating oil or for the bags of pellets for my pellet stove so trying to dig out a years worth of receipts (if I even have them) is a pain in the backside.

They could simply allow the employee to claim the €3.20 a day directly instead it being an employer deduction.

Then all you'd need is a letter from the employer confirming the number of days worked remote.

average_runner

For me the benefits of working from home out weight the office by alot:

1) No commuting so spend more time with the family in the evenings
2) Get to run in a nice park instead of near busy roads going to work, so healthier for the body, avoiding all the fumes
3) Less likely to pick viruses up at home, less people here and better air system than the aircon in offices
4) Food is healthier at home also, fresher also.
5) No stress in rushing home for kids sports.
6) Stress free from avoiding crazy cyclists and drivers on the roads in the city centre.

As a humble civil servant, there are no free meals or coffee provided were i work, and no canteen serving food on-site. Just a small break room with a kettle and a microwave where you could make a hot drink or heat something up.

So, no increase in food bills as I had my breakfast before leaving for work and brought in my lunch. I did splurge on a €2 Mcdonalds drive thru coffee on the way to work - total cost €8 per week - with every 7th coffee free!

I guess I am saving about €20 a week on petrol, but have seen an increase on the electricity and gas bills, however I think it cancels itself out. No big savings here!

Still prefer WFH, though.

Quality of life should be a major factor in whether WFH is better for you or not, I know some people are really struggling with WFH on the kitchen table with kids running around or stuck in the bedroom, for those people there is a third option where it should be possible to use a local WFH hub which is a good compromise between long commutes and working local.

How many of the posters here have access to such facilities and what are your opinions?

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Quality of life should be a major factor in whether WFH is better for you or not, I know some people are really struggling with WFH on the kitchen table with kids running around or stuck in the bedroom, for those people there is a third option where it should be possible to use a local WFH hub which is a good compromise between long commutes and working local.

How many of the posters here have access to such facilities and what are your opinions?

Our company has had several of them pre covid and while I never used them (main office was closest to me) I know of others who do use them and their commute is maybe 20 minutes as opposed to two hours on a train kind of thing.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Quality of life should be a major factor in whether WFH is better for you or not, I know some people are really struggling with WFH on the kitchen table with kids running around or stuck in the bedroom, for those people there is a third option where it should be possible to use a local WFH hub which is a good compromise between long commutes and working local.

How many of the posters here have access to such facilities and what are your opinions?

My department is probably unusual in that there was limited hot-desking option already available in some of our buildings pre-covid and they already had plans in the works to expand on the number when covid happened. There will be a hot-desking option within 5 minutes commute of my house when we go back to office based work - not in a public hub, but in a building owned by my department.

Mastroianni

voldejoie wrote: »

. I've heard some friends who work in some of the big tech companies saying that their employers will be covering the costs of commuting if they return to the office (although most of them will have the option to be fully remote on a permanent basis).

that's actually my dream, can you tell which company is? I mean if is not a secret...

Mastroianni

Deleted User wrote: »

As a humble civil servant, there are no free meals or coffee provided were i work, and no canteen serving food on-site. Just a small break room with a kettle and a microwave where you could make a hot drink or heat something up.

So, no increase in food bills as I had my breakfast before leaving for work and brought in my lunch. I did splurge on a €2 Mcdonalds drive thru coffee on the way to work - total cost €8 per week - with every 7th coffee free!

I guess I am saving about €20 a week on petrol, but have seen an increase on the electricity and gas bills, however I think it cancels itself out. No big savings here!

Still prefer WFH, though.

I respect your honest point of view!

Honestly, for me, I'd take a paycut rather then have to go back to commuting 4/5 days a week in Dublin again.

Not having to commute has made a huge difference to my health and wellbeing over the last year, I used to be wiped out by the time I'd get home from work, often coming in the door too tired to cook and in bed by 8pm or on the other side of the coin, up at 6am to get out of the house by 6:45am so I was at my desk by 8am and avoiding the traffic that way.

Never again.

AndrewJRenko

Mastroianni wrote: »

that's actually my dream, can you tell which company is? I mean if is not a secret...

Emploiyees will be facing substantial BIK bills if they try this. Are they really going to subsidise those employees who live furthest away more than those who live close?

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Honestly, for me, I'd take a paycut rather then have to go back to commuting 4/5 days a week in Dublin again.

Not having to commute has made a huge difference to my health and wellbeing over the last year, I used to be wiped out by the time I'd get home from work, often coming in the door too tired to cook and in bed by 8pm or on the other side of the coin, up at 6am to get out of the house by 6:45am so I was at my desk by 8am and avoiding the traffic that way.

Never again.

Same as that. I've already looked at equivalent jobs in the counties we are looking at buying. I'd take a max 10k paycut but still seriously consider it. My worst nightmare is being stuck commuting a nine to five somewhere in the city centre. I just have no desire to be part of the Dublin commuter rat race. I've done it for long enough.

Mastroianni

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Emploiyees will be facing substantial BIK bills if they try this. Are they really going to subsidise those employees who live furthest away more than those who live close?

I don't know about bills refund, I applied the form from Revenue and I got the incredible amount of 30€ circa for more than 1000€ electricity bills.
Nevertheless after one year of pandemic I believe that WFH should be the new standard instead of an emergency way to work.
It's a win-win situation I don't understand why my company is struggling to bring people to the office in a building where they pay a rent.
Is it better pay tax saver commuting to all employees and so on, instead to keep them working from home?
Honestly this is silly.

average_runner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Emploiyees will be facing substantial BIK bills if they try this. Are they really going to subsidise those employees who live furthest away more than those who live close?

Not really. If its a part of your salary. I know of companies that give you x amount a year, say 3000, how you spend that money is up to you.


Some spend it on the healthcare, taxsaver, sport clubs



Its a great scheme and more companies are looking at it.