Working From Home Megathread

Mrs OBumble

Antares35 wrote: »

Yes we probably should have, but we didn't. However the landscape is different now and the dialogue is at least opened. Should we be precluded from seeking flexible hybrid models now on the basis that we didn't pre-pandemic?

Absolutely not.

But don't be naive about costs, benefits, proportions and the likely home/office time split.

WFH has advantages AND disadvantages. Some people don't admit to the latter.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Absolutely not.

But don't be naive about costs, benefits, proportions and the likely home/office time split.

WFH has advantages AND disadvantages. Some people don't admit to the latter.

It depends on the job, not the principle of WFH.

In some jobs, like mine, there are very few if any disadvantages (and indeed we were WFH 2 days a week pre pandemic, with additional flexible arrangements being rolled out to staff). For some jobs there will be a huge number of barriers and disadvantages to any WFH

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Absolutely not.

But don't be naive about costs, benefits, proportions and the likely home/office time split.

WFH has advantages AND disadvantages. Some people don't admit to the latter.

Who are these "some people" you keep referring to? I can assure you I am far from naive

Mastroianni

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Absolutely not.

But don't be naive about costs, benefits, proportions and the likely home/office time split.

WFH has advantages AND disadvantages. Some people don't admit to the latter.

so given this statement, the Work will be WFH as new standard or this is going to end in 2022/23 ?

big syke

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So they're paying the BIK as well as the ticket? Dunno much about how that works, but do they not end up having to pay the BIK on the BIK then?

What's in it for the employer? Would they not just include an allowance in salary for all? If you cycle or walk to work, do you get paid less than your peers?

They pay directly for the tax saver ticket and pay the BIK seperately.

What's in it for the employer? Well its an employee benefit

https://blog.boundlesshq.com/2020/05/15/a-guide-to-benefit-in-kind-tax-around-the-world/

Antares35

Mastroianni wrote: »

so given this statement, the Work will be WFH as new standard or this is going to end in 2022/23 ?

I don't think anyone can claim to know with absolute certainty. And a one size fits all is not going to be applied across the board. It will depend on the nature of the work, the company culture, the legislative landscape too - consultation has already opened in this context.

Some companies will take to it like a duck to water. My fiancé works for a place that has already committed to a prescribed hybrid depending on ones role. They had planned a physical expansion pre-covid but have pulled that while also taking on 500 new staff - WFH will therefore clearly be part of their agenda going forward. The office they have barely fit the existing number of staff, without the additional recruits.

My own company are slower to open the dialogue, however off the record conversation appears to be pointing towards a hybrid also. They've also shown themselves to truly value a work life balance and have been very quick to offer four day weeks and flexible arrangements to those who seek them. But, they have yet to formally commit to any model.

I don't see why people have an issue with this or consider it to be an "entitlement" mentality if you go elsewhere. In the same way that people make decisions every day about where they will work based on what's in it for them. Pay, pension, health insurance, childcare subsidy, location, career prospects etc. There's so much to consider and now WFH or a hybrid will be simply another factor that people might consider when applying somewhere. People make decisions every day about what's "in it for them" and aren't accused of self entitlement. I really doubt anyone is job hunting with a truly and unquestionable altruistic agenda!

recyclops

hmmm wrote: »

As was said above, companies are going to have to figure this out. Some MNCs have been doing this for years, taking on employees in multiple geographical regions into the same team.

I dont think it is the companies that need to figure it out, I think people need to realise that its not as easy being new when you havent a clue whos who or whats what as you sit in your home office, kitchen hub etc.

I think alot of the bullish statements of "if I am not allowed I am walking and I will find a job that suits me" is a little niave imo. There will be a lot of business that have that model and most will bend over backwards to make sure onboarding is as easy as possible due to the cost to recruit but its then down to the employee to be able to slot into the business without the traditional welcoming experiences.

As you say the genie cant go back into the bottle but the genie we are all living now is our normal jobs with the relationships, responsibilites etc already well established we are just doing it at home because we have too.

Mastroianni

Mastroianni wrote: »

so given this statement, the Work will be WFH as new standard or this is going to end in 2022/23 ?

I expect there will be a mixture of hybrid working patterns in the future, the days of all staff being expected (and willing to )commute to a desk job, 9-5, 40 hours a week are gone for good.


People have realised that there is a better way to do things, but there will be a few old style manager types who will resist this as much as possible as they lose the little control they have over others.

Meanwhile in London, they're planning a different approach.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56888615
The City of London is planning to convert empty offices into housing in a bid to revive the area after the Covid crisis.


The City of London Corporation, which looks after the Square Mile, is aiming for at least 1,500 new homes by 2030.


Its policy chair said firms had told them their operations will change to accommodate flexible working.

Quin_Dub

Deleted User wrote: »

Meanwhile in London, they're planning a different approach.

To be fair , that's a very reasonable idea that most cities should be looking at.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Absolutely not.

But don't be naive about costs, benefits, proportions and the likely home/office time split.

WFH has advantages AND disadvantages. Some people don't admit to the latter.

Please outline the disadvantages of WFH

Quin_Dub

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be fair , that's a very reasonable idea that most cities should be looking at.

Yes, it brings us back to the idea of mixed use planning (or evolution) that used to exist.
Ideal for people who have jobs that WFH cannot accommodate for whatever reasons.
In reality, I expect that these will become more like worker's barracks during the week and they go to their rural homes at the weekends.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Meanwhile in London, they're planning a different approach.

Note, this is the City of London, not London City. The City of London has a daytime population of +300k and a night time population of barely 7k.

Its also got one of the most messed up system of governance the world over with businesses holding all the power and residents having virtually no say in anything

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1387047632300773381

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

Please outline the disadvantages of WFH

There is some:
- Lack of social interaction
- Harder to get someone's attention for an issue, while in the office you just walk over.
- Harder to build relationships up with new members of your team.
- Team bonding





I still be working from home most the time.

RebelButtMunch

average_runner wrote: »

There is some:
- Lack of social interaction
- Harder to get someone's attention for an issue, while in the office you just walk over.
- Harder to build relationships up with new members of your team.
- Team bonding





I still be working from home most the time.

My upper echelons also believe that people that WFH all the time are less likely to reach their potential. Or what would be their potential if they had the social element , ad-hoc chit chat type of thing, of not working from home

average_runner

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

My upper echelons also believe that people that WFH all the time are less likely to reach their potential. Or what would be their potential if they had the social element , ad-hoc chit chat type of thing, of not working from home

Depends on the job, some of the best software engineers in the world achieve more from working from home.


You get more time to focus, you are more likely to solve an issue yourself instead of the easy option and ask for help!!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Note, this is the City of London, not London City. The City of London has a daytime population of +300k and a night time population of barely 7k.

Its also got one of the most messed up system of governance the world over with businesses holding all the power and residents having virtually no say in anything

Correct, that's why I also posted that it would most likely turn into an office worker's barracks where only those who are forbidden to WFH will live during the working week.

Mrs OBumble

average_runner wrote: »

There is some:
- Lack of social interaction
- Harder to get someone's attention for an issue, while in the office you just walk over.
- Harder to build relationships up with new members of your team.
- Team bonding





I still be working from home most the time.

Small issues that could be solved quickly F2F sometimes become major dramas.

Far more difficult to integrate new hires: despite zoom, I don't even begin to trust people I've never met.

For some employees, increased cost: if I had to do it post-covid I would need to rent a bigger house In the meantime I just put up with backache and interruptions because my apartment is just too small for working and living.

Lack of backup equipment: in the office, if someone's PC breaks, they just use one being's to whoever is away that day. At home, there are no spares, so hardware malfunction may mean 1-2 days unable to work.

Cluedo Monopoly

My brother has just been told he can WFH until the end of 2021. His wife was told that 2 months ago.
They are thrilled. It's brilliant for family time and work-life balance.

beauf

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

...
Far more difficult to integrate new hires: despite zoom, I don't even begin to trust people I've never met.....

I don't think its all positive for everyone. There difficulties no doubt.

Without trying to be glib what about online banking, telephone banking etc.

But on this one, new hires. If you work a a contractor, especially in a technical field, working remotely with people and experts or contractors is routine. I've worked for years with people I've only met a handful of times. We've taken a load of people since the start of the lockdown, with no real issues.

I'm not saying that it will work for everyone, or every job.

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

Depends on the job, some of the best software engineers in the world achieve more from working from home.


You get more time to focus, you are more likely to solve an issue yourself instead of the easy option and ask for help!!

Lack of interruptions and of course, google, some jobs are far better suited for individual working. WFH of course helps in these situations.
On the other hand, some team meetings from time to time really help to ensure everyone knows which way is up.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Please outline the disadvantages of WFH

And I just ran into another one:

If people have poor broadband at home, their laptops may not be taking windows updates. This can become, ahh, troublesome over time.

hmmm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And I just ran into another one:

If people have poor broadband at home, their laptops may not be taking windows updates. This can become, ahh, troublesome over time.

From an IT perspective, a broadband outage or a laptop which dies suddenly becomes a week-long outage if things have to be shipped in and out of the person's house.

I can see companies setting ground-rules e.g. must have backup broadband or be close enough to the office to come in if you need IT assistance.

beauf

In fairness if you don't have decent internet you're not going to be WFH so its entirely irrelevant.

hmmm

beauf wrote: »

In fairness if you don't have decent internet you're not going to be WFH so its entirely irrelevant.

You can have decent Internet and see an outage.

What happens then?

Not such a problem if you're within reach of the office, a big problem if you're not.

Lots to consider in this new world.

wes

hmmm wrote: »

From an IT perspective, a broadband outage or a laptop which dies suddenly becomes a week-long outage if things have to be shipped in and out of the person's house.

Competent IT team should be able to over night that. I know I had an issue with a power supply and I got a new one the next day last year.

hmmm wrote: »

I can see companies setting ground-rules e.g. must have backup broadband or be close enough to the office to come in if you need IT assistance.

Company could provide a 4/5 G dongle that will work just fine a pinch. I know when I lost internet for a couple of hours last year I just tethered my phone, and was able to work just fine with 4g speeds, which would be fine for most work loads.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

You can have decent Internet and see an outage.

What happens then?

Not such a problem if you're within reach of the office, a big problem if you're not.

Lots to consider in this new world.

If you are that important that an outage is a 'big problem' then you're probably going to be near an office anyway. Reality is that we all think that we're important when we are really not. And you're unlikely to have a broadband outage AND a 4G mobile outage at the same time. So you can still make calls, join zooms, and work offline until its fixed.

I have outages when WFH at my partners rural home all the time. really isn't a problem

AlmightyCushion

hmmm wrote: »

You can have decent Internet and see an outage.

What happens then?

Not such a problem if you're within reach of the office, a big problem if you're not.

Lots to consider in this new world.

Just hotspot to your phone. Our team has been WFH for over a year now. The work VPN has had more down time than my broadband.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

You can have decent Internet and see an outage.

What happens then?

Not such a problem if you're within reach of the office, a big problem if you're not.

Lots to consider in this new world.

Most people can fall back to a mobile hotspot, failing that a short drive to a place with a signal and the laptop in the car.