Working From Home Megathread

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1387047632300773381

I can fully agree with this, after a 2 hour commute, I really didn't have any ambition to work, so different now when I have a 30 second or 10 minutes commute depending on whether I am WFH or in the office. I can get up to full speed almost immediately.

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

There is some:
- Lack of social interaction
- Harder to get someone's attention for an issue, while in the office you just walk over.
- Harder to build relationships up with new members of your team.
- Team bonding

I still be working from home most the time.

To answer your points in the order they were given

• Friends & family for social interaction. Don't know about the rest of ye but my work colleagues are just that, colleagues, nothing more
• Phone, email, webchat message (Teams/Slack etc)
• Relationships? You work together, you're not getting married to each other. I think you might be referring to familiarity and I'll counter with a recent example of a project I worked on with people from 3 continents, all remotely. Catching up, having a joke, chit chat etc was the norm prior to each Teams meeting kicking off. Its no different to what happens in person
• Bonding, again, are you looking to marry some of these people? Working well together has not been an issue I've come across in my career. Sure there are assholes, there are always assholes and there have been great bosses and crap bosses, the WFH experience is no different in this regard, but bonding, come on.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Small issues that could be solved quickly F2F sometimes become major dramas.

Far more difficult to integrate new hires: despite zoom, I don't even begin to trust people I've never met.

For some employees, increased cost: if I had to do it post-covid I would need to rent a bigger house In the meantime I just put up with backache and interruptions because my apartment is just too small for working and living.

Lack of backup equipment: in the office, if someone's PC breaks, they just use one being's to whoever is away that day. At home, there are no spares, so hardware malfunction may mean 1-2 days unable to work.

Answering your points as given

• Communicate clearly and issues do not arise or if they do arise, they are resolved quickly without escalating. This is the same onsite or WFH, no difference.
• New hire integration, I can see how this might be an issue where a place had not adapted their onboarding for WFH, otherwise the WFH experience is no different.
• Unsuitable home setup. This is like being unable to be a travelling salesman because you don't have a car. Can't believe I need to state the obvious, but if your personal situation is not conducive to WFH then obviously its not going to be a good fit for you.
• Equipment, my place switched to 100% laptops ages ago so if your laptop dies, you wait for a new one. Whether you are onsite or WFH the result is the same. Often they will have them in stock, sometimes they don't. If one has to be shipped to you, its a day. In the meantime, you can't work. As others have pointed out, crap fails, when it does you wait until its fixed, be that a laptop, a VPN, Teams etc.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And I just ran into another one:

If people have poor broadband at home, their laptops may not be taking windows updates. This can become, ahh, troublesome over time.

See my response to unsuitable home setup

AndrewJRenko

Deleted User wrote: »

I can fully agree with this, after a 2 hour commute, I really didn't have any ambition to work, so different now when I have a 30 second or 10 minutes commute depending on whether I am WFH or in the office. I can get up to full speed almost immediately.

Strange how they assume that all commutes are painful. Did they include those who walk or cycle for their commutes?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Strange how they assume that all commutes are painful. Did they include those who walk or cycle for their commutes?

It's like "one size fits all", I just stated what I saw from my perspective, of course others will have different commutes.
Some people have to endure a long journey car sharing with someone who does not know how to use soap!
Others on the other hand have a pleasant walk via the local park to work.

Antares35

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Strange how they assume that all commutes are painful. Did they include those who walk or cycle for their commutes?

Not everyone had the luxury. In any event you wouldn't catch me dead (or perhaps I would be) cycling anywhere near Dublin city centre. I don't have a death wish.

I did have a walking commute for a while when I lived near town, and it was lovely in the spring and summer, and kept the weight down and generally benefited my health. In the dead of winter, it wasn't so nice being lashed on.

kippy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Will it make for happy customers, though?

Customers are likely to demand that their data is managed securely, and that conversations about them are in private. How does that work in a hub, using what amounts to public WiFi?

It depends a lot on the role and whether there are vocal conversations involved. Public WiFi is is similiar depending on the technology at play.
So it won't suit everyone but for thos it does why not.
Hub work wouldn't suit me. It's either full office, home or hybrid.

Mr.S

Mr.S wrote: »

This is such a weird attitude, especially with modern day working culture.

It is an attitude that is not reflective of an international business, that’s for sure. Even before the pandemic I had met very few of the people i wrk with and we get on great. And our new hires and grads are integrated into the organisation just fine. I don’t mind at all....even in the office my colleagues are just my colleagues, not my best friends.

I do get though how a domestic company, without a couple of decades of experience of working like this, would struggle with the concept of relationships being only over zoom.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It is an attitude that is not reflective of an international business, that’s for sure. Even before the pandemic I had met very few of the people i wrk with and we get on great. And our new hires and grads are integrated into the organisation just fine. I don’t mind at all....even in the office my colleagues are just my colleagues, not my best friends.

I do get though how a domestic company, without a couple of decades of experience of working like this, would struggle with the concept of relationships being only over zoom.

I would say that I have never met at least 80% of the colleagues I work with on a day to day basis, now the only difference is that I also seldom see the other 20%, these are people that I would share office space with and work with day to day.


It's good to keep a personal contact with them, just not necessary do be present for 40 hours a week.

AdamD

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Strange how they assume that all commutes are painful. Did they include those who walk or cycle for their commutes?

Its fairly evident there are a lot of people for whom WFH suits very well and they refuse to even acknowledge that there may be some drawbacks to it. Its like they take it as a personal attack on their chances of keeping WFH in the long run if somebody else says they don't enjoy it.

Anonymou

Deleted User wrote: »

To answer your points in the order they were given

• Friends & family for social interaction. Don't know about the rest of ye but my work colleagues are just that, colleagues, nothing more
• Phone, email, webchat message (Teams/Slack etc)
• Relationships? You work together, you're not getting married to each other. I think you might be referring to familiarity and I'll counter with a recent example of a project I worked on with people from 3 continents, all remotely. Catching up, having a joke, chit chat etc was the norm prior to each Teams meeting kicking off. Its no different to what happens in person

Just on the points above, I think most people make great friends through work. For example, starting out as a grad in many companies with a load of others in the same boat can often feel like an extension of college, and you are doing a lot of working and socialising together. Even as you get older you will have worked alongside and spent significant amounts of time with people, often more than you ever would with most of you friends and family so I think it would be a bit difficult to not build up some great friendships through this. You can exchange niceties with someone over a Zoom but that is about it. (I am very much pro-WFH btw and the advantages overall definitely weigh in it's favour, I just think the point on friends in the workplace shouldn't be understated)

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

Lack of interruptions and of course, google, some jobs are far better suited for individual working. WFH of course helps in these situations.
On the other hand, some team meetings from time to time really help to ensure everyone knows which way is up.

We would have a team meeting for 15 mins every day.

average_runner

hmmm wrote: »

You can have decent Internet and see an outage.

What happens then?

Not such a problem if you're within reach of the office, a big problem if you're not.

Lots to consider in this new world.

Use your phone to get an connection. Have a dongle as a backup!!!


What would you do in work if you have an outage?

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

To answer your points in the order they were given

• Friends & family for social interaction. Don't know about the rest of ye but my work colleagues are just that, colleagues, nothing more
• Phone, email, webchat message (Teams/Slack etc)
• Relationships? You work together, you're not getting married to each other. I think you might be referring to familiarity and I'll counter with a recent example of a project I worked on with people from 3 continents, all remotely. Catching up, having a joke, chit chat etc was the norm prior to each Teams meeting kicking off. Its no different to what happens in person
• Bonding, again, are you looking to marry some of these people? Working well together has not been an issue I've come across in my career. Sure there are assholes, there are always assholes and there have been great bosses and crap bosses, the WFH experience is no different in this regard, but bonding, come on.

I am a fan for working from home but I will address the above:


Slack etc, people can ignore these easily. So can take longer to get a simple response!!!


When I said bonding and relationships, when you are in the office you get to know your team personally, if enables to know when something is wrong.
By knowing the above you know the best approach per team member.


Bonding is when we go to the pub together, lunches together, sport at lunchtime etc. It builds up morale in the team.



Some people have no connection with their team and that is fair enough, but not good for the team.

average_runner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Strange how they assume that all commutes are painful. Did they include those who walk or cycle for their commutes?

Amount of complaining on the cycle forum about cycling to work, its no fun either.

How can walking to work be enjoyable with all the fumes in the city? Surely working from home could enable you to get out for a nice cleaner walk and cycle at that.

recyclops

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Strange how they assume that all commutes are painful. Did they include those who walk or cycle for their commutes?

You expect a bit of nuance from something in the pro WFH brigade :D:D

Majority of people are selfish, its perfect for them so it must be some kind of Heaven, regardless of the very clear and obvious downfalls that have been raised, because they aren't impacted it cant be that big a deal.

When this all kicked off I had said I missed my commute ( approx 40-50 mins a day each way). I missed listening to podcasts and I was finding I had too much time when I finished work. You would swear I had ****e on peoples desks with the responses I got, it was my problem and I must be in some kind of rut or mid life crisis or I just need to go out and find new hobbies, Nobody knew my own situation which was just home from honeymoon and delighted to be spending a lot of time at home with my new wife.

12 months on I still very much love my wife, I still have feel I have too much time in the day ( only so much golf, running, walking, swimming you can do before you end up back on the couch or injured) and I still very much miss my commute.

I am not in a rut or a mid life crises I just don't believe WFH is the best thing since sliced bread.

hots

recyclops wrote: »

You expect a bit of nuance from something in the pro WFH brigade :D:D

Majority of people are selfish, its perfect for them so it must be some kind of Heaven, regardless of the very clear and obvious downfalls that have been raised, because they aren't impacted it cant be that big a deal.

When this all kicked off I had said I missed my commute ( approx 40-50 mins a day each way). I missed listening to podcasts and I was finding I had too much time when I finished work. You would swear I had ****e on peoples desks with the responses I got, it was my problem and I must be in some kind of rut or mid life crisis or I just need to go out and find new hobbies, Nobody knew my own situation which was just home from honeymoon and delighted to be spending a lot of time at home with my new wife.

12 months on I still very much love my wife, I still have feel I have too much time in the day ( only so much golf, running, walking, swimming you can do before you end up back on the couch or injured) and I still very much miss my commute.

I am not in a rut or a mid life crises I just don't believe WFH is the best thing since sliced bread.

I think the response to people missing their commute was pretty much that youi're free to replicate that as you please when wfh, go for a stroll nearby every morning before work or go and stand in the corner and face the wall if it's a cramped luas that you miss

Antares35

hots wrote: »

...stand in the corner and face the wall if it's a cramped luas that you miss

Don't forget if you miss the anti-social element and the risk of assault, go out and pick a fight with someone. And if you miss catching colds and flu on it all the time just ask someone to sit beside you sneezing. Also, every so often, get your neighbour to drive you really far away from your house and throw you out of the car. The walk back home will remind you of all the times the Luas just stopped working and threw everyone out at black horse, where all the buses and taxis were full

hmmm

recyclops wrote: »

When this all kicked off I had said I missed my commute ( approx 40-50 mins a day each way). I missed listening to podcasts and I was finding I had too much time when I finished work. You would swear I had ****e on peoples desks with the responses I got

I don't think it was meant as anything personal, but a lot of people who are enjoying WFH are concerned that they will be forced back into the office for what they think are spurious reasons. If companies decide to go back because "some people miss commuting" and "they think they have too much time" you can imagine the reaction from those who don't enjoy their commute or having lots of extra time. Personally I don't want to have to go back because "Margaret" misses chatting with me and everyone else who was forced to listen to her, we really didn't enjoy her views on Love Island as much as she thought we did.

zebastein

Everyone's circumstances are different (role, commute...) but also everyone's character is different.


In the same role, same team, there will be people who are really good at working on their own, organizing themselves, going through their task with a minimum of interactions. There are people who are more team-workers and that are very good at having ideas when brainstorming in a room on a whiteboard with other people, and who see less natural opportunities of doing so in a remote environment. I had some colleagues who are not good at focusing and that need the constant pressure of the office so that they can work without taking too many breaks.

And on the social element, some people have a lot of hobbies and friends and do not feel the need of having deeper relationships with their colleagues. On the other side, people who moved in Dublin recently can use it as an opportunity to make new friends. Some companies with a young workforce in their 20s, especially the ones with a lot of foreigners who just moved in, have a great atmosphere and people may be looking for this. It is probably less true if you are in your 40s/50s and have already your life settled. I believe in WFH, but post-covid if you want to see more people that just your wife and kids in the week days, that means that you should know how to meet people in your community. It is a balance to find, but I understand why people who do not know anyone or who live in a dormitory town with not much happening prefer going to work.

Antares35

It's true, and depends what kind of management style you're used to too. If someone is used to being micromanaged then it can be an abyss if you're suddenly working on your own. I've spent years studying part time while working full time, so I've just learned the best ways to be disciplined and work to a very strict timetable. I'll still set a timetable, goals etc for myself WFH, because it's how I reach my max. I've also learned to value working in peace and quiet and on my own initiative. There's nobody standing over you with a stick beating you up into studying, but you know you have to get on with it if you want to succeed.

Re social element, I feel sorry for people who are feeling the isolation and I think a lot of it is compounded by lockdown - probably if going out for lunch or meeting a friend in the evening for a pint was allowed, the WFH scenario might not seem so dire for some. But, the flip side is, if my manager turned around tomorrow and said listen we all need to come back in and resume our two hour commute and miss out on the work life balance and increased productivity we've experienced because Dorris in Accounting misses the chats, I know what I'd say!

AdamD

zebastein wrote: »

Everyone's circumstances are different (role, commute...) but also everyone's character is different.


In the same role, same team, there will be people who are really good at working on their own, organizing themselves, going through their task with a minimum of interactions. There are people who are more team-workers and that are very good at having ideas when brainstorming in a room on a whiteboard with other people, and who see less natural opportunities of doing so in a remote environment. I had some colleagues who are not good at focusing and that need the constant pressure of the office so that they can work without taking too many breaks.

And on the social element, some people have a lot of hobbies and friends and do not feel the need of having deeper relationships with their colleagues. On the other side, people who moved in Dublin recently can use it as an opportunity to make new friends. Some companies with a young workforce in their 20s, especially the ones with a lot of foreigners who just moved in, have a great atmosphere and people may be looking for this. It is probably less true if you are in your 40s/50s and have already your life settled. I believe in WFH, but post-covid if you want to see more people that just your wife and kids in the week days, that means that you should know how to meet people in your community. It is a balance to find, but I understand why people who do not know anyone or who live in a dormitory town with not much happening prefer going to work.

This comment comes up every time and implies that people who enjoy the social aspect of their work must not have social lives otherwise, its complete nonsense. I have a very active social life, but sitting in my bedroom from 9-5 every day with no in-person social interaction is grim to me.

Agree with everything else you said though, its personal preference.

Though areas like onboarding of new staff, building of teams etc. are definitely hurt by WFH. I also think we haven't seen the full reality of it as most of us are working in teams which were already established in person, before we went remote.

recyclops

hmmm wrote: »

I don't think it was meant as anything personal, but a lot of people who are enjoying WFH are concerned that they will be forced back into the office for what they think are spurious reasons. If companies decide to go back because "some people miss commuting" and "they think they have too much time" you can imagine the reaction from those who don't enjoy their commute or having lots of extra time. Personally I don't want to have to go back because "Margaret" misses chatting with me and everyone else who was forced to listen to her, we really didn't enjoy her views on Love Island as much as she thought we did.

Absolutely agree, its why there needs to be leeway on both sides, I myself know my situation should not be enough to warrant a change in company policy but same is said for those who are threatening to quit if they don't get what they want because now they know they can do their job at home.

Antares35

AdamD wrote: »

This comment comes up every time and implies that people who enjoy the social aspect of their work must not have social lives otherwise, its complete nonsense.

Good point and I agree. It's as nonsensical as the other side of the coin where people imply that those of us who like working from home are some kinds of hermits who don't want to go out and interact with others.

AdamD

AdamD wrote: »

This comment comes up every time and implies that people who enjoy the social aspect of their work must not have social lives otherwise, its complete nonsense. I have a very active social life, but sitting in my bedroom from 9-5 every day with no in-person social interaction is grim to me.

Agree with everything else you said though, its personal preference.

Though areas like onboarding of new staff, building of teams etc. are definitely hurt by WFH. I also think we haven't seen the full reality of it as most of us are working in teams which were already established in person, before we went remote.

If you’re working in your bedroom I’m not surprised you want to return to the office. I love WFH and will continue to do so other than 2 or 3 days every couple of weeks. But if I were working in my bedroom would be a whole different story

average_runner

recyclops wrote: »

Absolutely agree, its why there needs to be leeway on both sides, I myself know my situation should not be enough to warrant a change in company policy but same is said for those who are threatening to quit if they don't get what they want because now they know they can do their job at home.

But people will always quit if they don't get what they want. Why would you work somewhere if unhappy?

There will be desks for people who want to be in the office, younger group will want to be in the office, which is fair enough

recyclops

Deleted User wrote: »

If you’re working in your bedroom I’m not surprised you want to return to the office. I love WFH and will continue to do so other than 2 or 3 days every couple of weeks. But if I were working in my bedroom would be a whole different story

You'd be surprised the amount of people who dont have proper set ups, its funny that due to the nature of my own job, I am on a call with 20 other people in similar roles across the uk and ireland in similar MNC regarding WFH impacts and future planning/ ideas for rollouts of solutions.

Dont worry WFH Zealots I wont be mentioning my commute :D. Its going to be an interesting few calls id imagine.

recyclops

average_runner wrote: »

But people will always quit if they don't get what they want. Why would you work somewhere if unhappy?

There will be desks for people who want to be in the office, younger group will want to be in the office, which is fair enough

You shouldnt at all, but are they only happy in your job because they're sitting in their house, why didnt they leave earlier?

average_runner

recyclops wrote: »

You'd be surprised the amount of people who dont have proper set ups, its funny that due to the nature of my own job, I am on a call with 20 other people in similar roles across the uk and ireland in similar MNC regarding WFH impacts and future planning/ ideas for rollouts of solutions.

Dont worry WFH Zealots I wont be mentioning my commute :D. Its going to be an interesting few calls id imagine.

Alot of companies have the solution in place. Did their homework last summer and are ready to go to meet their employee needs

FlubberJones

Bored senseless working from home, when I can return I'll return to the office with haste. I can walk to the office and appreciate the fact that there is a canteen and good coffee available, neither are at home. Spending time preparing lunch / breakfast is a hindrance and preferable on a weekend... Roll on the end of WFH.

recyclops

average_runner wrote: »

Alot of companies have the solution in place. Did their homework last summer and are ready to go to meet their employee needs

yep we were one of them, sadly due to a number of different factors not everyone can avail of these solutions, some staff don't have space in their shared rental property for the desks, chairs etc we provide.