Working From Home Megathread

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

I'm seeing some interesting stuff happening in the tech jobs market as people are beginning to jump ship in increasing numbers to companies with more flexible WFH offerings. It's always been an industry with a fair amount of turnover, but some of the people I'm seeing move now would not be your typical leavers. It's a once-off realignment in the industry I think.

It's interesting to me also that there seems to have been a bit of a mindset shift since the beginning of the year. Last year the assumption was that WFH was the aberration, and going back to the office was normal. Now even from the people who have indicated previously they wanted to go back to the office, their preferences seem to have shifted much more towards WFH and less to the office - the "3 days in the office and 2 at home" group have become more "2 and 3", or even "1 and 4" - and even that 1 day they are finding hard to justify as to why they are doing it.

I think everyone acknowledges that the social side is a problem, but the genie is out of the bottle - there will be very few companies where the "old" days of everyone being on site and the craic that comes with that (occasionally). I don't know what the answer is because everyone just WFH sounds very sterile, but I think a lot of people (management and employees) are questioning the purpose of everyone heading into an office.

Yes the genie is most definitely out of the bottle, it will be interesting to see how some of the "traditional" companies fare in trying to force their staff back to the desks.
Goldman Sacks (well their CEO) have already decided that WFH is "an aberration" and expect all to be back at their desks as soon as legally possible.
How many employees voting with their feet will it take for a change of heart?

Marcusm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes the genie is most definitely out of the bottle, it will be interesting to see how some of the "traditional" companies fare in trying to force their staff back to the desks.
Goldman Sacks (well their CEO) have already decided that WFH is "an aberration" and expect all to be back at their desks as soon as legally possible.
How many employees voting with their feet will it take for a change of heart?

His focus is on front office staff and most of them will want to be back in the office anyway. In FICC (markets/trading) it’s necessary for control but also to be in the flow of information. For investment banking staff, presenteeism has always been a problem as not being seen and not making an impressions means you are forgotten. As with most bulge bracket banks, this accounts for less than a 1/3 of staff and many of the others will be permitted to wfh but, in many cases, they will be increasingly automated and staff numbers reduced.

AndrewJRenko

the explorer wrote: »

Does anyone know is there any plan for civil service employees to return to the office over the summer? Will it be down to individual offices or willl there be a central plan, there is a skeleton crew in my office, most of whom seem to want to be there instead of at home. Everything is working fine aside from the lack of social interaction among teams.

I wonder will they give a months notice or will it be more like 2 weeks or so?
Or perhaps they will just be so cautious and not bring us back at all, anticipating another rise in cases in the autumn.

I'm hearing September, but with no details as to whether this is optional or compulsory or full time or part time or what.

Ms. Newbie18

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm hearing September, but with no details as to whether this is optional or compulsory or full time or part time or what.

I've heard same for private sector. My team lead has said they're going to leave it up to us to decide if we want to go back in FT or not. Though if the whole company decides they want to WFH FT I believe they will insist on everyone doing 2-4 days on site a month.

wes

hmmm wrote: »

I think everyone acknowledges that the social side is a problem, but the genie is out of the bottle

Where I work, they are setting up groups around various interests e.g. gaming, reading, sports etc, and are allowing us to use work time to organize online meet ups. So I guess for those who like gaming, people could get together and play a game online and do it on company time, which is pretty nice.

Esse85

So who's back to the office tomorrow and how are you feeling about it?

_Kaiser_

Esse85 wrote: »

So who's back to the office tomorrow and how are you feeling about it?

Moved jobs recently as I mentioned a few pages back but so far the only ones onsite are those that have to be there for the nature of the work they do.

Me I don't even live anywhere near the job and they knew that when they hired me, but know that my intention is to relocate when I can find somewhere (with the rental market and restrictions I'm guessing this will be late summer at the earliest).

That said, I am going to take a spin in on Friday to meet some of my new team in person, sit down with the new boss and CEO for a chat and get a feel for the place in general. I wasn't asked to do this mind but I think it makes sense.

I fully plan to only be in an office maybe 2 days a week when things do go back to normal. There's just no reason for me to be onsite every day, and the nature of my job is such that I'll usually get more done WFH anyway.

The only benefit I see being talked of here is the social aspect, which has no interest for me. Firstly I'm a department manager so that comes with a need to maintain a certain distance anyway, but also I have responsibilities/my son that I'll be spending my free time with anyway - bar maybe an hour or two at some work functions to show my face as it were.

Absolute Zero

So just got told in our morning zoom that management are talking about return to office in September, Because of something 'Leo' said? a quick google revealed nothing Leo said about returning to office, infact he seems to be pro WFH.


I'm working for public sector and I know by the silence from the group that everyone else is feeling the same about returning to the office. Nothing else said about hybrid or anything just that. Kind of get the feeling the management are trying to justify their positions by lording it over the staff in the office which they can't do when they are WFH.

I also know the productivity is very good right now. For one I wont be working as hard as I am now at home if I am asked to go back to the office that's for sure.

NIMAN

We have no plans to return to the office until July at the very earliest, but most suspect it will be more likely September.

namloc1980

We have been told it is 3 days at home and 2 days in the office when we return. This is for the long term and even when Covid is a distant memory the plan is 3 days at home a week. Happy out and is a good balance.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

We have been told it is 3 days at home and 2 days in the office when we return. This is for the long term and even when Covid is a distant memory the plan is 3 days at home a week. Happy out and is a good balance.

I think that is where most will land, and there will be a hell of a lot of pressure on those that don’t (especially in public sector). Seems some just want to wish WFH away.

The sooner the government bring in legislation requiring companies to justify saying no to flexible working request the better

Mrs OBumble

Absolute Zero wrote: »

I know by the silence from the group

You know how people are feeling, even without listening to them? That's some skill you have.

Or is it just projection?

Absolute Zero

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You know how people are feeling, even without listening to them? That's some skill you have.

Or is it just projection?

Passive-Aggressive much there love? Go out and get some fresh air you'll feel better.

A Shaved Duck?

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You know how people are feeling, even without listening to them? That's some skill you have.

Or is it just projection?

Cant agree more, some negative attitude towards both management and the role itself.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You know how people are feeling, even without listening to them? That's some skill you have.

Or is it just projection?

Sometimes, silence can reveal more than you can ever imagine, they're not exactly cheering about the prospect of being back in the office full time either.

Vocal disapproval may have been detrimental at the time, there may be a lot of individuals requesting to continue WFH in some form or other.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Vocal disapproval may have been detrimental at the time, there may be a lot of individuals requesting to continue WFH in some form or other.

Sure.

And there may be others who want to go back, but are scared to say so cos they know other colleagues don't want to.

And there will be some still sanitising their groceries and too scared to leave the house.

Most teams of any size will have the whole range of reactions.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sure.

And there may be others who want to go back, but are scared to say so cos they know other colleagues don't want to.

And there will be some still sanitising their groceries and too scared to leave the house.

Most teams of any size will have the whole range of reactions.

And in the new world they all need to catered for. And any company that doesn’t or won’t needs to up its game

ELM327

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sure.

And there may be others who want to go back, but are scared to say so cos they know other colleagues don't want to.

And there will be some still sanitising their groceries and too scared to leave the house.

Most teams of any size will have the whole range of reactions.

And of course the first line is you, because you need your middle manager job to exist - and that's predicated on presenteeism.

2lazytogetup

employers should love this wfh.

It means employees can dual task on calls, do work in the background. more productive. no longer unproductive staff daydreaming in actual meeting rooms.

commuting times are no longer saved, employees are just busy working those extra 2 hours that were spent commuting.

People on this forum are going on about the virtues of it. people working really hard don't have time to post here so they are not representative here.

Antares35

2lazytogetup wrote: »

commuting times are no longer saved, employees are just busy working those extra 2 hours that were spent commuting.

Is it not better to work them than commute them?

namloc1980

2lazytogetup wrote: »

employers should love this wfh.

It means employees can dual task on calls, do work in the background. more productive. no longer unproductive staff daydreaming in actual meeting rooms.

commuting times are no longer saved, employees are just busy working those extra 2 hours that were spent commuting.

People on this forum are going on about the virtues of it. people working really hard don't have time to post here so they are not representative here.

Are they? Do you have stats to support this? My company are virtually all WFH and while I'm sure there are people putting in extra hours, the vast majority I have dealt with are working their normal hours (including myself)!

2lazytogetup

2lazytogetup wrote: »

employers should love this wfh.

It means employees can dual task on calls, do work in the background. more productive. no longer unproductive staff daydreaming in actual meeting rooms.

commuting times are no longer saved, employees are just busy working those extra 2 hours that were spent commuting.

People on this forum are going on about the virtues of it. people working really hard don't have time to post here so they are not representative here.

I creatively dont spend my commuting time working. Why would you do that?

Many seem to not be able to manage their time outside of an office environment. And that’s on them

Antares35

namloc1980 wrote: »

Are they? Do you have stats to support this? My company are virtually all WFH and while I'm sure there are people putting in extra hours, the vast majority I have dealt with are working their normal hours (including myself)!

It also gives great flexibility not having the commuting time. I'm saving the equivalent of 1.5 working days every week. Even if I only work half of my previous commute time, it's a win for both my employer and me.

BrianD3

This may seem off topic but I don't think it is - looks like the conference/junket circuit is starting up again. EPA Climate Change Conference 23-24th June in the Aviva with no mention of this being delivered online.

http://www.epa.ie/newsandevents/events/epaclimatechangeconference2021.html

Pre Covid, many senior public servants spent a large proportion of their time attending events such as this. Often learning very little at them and were there mainly for the free croissants and dinner, to claim generous travel/subsistence and to escape the office. They are likely to be the same type of manager who will want more junior staff back in the office fulltime, operating fax machines and printing out 4 copies of emails for the file - and never allowing them to attend any event.

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

And in the new world they all need to catered for. And any company that doesn’t or won’t needs to up its game

Well a company that wants staff to work from home mostly, will have no staff issues, it be easier for them to hire

Mr.S

Mr.S wrote: »

I think we're in the last 6 months of conferences being online, it's big business and they all want it F2F rather than online, for obvious reasons.

On a recent zoom call we were presented with how some conference teams coped during covid. They invested heavily in tech solutions, built out entire experiences and pulled in a lot of additional folks from around the company to answer queries from attendants. The end result, engagement went from 100+ to 1000+ with direct users of the products. This led to increased sales, contacts, leads, etc.

I thin, for my place at least, in future conferences are going to be a 2 stream approach, with far more money and resources going into the online element.

Mr.S wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how business travel reacts in Q4 '2021 and beyond - certainly in our place the intention is to get back traveling as soon as it's safe to do so.

On the same call, the CEO of my place basically stated the amount of business travel done before will never be reached again. The tech has proven itself and the savings alone from sending VP's all over the world on a regular basis adds up to a pretty penny.

From a shareholder perspective, it makes no sense to spend that money on travel and they would struggle to justify it into the future. They will still do business travel, just probably at 10-20% of the level previously done.

I think airlines are going to be in for a rough few years ahead in terms of recovery where the business traveler makes up a chunk of their revenue. The likes of Ryanair/Southwest will be ok, but I can see BA, Aer Lingus, Lufthansa etc taking a hit

BrianD3

Deleted User wrote: »

On the same call, the CEO of my place basically stated the amount of business travel done before will never be reached again. The tech has proven itself and the savings alone from sending VP's all over the world on a regular basis adds up to a pretty penny.

From a shareholder perspective, it makes no sense to spend that money on travel and they would struggle to justify it into the future. They will still do business travel, just probably at 10-20% of the level previously done.

That is good to hear. I'm not sure if there is a certain culture around travel in the private sector, in the public sector it is just one aspect of a weird culture which causes a fair amount of tension.

Not so much travel "junkets" to New York, more a case of some people regularly attending events of dubious benefit in some hotel in Mullingar etc., claiming per diem expenses and getting a chicken dinner handed to them.

Meanwhile, those back in the office who are carrying the can might be "allowed" to travel somewhere once every couple of years, give the child some sweets if he behaves himself. There has been a similar attitude to "granting" WFH to staff - a global pandemic where the public health guidelines have consistently advised WFH yet there was an attitude that WFH is a privilege.

MrMusician18

BrianD3 wrote: »

This may seem off topic but I don't think it is - looks like the conference/junket circuit is starting up again. EPA Climate Change Conference 23-24th June in the Aviva with no mention of this being delivered online.

http://www.epa.ie/newsandevents/events/epaclimatechangeconference2021.html

Pre Covid, many senior public servants spent a large proportion of their time attending events such as this. Often learning very little at them and were there mainly for the free croissants and dinner, to claim generous travel/subsistence and to escape the office. They are likely to be the same type of manager who will want more junior staff back in the office fulltime, operating fax machines and printing out 4 copies of emails for the file - and never allowing them to attend any event.

I thought it odd that the EPA of all orgs would be so quick to have an in person event, but you can see in the graphic that it is online. The 2019 event was in the Aviva.

I would have any tears if the conference junket circuit didn't come back post pandemic. There are too many vested interests that want it back though, no matter how expensive they are and how little value they add.

Frank Bullitt

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You know how people are feeling, even without listening to them? That's some skill you have.

Or is it just projection?

You know you can listen to people who WFH, or have an inkling of the mood of a team without being in their physical presence. :rolleyes:

BrianD3

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I thought it odd that the EPA of all orgs would be so quick to have an in person event, but you can see in the graphic that it is online. The 2019 event was in the Aviva.

I would have any tears if the conference junket circuit didn't come back post pandemic. There are too many vested interests that want it back though, no matter how expensive they are and how little value they add.

Thanks, my bad. I have edited my other post where I had a second swipe at the EPA. I initially heard about the conference via a mailing list which didn't have the graphic saying it was online.