Working From Home Megathread

J Mysterio

moycullen14 wrote: »

I think Esse and me must be workmates! Or else these annoyances exist in most workplaces. We seem to put up with an awful lot of crap.

Who you trying to get crazy with Esse?
Don't you know I'm loco?

moycullen14

Dilbert nails it

https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-05-08

Beasty

Threads merged

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh Please, don't try the old "they can't WFH" guff again, we all know that there are a huge number of jobs that are not possible to do outside of theire respective workplaces.

So you agree that statements about the death of business parks are irrelevant?

What I read on this thread are people who are old and wealthy enough to have ample office space in their homes, advocating for work practices which make their companies unattractive to young house-sharing people. Good luck with that one.

BrianD3

BrianD3 wrote: »

It is absurd. I well remember last summer when I was ordered back to the office against public health guidelines to do the exact same work as I had been doing at home. Well not the exact same - I also had to spend time doing unproductive "work" consisting of sanitising my hands before and after I touched anything as per H&S rules.

Anyhow, one afternoon I was unnecessarily sitting in my office doing work I could have been doing at home. I had a zoom call which ran past hometime. The other people on the call didn't care as they were all WFH, I was the only one who had a commute (and a big one at that) ahead of me.

I remember thinking that if that ever happened again, I would immediately leave the call on the dot of hometime no matter what was happening in the meeting at the time. Public sector - so best of luck to anyone trying to get at me over doing that.

The attitude to WFH from some employers during the pandemic has caused a tremendous amount of bad feeling. This won't be forgotten and IMO increases the chance of employees being demotivated, awkward and inflexible. Good will and trust has been lost. If the right to request remote working legalisation has any teeth, the WRC may well be swamped - which would have been less likely had goodwill been maintained during the pandemic

Your post just triggered a thought and it's not targeted at you nor anyone else on the thread tbh. Whether it's WFH or switching off (within reason) or anything else, I really, really hope more people start standing up for themselves when it comes to employment conditions over the next few years.
I've had pretty much nothing but positive experiences and in most companies I could have moved to heard positive things from the guys there. But seeing and hearing what other people go through and put up with really gets my goat at times.

One could say your complaint about staying a bit after 5 is a bit petty if taken in isolation but I think the point, as is often the case, comes down to consideration. I've stayed after my time's done to suit someone in the states, in another job I'd start early if I had to work with someone in China. There was no big "Woo! Go you!" but an acknowledgement that that's how it goes. On occasion I might be 15 minutes late back from lunch and nothing would be said. That's just how we did things. If any of us came in late nothing was said and we'd make the time up. Give and take and common sense are beautiful things.

The alternative is box-ticking nonsense that'll end up with similar hours worked but less work done. I always think of one person who got a bus 2 hours before her work started. On a Friday she could be at her desk at 8.10 for a 9am start. However the company was super "professional" and the clock didn't start til 9. So she sat at her desk til 9 on her phone or reading before even checking emails because **** 'em.
A tiny little bit of cop on from management and she could have been home an hour earlier every Friday for zero loss of productivity. In fact there could be a slight gain depending on who was waiting to hear back from her first thing in the morning Irish time.
Again, give and take and maybe aside from box-ticking managers everyone can be better off.

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What I read on this thread are people who are old and wealthy enough to have ample office space in their homes, advocating for work practices which make their companies unattractive to young house-sharing people. Good luck with that one.

The person in our office making the most noise about getting everyone back in is elderly, and lives in a big house in a nice, leafy suburb with just her husband. She never misses an opportunity to let us know she "isn't working for the money". She's been in the office throughout. One can only assume it's loneliness that drives her.

I am renting, and don't have a dedicated office space. I still support the idea of a flexible model which gives people the choice to WFH if they can. I'm neither old or wealthy!

Every job I ever worked in I've had conference calls with people either in the very same room or at least in the same building. Offices should have being becoming more and more redundant over the years but most employers had a hard time trusting employees until they were forced to.

I still think a lot of employers will quickly forbid working from home shortly after its ok to return to offices.

moycullen14

It's going to be fascinating to see how this all plays out.

There's probably as many people who want to WFH as there are people how absolutely don't. Employers would be the same. To some extent, the reasons are irrelevant. Some may be related to the effectiveness of the organisation and its operation but lots will be what seems like trivial stuff: wanting to get out of the house, boredom, loneliness, stinginess with the tea, whatever. Who is to say that my reason for wanting WFH is better/worse than your reasons for wanting to come back to the office?

One thing that IS different is that those who want to back to the office will want others to join them while those that want to WFH don't care that others will be in the office. That's going to be the pull that gets lots of us back into the office, especially if those who want to go back are in senior positions.

My guess is that pull to go back will get stronger and stronger as time goes by. Hope I'm wrong.

Frank Bullitt

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Business parks exist to facilitate manufacturing: you aren't going to have a clean-room in your WFH location.

No, no they don't. Not all business parks have trucks and factories on every corner.

Go to East Point in Dublin, you won't see any manufacturing there. You will see Facebook, HSBC and Dutche Bank etc.

Frank Bullitt

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you agree that statements about the death of business parks are irrelevant?

What I read on this thread are people who are old and wealthy enough to have ample office space in their homes, advocating for work practices which make their companies unattractive to young house-sharing people. Good luck with that one.

Sounds like you are getting a business park and industrial park confused.

And I would love to know how you gathered that people who want to WFH are wealthy, as opposed to just happy with WFH and enjoy that balance.

moycullen14

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you agree that statements about the death of business parks are irrelevant?

What I read on this thread are people who are old and wealthy enough to have ample office space in their homes, advocating for work practices which make their companies unattractive to young house-sharing people. Good luck with that one.

So you want to drag me out of my 5 bedroomed detached house with a lovely WFH setup, industrial coffee maker, and beautiful garden so some feckless kid can have 'company', 'after work pints' and 'enjoy the crack'? See where this is going?

Antares35

moycullen14 wrote: »

So you want to drag me out of my 5 bedroomed detached house with a lovely WFH setup, industrial coffee maker, and beautiful garden so some feckless kid can have 'company', 'after work pints' and 'enjoy the crack'? See where this is going?

Don't forget also that retailers have suffered from a loss in captive trade. So we must now all do a five day commute so Joe can sell his overpriced coffees and sandwiches again. It will certainly make me feel better thinking about Joe's business as I sit in traffic for 90 minutes every evening with two tired and whingeing babies in the back

wes

moycullen14 wrote: »

So you want to drag me out of my 5 bedroomed detached house with a lovely WFH setup, industrial coffee maker, and beautiful garden so some feckless kid can have 'company', 'after work pints' and 'enjoy the crack'? See where this is going?

Also, the "kid" can probably have an easier time affording a nicer place further away from the office.

Dyr

Actually one of the things WFH has made clear to me is how soul destroying modern office culture is

My team are an informal bunch and we're segregated away from the main office space so we tended just to relax and behave like normal humans but when I think about how guarded and fake office interactions have become in the last five to ten years I don't get get how anyone could consider it "social", it's not.

I'd used to take lunch breaks with the building maintenance staff in my place, cleaners, porters etc just because it was so much more relaxed being around people who werent always in office mode.

plodder

Our local pub has set up one of those mobile coffee vending units outside and it has become a new focal point for the village. I'd like to think it will still be there after all the restrictions are removed and some people stay WFH for some of the week going forward. It's swings and roundabouts. Business goes down in one place and up somewhere else.

Naos

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you agree that statements about the death of business parks are irrelevant?

What I read on this thread are people who are old and wealthy enough to have ample office space in their homes, advocating for work practices which make their companies unattractive to young house-sharing people. Good luck with that one.

I think you'll find those who want to return to the office, tend to want everyone to return to the office.

Those who want to continue WFH, tend to not care if some people want to go back to the office so long as they can continue to WFH.

Naos

plodder wrote: »

Our local pub has set up one of those mobile coffee vending units outside and it has become a new focal point for the village. I'd like to think it will still be there after all the restrictions are removed and some people stay WFH for some of the week going forward. It's swings and roundabouts. Business goes down in one place and up somewhere else.

Just to add to this - do you think the people working in Spar or Coffee Shops in the city centre can afford to rent in the City Centre?

Not a chance, they're getting on buses in the pissing rain just so they can go and serve a coffee in the city.

WFH contiunes, coffee shop opens in their locality, they have the experience, they get the job with no commute. Their life is enriched.

J Mysterio

Bambi wrote: »

Actually one of the things WFH has made clear to me is how soul destroying modern office culture is

My team are an informal bunch and we're segregated away from the main office space so we tended just to relax and behave like normal humans but when I think about how guarded and fake office interactions have become in the last five to ten years I don't get get how anyone could consider it "social", it's not.

I'd used to take lunch breaks with the building maintenance staff in my place, cleaners, porters etc just because it was so much more relaxed being around people who werent always in office mode.

In my last job our manager always took lunch with our team. He was an angry, passive aggressive arsəhole with a big ego, and it was a pain making chit chat with him. His stories were always some form of 'oh that's interesting, but I did the same thing a little better' kind of thing. Over time most of us found alternative arrangements (going out for lunch/ eating at the desk/ taking 'late' or 'early' lunches).

Glad to have moved on, and glad to avoid the office altogether to be honest.

irelandpride

Some people have the attitude in this s thread that since the employer is paying your salary you should bend over backwards and do whatever they want you do going by this thread.

My attitude is your paying for my skillset and your lucky to have me. I'll move to another company if you treat me like crap with no regrets.

Company I'm in now have no set date on us coming back and have to be on-site two days a week after Covid is over which I'm okay with. We definitly won't be back till the over 30s get their vacinne.

Christy42

There are a few things I miss from the office. Easier to grab someone and get something done they have been avoiding or busy with. Easier to bring new starters on board. Even if I wasn't a big fan of afterwork pints I miss not going at least occasionally.


That said wfh is 1000 times better. No commute is great for work/life balance. It makes doing any overtime a lot easier. Especially if I am just running something I only need to keep a vague eye over since I am already home once it is done or simply doing other things if I am not required at the desk when code is running. Places I worked had shower facilities but it is still nicer to be able to exercise in your own home and then shower at home during lunch. No need for spare clothes since you have your wardrobe.

Decentralisation was a massive failure back in the day. I wonder if this could help get some of the benefits as people work from further afield.

Finally one thing about wfh pre pandemic was the emphasis on always having someone in the office but it feels easier as an all or nothing since you don't get left out of random meetings.

In any case now the cat is out of the bag and is not going back in. The we can't do it en masse has been shown to be false for most companies and so will be forced to work from home.

Frank Bullitt

Bambi wrote: »

Actually one of the things WFH has made clear to me is how soul destroying modern office culture is

My team are an informal bunch and we're segregated away from the main office space so we tended just to relax and behave like normal humans but when I think about how guarded and fake office interactions have become in the last five to ten years I don't get get how anyone could consider it "social", it's not.

I'd used to take lunch breaks with the building maintenance staff in my place, cleaners, porters etc just because it was so much more relaxed being around people who werent always in office mode.

This.

My last place had a horrific office culture, it was all based on this idea of "community" and it was super forced and fake. It was also very disruptive to actually getting work done, especially when you have people treating it like a club and just talk about avocado toast and the latest in cancel culture.

Once covid hit, and being in my own space, my productivity went up just from not being around idiots like that.

plodder

plodder wrote: »

Our local pub has set up one of those mobile coffee vending units outside and it has become a new focal point for the village. I'd like to think it will still be there after all the restrictions are removed and some people stay WFH for some of the week going forward. It's swings and roundabouts. Business goes down in one place and up somewhere else.

This is one of the things that I hope continues and might provide some much needed additional revenue to village pubs. In that period of relaxed restrictiona last year, my uncle's local in Westmeath did a deal for WFH - €15 for the day, with free coffee refils and sandwich & chips It was pretty popular and I would love to see that as a standard across rural Ireland

Ms. Newbie18

Local business near me put in a proper coffee counter with fresh locally sourced baked treats from independent bakers. It's going down really well. Plus more jobs in the area. Great to see.

Re social aspect of work. A few in my office are going to book the same days in-house when we are asked back. That way we can have lunches and work drinks. May do Wednesdays and Fridays 😄. Shouldn't be an issue getting the same days as we are spread across different departments.

Chris_5339762

irelandpride wrote: »

Some people have the attitude in this s thread that since the employer is paying your salary you should bend over backwards and do whatever they want you do going by this thread.

See thats the trouble. There are those of us with very few potential employers out there. Two in all of Cork, actually. Next nearest one in Limerick.


So unfortunately we do not have the ability to resist a belligerent manager. If they say "back in", in you go. No arguments.

brownbinman

Ms. Newbie18 wrote: »

May do Wednesdays and Fridays

May I be so bold as to suggest a Thursday instead of Friday. No point being hungover on your dime. At least if you're WFH you can have your hangover in peace

Ms. Newbie18

brownbinman wrote: »

May I be so bold as to suggest a Thursday instead of Friday. No point being hungover on your dime. At least if you're WFH you can have your hangover in peace

We have learned over the years to keep work drinks to Friday evening. To many showing in late (the drivers) or arriving half cut on bikes :pac:. Best for the sanity and safety of everyone to be hungover on the Saturday

brownbinman

Ms. Newbie18 wrote: »

We have learned over the years to keep work drinks to Friday evening. To many showing in late (the drivers) or arriving half cut on bikes :pac:. Best for the sanity and safety of everyone to be hungover on the Saturday

makes sense, god speed

krissovo

Ms. Newbie18 wrote: »

We have learned over the years to keep work drinks to Friday evening. To many showing in late (the drivers) or arriving half cut on bikes :pac:. Best for the sanity and safety of everyone to be hungover on the Saturday

Work drinks hangovers should be in company time especially now with WFH, I do not want to waste my precious weekend time recovering from a work event.

Lumen

krissovo wrote: »

Work drinks hangovers should be in company time especially now with WFH, I do not want to waste my precious weekend time recovering from a work event.

Do they siphon the alcohol down your throat like a fois gras farmer force feeding fowl?

krissovo

krissovo wrote: »

Work drinks hangovers should be in company time especially now with WFH, I do not want to waste my precious weekend time recovering from a work event.

Agreed. Wednesdays and Thursdays are for work drinks....not Fridays. I don't know when I last went to a work event on a Friday (or at least if I did I was out of there by 8pm). A number of years I think. But happy enough to still be out at 3am on a Friday morning when I have to be in work at 8am.

That could be a throwback from half a career in London though, where work drinks rarely happen on a Friday. The bars and clubs in the City are jammed at 2am on a Friday morning. But on Friday nights you can see the tumbleweed after 10pm.