Working From Home Megathread

Mrs OBumble

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The job should pay based on experience, skill set and scarcity, not location I'd think.

WFH may change the scarcity though: if Donal in Donegal is now a viable candidate for the job, then you may have to work for the rate he would, or lose the job to him.

is_that_so

Companies seem to be looking at fairly imminent return to office, but hybrid approach likely.

More than three quarters of businesses are planning to return employees to their workplaces within the next three months if Government guidelines allow, a new survey by the employer's group Ibec has found.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0516/1221995-return-to-work/

Patsy167

Pleasantly surprised to see this -
Accountants BDO tells staff to work where they want after pandemic
Flexible approach stands in contrast to some professional services groups and banks

https://www.ft.com/content/ce81651a-7451-4781-a9b8-85c96f2c5be0

Patsy167

One slight annoyance when reading the medias coverage of flexible working is the constant focus on how it is killing city centres and is bad for passing trade.

There is never mention that much of this trade has simply shifted to suburbs and rural areas rather than disappeared.

In Dublin alone it would be very easy to run an entire series on new coffee shops and food takeout places that have opened in the past year away from the city centre and are thriving because of WFH. Providing employment to locals etc.

dkav9

What I'd really love is for someone to justify the need for everyone to pile into an office, rather than allowing people to work from home. Meaningless buzzwords like "collaboration" don't cut it

is_that_so

Patsy167 wrote: »

One slight annoyance when reading the medias coverage of flexible working is the constant focus on how it is killing city centres and is bad for passing trade.

There is never mention that much of this trade has simply shifted to suburbs and rural areas rather than disappeared.

In Dublin alone it would be very easy to run an entire series on new coffee shops and food takeout places that have opened in the past year away from the city centre and are thriving because of WFH. Providing employment to locals etc.

The point about it is that city centre businesses often do not have the flexibility to move through leases, physical costs, business models etc. The attractions of such locations is also footfall. If they lose business and have to close that's a cost to the State and loss of rates to councils.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

The point about it is that city centre businesses often do not have the flexibility to move through leases, physical costs, business models etc. The attractions of such locations is also footfall. If they lose business and have to close that's a cost to the State and loss of rates to councils.

Yes, it will be some amount of short term pain, but IMO the reinvention of our city centres and the move of some of this business into suburbs and more outlying areas is only a positive thing

is_that_so

dkav9 wrote: »

What I'd really love is for someone to justify the need for everyone to pile into an office, rather than allowing people to work from home. Meaningless buzzwords like "collaboration" don't cut it

Not everyone is set up mentally nor physically for WFH. Some people work better with access to the water cooler stuff. What we've learnt from all of this is what social creatures we are. A hybrid model can consider the benefits of both options.

Esse85

Patsy167 wrote: »

Pleasantly surprised to see this -
Accountants BDO tells staff to work where they want after pandemic
Flexible approach stands in contrast to some professional services groups and banks

https://www.ft.com/content/ce81651a-7451-4781-a9b8-85c96f2c5be0

That's behind a pay wall we can't access.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, it will be some amount of short term pain, but IMO the reinvention of our city centres and the move of some of this business into suburbs and more outlying areas is only a positive thing

Reinvention is not something that can be forced and it's definitely not short term pain.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

WFH may change the scarcity though: if Donal in Donegal is now a viable candidate for the job, then you may have to work for the rate he would, or lose the job to him.

Donal will also now have a choice of jobs that he can WFH as opposed to having to stay overnight in Dublin during the working week. In this scenario, WFH opens far more doors than it closes, it also provides the empolyer with a much larger pool of prospective candidates for the role.


This has often been a stumbling block for companies that are located "in the sticks" in that few people were willing to drive to the arse end of nowhere to work.

JTMan

hmmm wrote: »

I can't see that being allowed. You might express a preference not to work in the office on a Friday, but you might be told you have to.

All hybrid-policies that I have heard of allow employees choose days to be in the office and days to be at home. i.e. the employer does not micro manage what days people must come into the office.

It's a trade off. Create lots of rules as to who must be in the office on Fridays etc and therefore ensure more office utilization or allow employees freedom to choose days. I think the latter will occur in more cases than the former.

Esse85

Patsy167 wrote: »

One slight annoyance when reading the medias coverage of flexible working is the constant focus on how it is killing city centres and is bad for passing trade.

There is never mention that much of this trade has simply shifted to suburbs and rural areas rather than disappeared.

In Dublin alone it would be very easy to run an entire series on new coffee shops and food takeout places that have opened in the past year away from the city centre and are thriving because of WFH. Providing employment to locals etc.

They never mention the lack of care employers have for their employees by demanding they return to the office to be tied to a desk and chair all day, having commuted up to 90 minutes while being stuck in traffic and avoiding dangerous road acts by other drivers, paying for parking, having minimal kitchen facilities, having to deal with the heating being on full blast because poor Sharon is freezing.

All that unecessary activity creates unhappiness and frustration amongst employees and will not result in them doing their best work. Surely to God to get the best out of an employee you have to support them, consider their personal circumstances and trust them to deliver.

If an employer doesn't trust their staff to do the work required of them WFH, then the real issue is who's recruiting these people.

Antares35

is_that_so wrote: »

Companies seem to be looking at fairly imminent return to office, but hybrid approach likely.



https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0516/1221995-return-to-work/

Hybrid for how long though? It's hard to tell if it's hybrid until "normal" returns or hybrid indefinitely.

is_that_so

Antares35 wrote: »

Hybrid for how long though? It's hard to tell if it's hybrid until "normal" returns or hybrid indefinitely.

Well, circumstances allow for a possibly extended real world evaluation of the hybrid approach but it may not work for all businesses.

Christy42

Antares35 wrote: »

Hybrid for how long though? It's hard to tell if it's hybrid until "normal" returns or hybrid indefinitely.

It mentions that nearly 3 quarters expect the hybrid model to grow over the next 2-3 years. So at least that long. Individual businesses and sectors will vary and they may change their mind before then depending on outcomes.

It will also vary from team to team within a company but that is probably too specific for an article like this.

The main thing will be employee driven. Most places can't claim that the IT is too complicated to make it work anymore and if you want better employees and your competition offers it they may have to. Many will also save on rent using this strategy by simply downsizing or selling some of their offices.


Hopefully this means the national broadband plan will get more of a backing since employers will also put pressure on the government.

BrianD3

A lot of traffic on the roads these days, RTE piece from a coupe of weeks back said traffic back to 75% of 2019 levels and I'd say it is higher now. I'm starting to get pessimistic now that ordering staff back to offices is the norm rather than the exception.

This forum is a lot quieter now and the media is also clearly moving on to non Corona stories like housing and climate. I've seen very little coverage on the role WFH could pay in improving things. E.g. another piece on RTE recently about Ireland being one o the worst in the OECD for climate action and how we need more electric cars, higher taxes, congestion charges etc. - but nothing about the role WFH could play in taking thousands of cars off the roads formost of the week.

Yeah let's drag staff back to their offices in Dublin, who cares if they can't afford to live in Dublin. Let them live in Longford and commute to Dublin - by car because public transport is inadequate - then hit them with a congestion charge :rolleyes: But that's all grand because they might buy a coffee and sandwich in a Dublin business at lunchtime :rolleyes:

Esse85

BrianD3 wrote: »

A lot of traffic on the roads these days, RTE piece from a coupe of weeks back said traffic back to 75% of 2019 levels and I'd say it is higher now. I'm starting to get pessimistic now that ordering staff back to offices is the norm rather than the exception.

This forum is a lot quieter now and the media is also clearly moving on to non Corona stories like housing and climate. I've seen very little coverage on the role WFH could pay in improving things. E.g. another piece on RTE recently about Ireland being one o the worst in the OECD for climate action and how we need more electric cars, higher taxes, congestion charges etc. - but nothing about the role WFH could play in taking thousands of cars off the roads formost of the week.

Yeah let's drag staff back to their offices in Dublin, who cares if they can't afford to live in Dublin. Let them live in Longford and commute to Dublin - by car because public transport is inadequate - then hit them with a congestion charge :rolleyes: But that's all grand because they might buy a coffee and sandwich in a Dublin business at lunchtime :rolleyes:

Exactly, who gives a fcuk if they get killed in a car crash on their commute as long as they buy an overpriced sandwich and coffee from the local deli.

dkav9

is_that_so wrote: »

Not everyone is set up mentally nor physically for WFH. Some people work better with access to the water cooler stuff. What we've learnt from all of this is what social creatures we are. A hybrid model can consider the benefits of both options.

I fully appreciate that, however forcing everyone back to Dublin/other urban centres because it doesn't suit a few people WFH is hardly fair imo. Leave it up to the person, within reason

Antares35

BrianD3 wrote: »

A lot of traffic on the roads these days, RTE piece from a coupe of weeks back said traffic back to 75% of 2019 levels and I'd say it is higher now. I'm starting to get pessimistic now that ordering staff back to offices is the norm rather than the exception.

This forum is a lot quieter now and the media is also clearly moving on to non Corona stories like housing and climate. I've seen very little coverage on the role WFH could pay in improving things. E.g. another piece on RTE recently about Ireland being one o the worst in the OECD for climate action and how we need more electric cars, higher taxes, congestion charges etc. - but nothing about the role WFH could play in taking thousands of cars off the roads formost of the week.

Yeah let's drag staff back to their offices in Dublin, who cares if they can't afford to live in Dublin. Let them live in Longford and commute to Dublin - by car because public transport is inadequate - then hit them with a congestion charge :rolleyes: But that's all grand because they might buy a coffee and sandwich in a Dublin business at lunchtime :rolleyes:

Quite disheartening. There's definitely an agenda to get people back

Quin_Dub

Antares35 wrote: »

I had a look around at equivalent jobs in one particular rural area we were considering. If my current job doesn't offer at least a hybrid model going forward then I'll be going elsewhere. I would probably take around an 8k cut to do the same work there that I currently do in Dublin. But, if it means we can have a nicer house with more outside space for the kids, a better quality of life, less traffic and congestion and parks you can't get into at the weekend etc like we have in Dublin, I'd definitely consider it worthwhile.

I'm not sure if employers could reduce a salary you're already on, on the basis that you will be remote working, but it could certainly be a factor if applying for a new job. It might be something that happens organically tbh.

If they can show that a certain % of your salary is a "location allowance" or the like they can.

Or they just shift you to a different pay scale and any pay-rises/increments are adjusted to reflect your new location so that in a few years time you are "re-balanced" to your new location.

Supercell

We have been told we can WFH permanently if we want with the stipulation that we must go into the office at least one day a week which seems reasonable.
I cannot wait to go back though, with three kids in the house and summer holidays coming up it's going to be hard to focus on getting the work done again as we dont have the luxury of a large house and an office room. The work offices are a building site at the moment as the building owner is using this time as an opportunity to redevelop the site. September is when we are likely to be back (hopefully).

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Donal will also now have a choice of jobs that he can WFH as opposed to having to stay overnight in Dublin during the working week. In this scenario, WFH opens far more doors than it closes, it also provides the empolyer with a much larger pool of prospective candidates for the role.


This has often been a stumbling block for companies that are located "in the sticks" in that few people were willing to drive to the arse end of nowhere to work.

So you agree that it will drive wages down, over time?

Antares35

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If they can show that a certain % of your salary is a "location allowance" or the like they can.

Or they just shift you to a different pay scale.

Be curious to know how they can do either of those.

JDD

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If they can show that a certain % of your salary is a "location allowance" or the like they can.

Or they just shift you to a different pay scale and any pay-rises/increments are adjusted to reflect your new location so that in a few years time you are "re-balanced" to your new location.

On a macro level, that isn't such a bad thing though.

So you buy a house in Waterford that has more bedrooms and more outdoor space for less mortgage repayments than a smaller house in Dublin. In addition, your commuting costs are gone and food and drink locally is cheaper than in Dublin.

And your employer reduces your pay, so that you actually end up with the same amount of spendable money per month as you did in Dublin.

But you have a bigger house. And more outdoor space. And you are not commuting so you have all those hours back.

Still a win for the employee.

Supercell

Supercell wrote: »

We have been told we can WFH permanently if we want with the stipulation that we must go into the office at least one day a week which seems reasonable.
I cannot wait to go back though, with three kids in the house and summer holidays coming up it's going to be hard to focus on getting the work done again as we dont have the luxury of a large house and an office room. The work offices are a building site at the moment as the building owner is using this time as an opportunity to redevelop the site. September is when we are likely to be back (hopefully).

We’ve been told that is completely up to us. I know that most of the young ones who live in and around the city will be in 3 days a week (at least that’s what our internal polling says). I’ll go in 3 days every other week and spent the rest of the time in west Sligo (though have the advantage that I have a place to stay in Dublin). I know that there ate a couple of people who will not return at all

The office is being permanently reconfigured on that basis. Taking out about 1/3 of desks and spacing out the rest and making more hang-out common areas.

Ironically the nicer office environment will mean that more people probably want to be there!

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you agree that it will drive wages down, over time?

Increase the average wage, surely, as those in more remote areas get access to better paid work

Ms. Newbie18

Supercell wrote: »

We have been told we can WFH permanently if we want with the stipulation that we must go into the office at least one day a week which seems reasonable.
I cannot wait to go back though, with three kids in the house and summer holidays coming up it's going to be hard to focus on getting the work done again as we dont have the luxury of a large house and an office room. The work offices are a building site at the moment as the building owner is using this time as an opportunity to redevelop the site. September is when we are likely to be back (hopefully).

A lot of my colleagues have the same issue as you. Hard to work from home when you have small spaces and a tone of people in and out throughout the day.

Antares35

JDD wrote: »

On a macro level, that isn't such a bad thing though.

So you buy a house in Waterford that has more bedrooms and more outdoor space for less mortgage repayments than a smaller house in Dublin. In addition, your commuting costs are gone and food and drink locally is cheaper than in Dublin.

And your employer reduces your pay, so that you actually end up with the same amount of spendable money per month as you did in Dublin.

But you have a bigger house. And more outdoor space. And you are not commuting so you have all those hours back.

Still a win for the employee.

This is how we are viewing it in terms of buying outside Dublin and either working remotely several days or re-locating jobs to our new area. I'm happy to take up to a 10k cut and be confident our quality of life would not be adversely impacted.

2lazytogetup

Deleted User wrote: »

When I started work in the late 90s for a major bank, liquid lunch was in a dark pub behind
Smithfield market complete with with poles. Doesn’t feel long ago, but at the same time is a different era.

This was pre Euro, when there were still armies of currency traders filling the trading floor pits, all characters, trading 27 currencies against each other. The day that they all lost their jobs was the start of the end of liquid lunches

hearsay suggested that alot of firms in australia have a beer cart on friday afternoons. sounds a bit like a air host(esse) wheeling a tray around the office with employees selecting a beer. sounds so depressing. sitting there working at your desk with a beer