Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

amacca

Base price wrote: »

I was chatting on the phone to an elderly cousin of OH's. She is physically getting bet with aches and pains, although mentally sharp as razor but thankfully still living in her home albeit with a daily visit from the home help team. She and Mam used to walk to school together but she is two years younger than my Mam. Mam was born in Feb 1927 and died in May 2018.
Anyway we were talking about Covid and the recent surge in positive cases, hospital numbers and deaths. She was making the point that the "younger generation" (that's anyone under 70) haven't a clue about real hardship and she can't understand why "they" wanted to ease the restrictions for Christmas. She said that until you've lived and worked through the hardship of the Second War when there was a scarcity of food/fuel and rations books were the norm then surely "ye" (that's us) can stay at home with all your "inline" computers and televisions to keep ye occupied. In her day she didn't have those things and her parents/her waited for weeks to get a letter from her eldest brother who had moved to Dublin.
She said that "ye" haven't a iota about what it's like to live in hard times.

She is correct and a significant group of the new generation coming up are even more pampered and entitled than the previous group of brats!

If you go back as far as there are decipherable records you will find older generations complaining bitterly about younger ones....

But there must be a tiping point somewhere.........you cant keep lowering standards and expectations for people and expect things to keep motoring on, we can all console ourselves I supoose with the thought that not having basic levels of cop on and being spoilt/entitled and lazy and most of all stupid and facilitated in being so isnt going to end well for that group...its just a pity their actions affect other people less deserving of the consequences of them.

20silkcut

Base price wrote: »

I was chatting on the phone to an elderly cousin of OH's. She is physically getting bet with aches and pains, although mentally sharp as razor but thankfully still living in her home albeit with a daily visit from the home help team. She and Mam used to walk to school together but she is two years younger than my Mam. Mam was born in Feb 1927 and died in May 2018.
Anyway we were talking about Covid and the recent surge in positive cases, hospital numbers and deaths. She was making the point that the "younger generation" (that's anyone under 70) haven't a clue about real hardship and she can't understand why "they" wanted to ease the restrictions for Christmas. She said that until you've lived and worked through the hardship of the Second War when there was a scarcity of food/fuel and rations books were the norm then surely "ye" (that's us) can stay at home with all your "inline" computers and televisions to keep ye occupied. In her day she didn't have those things and her parents/her waited for weeks to get a letter from her eldest brother who had moved to Dublin.
She said that "ye" haven't a iota about what it's like to live in hard times.

Not to divert the discussion in a different direction but Ireland was a good place to be during world war 2 relative to the rest of Europe.
And the pubs were open and the GAA championships went ahead full steam granted you might have to cycle to get to a match.
The 1944 munster hurling final is forever known as the bicycle munster final.
But in terms of social and cultural life the war years are arguably better than a pandemic. A young person growing up in Ireland during the war could still go to school and pass all the milestones of life as per usual.
The hardships are more related to supply issues and more of the time period regardless of the war and were present both before and after for many years.

gk5000

The key difference is freedom, individual freedom

In a shortage everybody manages to their own abilities and desires.


Here it is enforced..a kind of communism, with its arbitrary rules.

Also we now know that that schools closing was totally unnecessary for the first lockdown, and its questionable if its necessary now.And are teachers any more deserving or in danger than shop workers?

yosemitesam1

Water John wrote: »

'I have followed all the rules and guidelines bar the advice that I cocoon myself as that's just not acceptable to me.' Sam

So you don't abide by the rules and guidelines.

When your choice is to blindly follow those who are making things up as they go along and hide under the bed to wait until I am guaranteed to go bankrupt, or do my own bit of independent thinking. It's not exactly a hard choice to make. Why would I trust politicians and public service "experts" who make a career out of f*****g up?
It's far too easy for a large portion of the population to blindly follow and not really question what we're being told.

Water John

The Level 5 restrictions in place are saving lives, just as the over relaxation of restrictions prior to Christmas has cost many lives.
As I say I have family on the front line of this along with a number of nieces. Dying from Covid is not pleasant and I do worry for the long term mental health of those facing the frontline everyday.
The rest of us have small troubles.

paddysdream

Water John wrote: »

The Level 5 restrictions in place are saving lives, just as the over relaxation of restrictions prior to Christmas has cost many lives.
As I say I have family on the front line of this along with a number of nieces. Dying from Covid is not pleasant and I do worry for the long term mental health of those facing the frontline everyday.
The rest of us have small troubles.

I actually worry for the mental health of those for whom covid has become the sole thing of importance in their life.

paddysdream

Base price wrote: »

I was chatting on the phone to an elderly cousin of OH's. She is physically getting bet with aches and pains, although mentally sharp as razor but thankfully still living in her home albeit with a daily visit from the home help team. She and Mam used to walk to school together but she is two years younger than my Mam. Mam was born in Feb 1927 and died in May 2018.
Anyway we were talking about Covid and the recent surge in positive cases, hospital numbers and deaths. She was making the point that the "younger generation" (that's anyone under 70) haven't a clue about real hardship and she can't understand why "they" wanted to ease the restrictions for Christmas. She said that until you've lived and worked through the hardship of the Second War when there was a scarcity of food/fuel and rations books were the norm then surely "ye" (that's us) can stay at home with all your "inline" computers and televisions to keep ye occupied. In her day she didn't have those things and her parents/her waited for weeks to get a letter from her eldest brother who had moved to Dublin.
She said that "ye" haven't a iota about what it's like to live in hard times.

Again my point exactly.
Not to cast any aspirations on the lady in question but at 92 would imagine Christmas and Santa etc are most probably not of the same import as they are for others.
Big difference between someone of that age living alone and a couple from Cavan and Clare married and living in a housing estate in greater Dublin area with 3 kids under 10 and being told they cant even go see the children's grandparents at Christmas.

When you actually sit down and think about it its the younger generation that are making the sacrifices (and paying for it) in order to protect those like that lady.
Would she actually have seen any reduction in income or had her life changed in any meaningful way since last March ?

Water John

paddysdream wrote: »

I actually worry for the mental health of those for whom covid has become the sole thing of importance in their life.

For me Covid is an inconvenience, nothing more. I do see how difficult it is for young families. Holding down a job (IN place or at home) and trying to home school.

Injuryprone

Footage doing the rounds this evening apparently of a large 'overly extravagant' wedding in Tralee today. Rules only apply to some

_Brian

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Friend of the wife is a nurse. She was off for 2 weeks as she was showing symptoms etc and tested positive. She left a ward with 18 patients all with covid on the level down from ICU. When she got back after the 14 days all 18 had been moved to ICU and died in there.

Wife was saying that the hospitals have seen nothing like this before. There’s always been individual cases of people dying that you thought would pull through. But so many people dying all of the same thing is unheard of.
She’s almost 30 years working where she is and knows many of those passing through or their families. If she’s not worrying at work has she picked it up or spread it to patients she’s worrying that she’s brought it home to our house and spread it to us.

Top that off they have been told that there will be a slash amd burn throughout the hse on everything after covid to cut costs back to the bone so long waiting lists will just get longer.

There are allot of longer term staff like herself talking about looking for early retirement after this, one can hardly blame them.

yosemitesam1

_Brian wrote: »

Top that off they have been told that there will be a slash amd burn throughout the hse on everything after covid to cut costs back to the bone so long waiting lists will just get longer.

Thats exactly the problem with our overreaction to covid. It's squandering resources in the short term, leaving us unable to give healthcare to people who would give a much greater return on those same resources over the medium to long term.

ruwithme

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Thats exactly the problem with our overreaction to covid. It's squandering resources in the short term, leaving us unable to give healthcare to people who would give a much greater return on those same resources over the medium to long term.

Shy of €50k debt in our country for every man ,woman &child alive at present.
It does indeed look like the money will run out long before the virus ever will.

Water John

Govn't debt is totally diff to personal debt. 1,000 deaths in Jan alone from this virus, what value do people put on those lives?

whelan2

Was reading a post on another forum from this time last year on covid, they were saying there could possibly be up to 20,000 cases of covid in Ireland , little did we know

_Brian

Water John wrote: »

Govn't debt is totally diff to personal debt. 1,000 deaths in Jan alone from this virus, what value do people put on those lives?

Often very little including people posting on this forum. Rubbish like “they had underlying conditions” or “they were old and would die soon anyway” are trotted out to somehow devalue the lives lost.
My OH has seen so many covid patients die who would have had long lives ahead of them, yes they may be older or have had kidney transplants, but these are real people with real lives and leave behind heartbroken families.

yosemitesam1

Water John wrote: »

Govn't debt is totally diff to personal debt. 1,000 deaths in Jan alone from this virus, what value do people put on those lives?

We are valuing years gained in the high hundreds of thousands. We have never deemed that acceptable before. That money could be put to much better use where it could save and improve MORE lives than it will on the current course. It is immoral to be digging ourselves in a hole without considering who will suffer as a result

wrangler

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We are valuing years gained in the high hundreds of thousands. We have never deemed that acceptable before. That money could be put to much better use where it could save and improve MORE lives than it will on the current course. It is immoral to be digging ourselves in a hole without considering who will suffer as a result

Those that are going to pay have grown up with an exaggerated level of expectation , what's coming won't do them a bit of harm.
We all had to do it, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

Those that are going to pay have grown up with an exaggerated level of expectation , what's coming won't do them a bit of harm.
We all had to do it, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger

Careful what you wish for, the state of the economy and health care services after all of this will see levels of care for the older generation drastically fall, we could have mother and baby home type set-ups just in reverse for the elderly down the line

paddysdream

wrangler wrote: »

Those that are going to pay have grown up with an exaggerated level of expectation , what's coming won't do them a bit of harm.
We all had to do it, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger

Do you not think that those who benefited most from it should be the ones to shoulder the burden ?
A cut in pensions perhaps .
Or maybe a complete stop on public service gratuity payments/pension top ups until this is paid for.

greysides

paddysdream wrote: »

Do you not think that those who benefited most from it should be the ones to shoulder the burden ?
A cut in pensions perhaps .

Mod: I see where you're coming from .... and I see where this is going. Let's not go there!

Shadow Dancer

I think the whole Covid thing is a very emotive issue for everyone. At the end of the day, whether you are anti lockdown because you understand the damages caused by same and see it's the government's duty to protect ALL of its citizens. Or are pro lockdown because you support the Government/EU/WEF/WHO/Big pharma and BELINDA in this casedemic, I think we all can agree on 1 thing.
Isn't it great nobody dies from the flu anymore!

dzer2

Shadow Dancer wrote: »

I think the whole Covid thing is a very emotive issue for everyone. At the end of the day, whether you are anti lockdown because you understand the damages caused by same and see it's the government's duty to protect ALL of its citizens. Or are pro lockdown because you support the Government/EU/WEF/WHO/Big pharma and BELINDA in this casedemic, I think we all can agree on 1 thing.
Isn't it great nobody dies from the flu anymore!

Or cancer, heart attack or brain hemorrhage

_Brian

Shadow Dancer wrote: »

I think the whole Covid thing is a very emotive issue for everyone. At the end of the day, whether you are anti lockdown because you understand the damages caused by same and see it's the government's duty to protect ALL of its citizens. Or are pro lockdown because you support the Government/EU/WEF/WHO/Big pharma and BELINDA in this casedemic, I think we all can agree on 1 thing.
Isn't it great nobody dies from the flu anymore!

Masses of ignorance behind that post

Shadow Dancer

_Brian wrote: »

Masses of ignorance behind that post

And that was a reading of the Holy Gospel according to St.Brian

einn32

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We are valuing years gained in the high hundreds of thousands. We have never deemed that acceptable before. That money could be put to much better use where it could save and improve MORE lives than it will on the current course. It is immoral to be digging ourselves in a hole without considering who will suffer as a result

Are you suggesting refusing people healthcare?

yosemitesam1

einn32 wrote: »

Are you suggesting refusing people healthcare?

No, I'm saying that by p1ssing away all our money on lockdowns now that we will be refusing people healthcare in the future because we wont have anyway to fund it.

Water John

We would save so much if Covid killed off a lot of the older people. That's a pure economic analysis and would do Trevelyan justice.

_Brian

Shadow Dancer wrote: »

And that was a reading of the Holy Gospel according to St.Brian

At least my post was factual

yosemitesam1

Water John wrote: »

We would save so much if Covid killed off a lot of the older people. That's a pure economic analysis and would do Trevelyan justice.

Where do you think the tradeoff is? It's not like 30-50k deaths was ever going to happen. We'll have over 50 billion of taxpayers money spent on preventing much less than 10k deaths.
As a consequence of that spending how much austerity will we face over the coming years? That will result in more deaths than otherwise would be expected.
If the sum of years of life saved by restrictions isn't greater than those lost as we recover from lockdown, what was the point?
Longer waiting lists and reduced budgets result in people dying earlier than they otherwise would. Are lives today worth more than lives tomorrow? Are some lives more equal than others? Most of the people who suffer over the coming years will have a median age of much less than 84...

yosemitesam1

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Where do you think the tradeoff is? It's not like 30-50k deaths was ever going to happen. We'll have over 50 billion of taxpayers money spent on preventing much less than 10k deaths.
As a consequence of that spending how much austerity will we face over the coming years? That will result in more deaths than otherwise would be expected.
If the sum of years of life saved by restrictions isn't greater than those lost as we recover from lockdown, what was the point?
Longer waiting lists and reduced budgets result in people dying earlier than they otherwise would. Are lives today worth more than lives tomorrow? Are some lives more equal than others? Most of the people who suffer over the coming years will have a median age of much less than 84...

There's about 500 suicides annually in the country. We were on a consistent decline since the economy started to recover. Between 2020-2025 we will most likely see the trend reverse. Say for arguments sake 300 extra with an average age of 35.
They should have an average of 50 years each left, so 15,000 years of life lost that could be prevented.
The average age of a covid death in western Europe is 80-85. They potentially have at best 3-5 years left. So we have to save a minimum of 3-5,000 lives from covid to just break even against the increase in suicides that we will most likely cause.

Then allow for increased waiting lists and reduced healthcare budgets into the future. We will want to have prevented at least 10,000 deaths for our reaction to covid to have any hope of being justified. Is there any reason to think that we have actually done that?