Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

Bass Reeves

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That €10 billion is just to the tax payer, that could very easily be multiples yet. It doesn't include the cost to the economy which will mean the total cost per life potentially (even with restrictions we we're unable to prevent the virus reaching nursing homes) saved will be over €100,000 no matter what way you play with the figures.
What value do you think someone's life is worth if they're 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 60-70, 70-80, 80+? Put a value on it.

Even work of the higher death rate and it still doesn't change the fact that it is a massive cost per person for very little benefit. Nobody apart from those with people closely affected by the inability to access expensive life saving/changing treatments ever gave a massive amount of thought to it. But now it's mammy or daddy, or granny and grandad who could be affected...

Problem is that the death rate climbs depending on if it is controlled or uncontrolled. In China it was a controlled situation. However I am a bit dubious of the Chinese figures.

But anyway say controlled is is 0.6%, in uncontrolled is up near 3% some doctors say even above that. Say in a controlled situation we get 100k cases and and 6-700 deaths.

In an uncontrolled maybe 1million and because the hospital's and staff are overwhelmed, as well as large numbers of health staff dying we end up with a death toll of 30k

I think countries that have gone uncontrolled will see horrendous casualty figured many that wi go unreported as they will massage the fight as what seems to be happening in the Uk

The issue is the peak and the way it is dealt with. The country look at is Germany and compare it's outcome to the UK down the line

yosemitesam1

_Brian wrote: »

€100,000 per life saved is nothing.

Going by your restrictions we should stop treating near all cancer patients, stop all organ transplants and most complex disease treatments. No more scoliosis Surgury for them bent over kids.

Heck insulin and associated hospital treatment of diabetics over their lifetime must be €100k so we should stop treating them too based on your new yellow pack value of a persons life.

Have to say your stance on Covid is disturbing, real fact denial is a sad thing. Putting future economic activity ahead of spending on saving thousands of lives is immoral at best and verging on disgusting.

We have X resources. If we spend them on Corona we won't have them for something else that is potentially more beneficial. That is a fact. What is disgusting about highlighting that? It's a sad reality of life that we don't have limitless resources

yosemitesam1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Problem is that the death rate climbs depending on if it is controlled or uncontrolled. In China it was a controlled situation. However I am a bit dubious of the Chinese figures.

But anyway say controlled is is 0.6%, in uncontrolled is up near 3% some doctors say even above that. Say in a controlled situation we get 100k cases and and 6-700 deaths.

In an uncontrolled maybe 1million and because the hospital's and staff are overwhelmed, as well as large numbers of health staff dying we end up with a death toll of 30k

I think countries that have gone uncontrolled will see horrendous casualty figured many that wi go unreported as they will massage the fight as what seems to be happening in the Uk

The issue is the peak and the way it is dealt with. The country look at is Germany and compare it's outcome to the UK down the line

Even at 30k deaths it's €300k/life to the taxpayer on top of loss to the economy

yosemitesam1

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Have you ever had a loved one who was denied access to care because of the cost, whether directly in medicine/procedure costs or indirectly due to underfunding of health budget?
Why is now any different?

No....and tbh i have never heard of people being denied healthcare here due to cost


Usually healthcare/continuing treatment come down to quality of life decisions in the end

Bass Reeves

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Even at 30k deaths it's €300k/life to the taxpayer on top of loss to the economy

It about much more than cost/life. Can you imagine the effect that 20-30k deaths would have on people if it happened over s 3-4 week period. Already people's where a family member die cannot go through a normal funeral, no mass no burial, no closing the coffin ceremony, saying good bye to the deceased and on top of that there will be a cremation as well.

Can you imagine the devastation of that happening 30k times in a 3-4 week period. Some cremations would not happen for weeks. We have to build crematorium's rather than hospital beds. That unless like with foot and mouth in the UK we stack them in fire pits.

As well as that you have to factor in the devastation it would cause in the Health service, you would have an extremely high casualty rate amount staff. If we went uncontrolled.could you ask health staff to actually go to work.

Buford T. Justice XIX

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That €10 billion is just to the tax payer, that could very easily be multiples yet. It doesn't include the cost to the economy which will mean the total cost per life potentially (even with restrictions we we're unable to prevent the virus reaching nursing homes) saved will be over €100,000 no matter what way you play with the figures.
What value do you think someone's life is worth if they're 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 60-70, 70-80, 80+? Put a value on it.

Even work of the higher death rate and it still doesn't change the fact that it is a massive cost per person for very little benefit. Nobody apart from those with people closely affected by the inability to access expensive life saving/changing treatments ever gave a massive amount of thought to it. But now it's mammy or daddy, or granny and grandad who could be affected...

Do you want to live in an economy or a society?

In a society, people are important and much time and money is spent on health and quality of life.

In an economy, businesses are important and much time and money is spent on ensuring profitability and continuation of businesses.

I might be on my own in this but I'm glad I live in a society where, despite my health being less than optimal, I am given the opportunity to stay alive and contribute to the society I live in.

Limestone Cowboy

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That €10 billion is just to the tax payer, that could very easily be multiples yet. It doesn't include the cost to the economy which will mean the total cost per life potentially (even with restrictions we we're unable to prevent the virus reaching nursing homes) saved will be over €100,000 no matter what way you play with the figures.
What value do you think someone's life is worth if they're 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 60-70, 70-80, 80+? Put a value on it.

Even work of the higher death rate and it still doesn't change the fact that it is a massive cost per person for very little benefit. Nobody apart from those with people closely affected by the inability to access expensive life saving/changing treatments ever gave a massive amount of thought to it. But now it's mammy or daddy, or granny and grandad who could be affected...

Put a value on your own there sure and you'll give the rest of us something to work off :rolleyes:

Buford T. Justice XIX

Travel restrictions into the country and within the country are being discussed today.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/travel-restrictions-into-and-on-island-of-ireland-to-be-discussed-by-nphet-today-991162.html

Gillespy

It's gives one a nice feeling to dismiss the economy and say silly things like ''one life is too much''. History shows people suffer and die in depressions and that comes next. I see no harm discussing that.

Issue is they left themselves no choice. This thing was coming and as an island on the edge of Europe we didn't even try anything to stop it. When China were building hospitals in mere days and driving trucks through the streets disinfecting buildings and roads, we were gormless as usual. If they weren't going to close the boarders, why not start preparing. Only this week they had to sent planes to China of PPE. Testing is a shambles, that should have been planned for. Our pain would be reduced significantly with a proper testing policy. A day late and a dollar short, costing lives today and will be felt for very long time when the virus is gone.

yosemitesam1

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Do you want to live in an economy or a society?

In a society, people are important and much time and money is spent on health and quality of life.

In an economy, businesses are important and much time and money is spent on ensuring profitability and continuation of businesses.

I might be on my own in this but I'm glad I live in a society where, despite my health being less than optimal, I am given the opportunity to stay alive and contribute to the society I live in.

We will have €10 billion (so far) less to spend on society over the coming years. How much damage will longer waiting lists, lack of bed capacity, reduced spending on mental health etc cost us in lives lost over the next 10 years. We can't spend all this now and not expect to be hit at some stage or can we?

alps

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

Covid-19 is more infectious to rich people than poor people. It seems it is anti capitalistic and it china it has slowed down

It's a rich world infection only because it has been transported around the world by rich peoples lifestyles...

However it will decimate poor people if it engulfs their countries..

_Brian

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Do you want to live in an economy or a society?

In a society, people are important and much time and money is spent on health and quality of life.

In an economy, businesses are important and much time and money is spent on ensuring profitability and continuation of businesses.

I might be on my own in this but I'm glad I live in a society where, despite my health being less than optimal, I am given the opportunity to stay alive and contribute to the society I live in.

I think the economy or society is a great question and I’d expect different answers from different demographics in society. Younger people with little life experience may think the former is the priority and that if you have a strong economy then a strong society will result.
That’s simply not true. Strong bullish economies are great for the 2%, hard work for about 80% amd absolutely awful for the rest. America is a stunning example, the richest third world ****hole country on the planet because it’s driven by noting but the economy and capitalism.

Bass Reeves

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We will have €10 billion (so far) less to spend on society over the coming years. How much damage will longer waiting lists, lack of bed capacity, reduced spending on mental health etc cost us in lives lost over the next 10 years. We can't spend all this now and not expect to be hit at some stage or can we?

A recession was coming anyway. There an old saying ''its an ill wind that blows no good''.

Say this had not happened and we went another 2-3 years of a boom, especially with Trump unbeatable in a US election. We would have a government under pressure to throw money at every sort of perceived problem. At least going into recession now we have money I in the back pocket to try to manage it

_Brian

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A recession was coming anyway. There an old saying ''its an ill wind that blows no good''.

Say this had not happened and we went another 2-3 years of a boom, especially with Trump unbeatable in a US election. We would have a government under pressure to throw money at every sort of perceived problem. At least going into recession now we have money I in the back pocket to try to manage it

Cheap money too. Cheapest it’s ever been.

Buford T. Justice XIX

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

We will have €10 billion (so far) less to spend on society over the coming years. How much damage will longer waiting lists, lack of bed capacity, reduced spending on mental health etc cost us in lives lost over the next 10 years. We can't spend all this now and not expect to be hit at some stage or can we?

You're well short of the cost of this at 10B, we're looking at multiples of that.

To let it spread though the population would dramatically slash the waiting lists. Patients going on ventilators would need 2 weeks or more on ventilation before they had a chance to come off, according to a few reports I read.

When there's pressure on ventilators in normal times with normal requirements, some of those needing ventilators will die but very small numbers.

When the requirements for ventilation exceed the ventilators by 3 or 4 fold, not only are the coronavirus patients going to die in droves, those normally requiring ventilators will also die in droves as there's no ventilators available.

And that's before you you add in the elderly, cancer patients, MS, asthma, diabetics, people with heart disease and many, many more before you get as far the the normally healthy people who will fall seriously ill and require hospitalisation.

And the doctors and nurses who have a hugely increased probability of catching this due to their care for those seriously ill with multiple diseases.

We lost a decade with the fcukwittery of the Celtic Tiger, a decade lost fighting this would be far more palatable, imo.

_Brian

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

You're well short of the cost of this at 10B, we're looking at multiples of that.

To let it spread though the population would dramatically slash the waiting lists. Patients going on ventilators would need 2 weeks or more on ventilation before they had a chance to come off, according to a few reports I read.

When there's pressure on ventilators in normal times with normal requirements, some of those needing ventilators will die but very small numbers.

When the requirements for ventilation exceed the ventilators by 3 or 4 fold, not only are the coronavirus patients going to die in droves, those normally requiring ventilators will also die in droves as there's no ventilators available.

And that's before you you add in the elderly, cancer patients, MS, asthma, diabetics, people with heart disease and many, many more before you get as far the the normally healthy people who will fall seriously ill and require hospitalisation.

And the doctors and nurses who have a hugely increased probability of catching this due to their care for those seriously ill with multiple diseases.

We lost a decade with the fcukwittery of the Celtic Tiger, a decade lost fighting this would be far more palatable, imo.

Viral load is an issue for front line staff too.

Where a patient isn’t identified soon enough staff can be exposed multiple times a day. It’s continuous exposure increases the viral load and even a healthy persons immune system is decimated and it’s hard to save them.

_Brian

See testing is suspended in border regions as supply of test kits is unclear.

Bound to happen as testing is ramped up, we’re currently testing at more than 2x that South Korea did and they were hailed as a model to follow. I think the issue of wholesale mask wearing should have been investigated as Korea do this and their numbers are staggeringly low.

I’d say this is local HSE putting pressure on to redistribute kits while more are sourced.

Say my name

alps wrote: »

However it will decimate poor people if it engulfs their countries..

It might not and there's possibly a bit of western thinking that they're better than the poorer countries.

In western countries we eliminate all bacteria and viruses where possible.
In the poorer countries they're way more advanced than we are and instead of killing things they use solutions called Effective Microorganisms that they cultivate in the forest into solutions and use that instead of the way we use savlon and dettol. The theory is and it's effective hence the name is that the solution contains billions of different types of organisms that crowd out any one bacteria or virus and stop that to proliferate.
I don't know how widespread it's use is but it's definitely a thing and commercially available and at odds with western home management.

But the mo of this virus seems to be attacking those most who haven't been exposed to various viruses and bacteria that children in western society have and constantly do.
Think of it as your Dutch heifers coming from an indoor system into Ireland. Fine indoors in Holland. Put them outdoors in a field in Ireland and they pick up everything.

The story of this virus is still being written.

Base price

17 deaths today and 325 new cases.
https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/#march-31

alps

325 new cases...

Remember folks....

We don't have an infection rate...

We have a detection rate....

Water John

Stupid middle aged bitch in Cork decided to drive with the husband to post a letter. Stopped by the Guards and she tells them that she has been tested and is positive. Guards tell her go home.
I suppose she thought she had no risk of infection as she already had it.

Dinzee Conlee

Water John wrote: »

Stupid middle aged bitch in Cork decided to drive with the husband to post a letter. Stopped by the Guards and she tells them that she has been tested and is positive. Guards tell her go home.
I suppose she thought she had no risk of infection as she already had it.

Where was this, and how did you hear of it?

_Brian

Water John wrote: »

Stupid middle aged bitch in Cork decided to drive with the husband to post a letter. Stopped by the Guards and she tells them that she has been tested and is positive. Guards tell her go home.
I suppose she thought she had no risk of infection as she already had it.

The virus has changed much about the country and how were living, but not things like the fact that lots of the population are total idiots.

CloughCasey1

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Put a value on your own there sure and you'll give the rest of us something to work off :rolleyes:

I'd bag him and **** him in the lake as according to himself he is worthless.

Buford T. Justice XIX

The graphics in the tweet below are a great case for wearing masks in public spaces.
https://twitter.com/AndyBiotech/status/1244418163741282308?s=19
It'll be a while before there's any available for the general public, though.

Water John

Sorry can't find where I read the article.
Buford, Fauci is talking about the public wearing masks in the US.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Water John wrote: »

Sorry can't find where I read the article.
Buford, Fauci is talking about the public wearing masks in the US.

I was watching a few clips of himself and Cuomo over the last few days and both have been very impressive performers both on camera and in the work they're doing.

Say my name

Ah come on Clough we're all entitled to our opinions here. It's what makes this forum tick with all differing opinions.

Yosemitesam I've a feeling is able to run rings around us all as farmers.
It's no harm to have anyone's thoughts questioned and who knows he may be correct.

The current status of the country is phucked and the restrictions are more so.
There's people who can't visit terminal ill relations (from other conditions) and if the worst happens atm won't be allowed attend their funeral.
But if it does mean that other lives are saved with this clampdown then it'll be worth it but it'll still grate with the people involved now forever in their lives.

But Yosemitesam has always insisted we need to know where we are with this virus in this country.
This could be the last days of it. But it looks like the restrictions will be held while positives keep showing up.

CloughCasey1

Say my name wrote: »

Ah come on Clough we're all entitled to our opinions here. It's what makes this forum tick with all differing opinions.

Yosemitesam I've a feeling is able to run rings around us all as farmers.
It's no harm to have anyone's thoughts questioned and who knows he may be correct.

The current status of the country is phucked and the restrictions are more so.
There's people who can't visit terminal ill relations (from other conditions) and if the worst happens atm won't be allowed attend their funeral.
But if it does mean that other lives are saved with this clampdown then it'll be worth it but it'll still grate with the people involved now forever in their lives.

But Yosemitesam has always insisted we need to know where we are with this virus in this country.
This could be the last days of it. But it looks like the restrictions will be held while positives keep showing up.

Yes Ped. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm a dad, husband, son, brother, businessman and farmer. Priority in that order also. No life is worth losing. Ya cant put a value on a life no matter what age. Whether the governments in any country believes in the current agenda is only guessing. Whether they know more than they let on is another question. It would be political suicide for them to put a value on life and put the economy first. Unfortunatly they may have done so as the cat was well out of the bag before there was any reaction. Life will go on. We will get over it we will come out the other side. But if anyone wants to be the one who puts a € ahead of the lives of his/her people then they will be the one remembered in 80 years time like a small vocal moustached fella was back then.

Say my name

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Yes Ped. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm a dad, husband, son, brother, businessman and farmer. Priority in that order also. No life is worth losing. Ya cant put a value on a life no matter what age. Whether the governments in any country believes in the current agenda is only guessing. Whether they know more than they let on is another question. It would be political suicide for them to put a value on life and put the economy first. Unfortunatly they may have done so as the cat was well out of the bag before there was any reaction. Life will go on. We will get over it we will come out the other side. But if anyone wants to be the one who puts a € ahead of the lives of his/her people then they will be the one remembered in 80 years time like a small vocal moustached fella was back then.

As long as you know it's not completely as straightforward as that.
There's been suicides just from the anxiety of people thinking they may get the worst effects of this.
Normality is what people want to get back to.

I know what you're saying and I don't envy any government dealing with this ****show.