Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

alps

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Immunity to the coronavirus's seems to be much more complicated than for other viruses like chicken pox.
If the full virus doesn't give immunity longer than a year, and there's no reason to think it should. Are we all going to be going for multiple Corona shots per year?

By the nature of recovering from a virus infection, does a person have an immunity for even a short amount of time?

Water John

The link piece posted earlier by Greysides, post 1028, gives a great insight into the new range of vaccines. One is no longer relying on a live or dead virus in the vaccine. One is using RNA or DNA out of the virus to cause the immune system to produce antibodies.

yosemitesam1

alps wrote: »

By the nature of recovering from a virus infection, does a person have an immunity for even a short amount of time?

It might only last week's to month's. From the paper I posted that was based on young and healthy adults between 18 and 50.

When challenged after 1 year all of the original uninfected group were infected
and 6/9 of the infected group were reinfected. These data do not fit any simple
model. It may be that the small amounts of antibody remaining in the original
infected group contributed to resistance to reinfection in some volunteers. It may
also have prevented colds and shortened the duration of virus shedding. The
original uninfected group also shed virus for only a short time and only one
volunteer got a cold. Their mean antibody concentrations were still higher than in
the infected group before the first trial. They could have had an intervening
coronavirus infection or perhaps tend to have higher concentrations of specific
antibody at any time. This could be because they produce more antibody as a
result of infection or, as appears more likely from this study, they retain antibody
for longer. Further study of peak concentrations and rates of decline is necessary
to ascertain which is the case. In the infected group there were considerable
individual differences. Some lost their antibody, particularly serum antibody,
completely by 1 year, some did not. Such differences are also seen in rhinovirus
infections [11]. They indicate that resistance may be a more inherent characteristic
than is generally supposed. It is known that extroversion, obsessionality and other
essentially permanent psychological characteristics seem to be related to infection
rates [26, 27]. We are now studying links between such characteristics and
antibody concentrations. Other factors must be analysed as well; for example, the
cellular arm of the immune system may play a role.
The incidence of reinfection after 1 year was greater than that observed with rhinovirus infection [11] and did not support Reed's study [14] in which
reinfection with a homologous coronavirus strain after 1 year did not occur. Also,
antibody was still declining, albeit slowly. Coronaviruses have been shown to
cause almost 20 % of all colds [28] and since the two main serotypes are roughly
equally prevalent (Callow, unpublished observation), any one serotype would
cause about 10% of all colds. Since adults have about two colds per year on
average [29, 30] and about half of all coronavirus infections are subclinical [31, 32],
each adult should have a coronavirus infection every 2-3 years. This agrees with
Monto [33] who suggested a 2-3 year cyclic pattern. It indicates that protective
amounts of antibody may have disappeared by 2 years, and that if we had been
able to reinoculate the volunteers after a further year, the reinfection rate would
have been even higher.

The most at risk groups tend to have lower antibody post infection so presumably have a shorter period of immunity.

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

By the nature of recovering from a virus infection, does a person have an immunity for even a short amount of time?

It depends on the virus, tbh. Lepto has to be done every year whereas the different strains of flu give partial immunity for a number of years after exposure either through vaccination or contracting it.

There's still a lot of speculation about the secondary positives from testing 'cured cases' including testing positive to broken virus particles that cannot cause disease to the virus remaining present but at levels small enough to escape detection.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/17/836747242/in-south-korea-a-growing-number-of-covid-19-patients-test-positive-after-recover?r=1

And loosening restrictions too soon could also see a spike in numbers shortly after the loosening leading us back to square 1 with another months long lockdown.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/16/new-mit-machine-learning-model-shows-relaxing-quarantine-rules-will-spike-covid-19-cases/

tanko

Did i hear on the radio earlier that people who have had the Corona Virus and recovered from it don't have immunity to it and could possibly get it again??

If this is true then the only hope is a vaccine.

Say my name

tanko wrote: »

Did i hear on the radio earlier that people who have had the Corona Virus and recovered from it don't have immunity to it and could possibly get it again??

If this is true then the only hope is a vaccine.

From YosemiteSam's links above on coronavirus it appears those who show no symptoms at first contracting would show no symptoms at next contracting perhaps in a year's time.
There does seem to be some immunity gained from the initial contact but that diminishes over time and depending on subsequent contact with a coronavirus.

tanko

tanko wrote: »

Did i hear on the radio earlier that people who have had the Corona Virus and recovered from it don't have immunity to it and could possibly get it again??

If this is true then the only hope is a vaccine.

The same is true of chicken pox....some people can get it several times.....noone seems 100% sure at this stage

gk5000

_Brian wrote: »

We need to move the care of vulnerable elderly away from a for profit model. That just encourages care at the lowest possible cost which isn’t good.

Maybe it’s time for a different model. Maybe a not for profit model where care is the priority not profit. When you see hospital consultants flocking to get their money invested in care homes it’s obviously a very lucrative market.

First check where the nursing home deaths are, public or private.
I believe the phoenix park HSE home was one of the worst.
Also remember that HSE/HIQA regulates and inspects all nursing homes.

At the end of the day would you prefer to be totally dependant on the HSE and its ilk? I for one would not.

_Brian

gk5000 wrote: »

First check where the nursing home deaths are, public or private.
I believe the phoenix park HSE home was one of the worst.
Also remember that HSE/HIQA regulates and inspects all nursing homes.

At the end of the day would you prefer to be totally dependant on the HSE and its ilk? I for one would not.

There’s a private one in Monaghan I believe possibly has a higher toll but hasn’t come to media attention.

No matter wit care needs to be taken away from profit mongers and maybe into an it for profit model.

wrangler

_Brian wrote: »

There’s a private one in Monaghan I believe possibly has a higher toll but hasn’t come to media attention.

No matter wit care needs to be taken away from profit mongers and maybe into an it for profit model.

Public service definitely hasn't proven itself in health care, there'd be some waiting list if it wasn't for private nursing homes

yosemitesam1

tanko wrote: »

Did i hear on the radio earlier that people who have had the Corona Virus and recovered from it don't have immunity to it and could possibly get it again??

If this is true then the only hope is a vaccine.

Don't see why a vaccine would be different unless it's multiple vaccine doses a year to everyone. Otherwise some will still be susceptible and some will randomly shed the virus.

tanko

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Don't see why a vaccine would be different unless it's multiple vaccine doses a year to everyone. Otherwise some will still be susceptible and some will randomly shed the virus.

Are you saying that if getting the virus and recovering from it doesn't give immunity that a vaccine won't give immunity either?

yosemitesam1

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01880-6

Well worth a read, gives a glimpse into how complex viruses are and how getting infected with viral diseases is much more complicated than simply coming into contact with the virus.

yosemitesam1

tanko wrote: »

Are you saying that if getting the virus and recovering from it doesn't give immunity that a vaccine won't give immunity either?

It is highly unlikely to be one jab and you'll never get covid 19 again. Most if not all coronavirus strains have ways around long-term immunity.
Maybe the new vaccine types might have a way around this but they are yet to prove how long the antibodies could survive

cj maxx

Say my name wrote: »

From YosemiteSam's links above on coronavirus it appears those who show no symptoms at first contracting would show no symptoms at next contracting perhaps in a year's time.
There does seem to be some immunity gained from the initial contact but that diminishes over time and depending on subsequent contact with a coronavirus.

Thanks.

Say my name

alps wrote: »

Would it not be top priority to find out the answer to this. It could only take 14 days to figure it out and I'm sure that for a proper fee, there would be willing subjects.

It appears people are taking immunity tests into their own hands away from national health organizations control.
Hence the WHO announcement that they'd rather anyone that tests positive for antibodies to still stay put.

https://medium.com/@phelanpat/getting-ireland-back-to-work-74d10cc3e9bd

_Brian

Mrs was saying that the death rate in the Cheltenham NHS hospital is double the death rates than anywhere else in the region.

Some people paying heavily for their day at the races now.

greysides

Most New York Coronavirus Cases Came From Europe, Genomes Show.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/science/new-york-coronavirus-cases-europe-genomes.html

yosemitesam1

https://www.bz-berlin.de/deutschland/kliniken-verband-schlaegt-alarm-wegen-corona-regeln

More than 50% of operations in Germany have been cancelled and 30-40% fewer stroke/heart attacks presenting to hospitals

_Brian

tanko wrote: »

Did i hear on the radio earlier that people who have had the Corona Virus and recovered from it don't have immunity to it and could possibly get it again??

If this is true then the only hope is a vaccine.

I think what they are saying is there is no evidence of immunity from infection.. I think they are trying to avoid a load of people who have had a sniffle over the last few weeks presuming the were infected and are now invincible so go about their lives as normal..


Gained immunity is a difficult thing, some cases its lifetime, sometimes its just a matter of a few weeks protection before your susceptsble to reinfection.. Without proper study and analytics being done its a dangerous thing to rely on..

I think there is also a problem with many of the antibody tests in that they show antibodies to "a coronavirus" but there is no knowing which coronavirus of which there are many circulating within the general population.

Buford T. Justice XIX

The lack of ventilators that was forecast might not be a limiting factor in survival rates. Laying patients on their stomach with some supplementary oxygen seems to have alleviated that potential bottleneck.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus.html#click=https://t.co/vC3G1YMolw

greysides

Testimonial from an Irish nurse:

A MESSAGE FROM A VERY CONCERNED NURSE:

Hi
Please withhold my name. I've just finished a long shift in a hospital as a nurse. I'm so worried that i can't bring myself to go home just yet and am sitting writing this in my car.
We found out this morning that many of the staff who have been caring for patients on a general ward are now contacts of Covid positive patients.
3 of the patients on the same ward are now positive. We have all cared for these patients for days on end without masks as we are prohibited to use them on a general ward.
As if that wasn't bad enough none of us are going to be swabbed. All of us have been told to continue work as normal and that occ health will be in touch at some stage. No self isolation for us just temperature checks.
So basically all of us staff might have the virus but because we are so short staffed they won't isolate us unless we develop a temperature which will be too late if we have the virus.
The patients diagnosed are now all in isolation and now we are using PPE for them but we weren't up until today.
I have heard this is happening in lots of hospitals.
I'm sick to the pit of my stomach. We all are. All of us have loved ones and all of us are terrified of bringing the virus home to them.
It's no wonder so many staff are showing up positive for Covid 19 when management are willing to take risks with our lives. Not only that but we could easily pass it on to other patients who don't have the virus now.
This crisis has shown us the true extent of how much we are thought of. I'm definitely leaving nursing as soon as this crisis is over. I'm out of it for good. Not because I don't love my job, I really do but because we are still being treated so badly even more so now. Jesus how many of us are going to suffer from PTSD after this.
They just do not give a flying **** about any of the staff. Its just shocking whats happening and people need to know the real truth. Many of our great healthcare workers are sick to their stomachs tonight and with good reason.
Thank you for your time.

alps

+1 on above greysides..

My daughter is living in a house with nurses in Dublin and they have exactly the same experience. Non covid wards but the patients are picking it up in hospital. Staff not being tested until symptoms arise...then trying to isolate in bedrooms and share kitchens at different times in rented houses. Panic attacks and needle stick injuries and absolute dismay at management who hide from decisions..

The virus is being passed around from staff and patients on these non covid wards, and staff wished they were on covid wards as they would at least have some proper PPE and procedures.

Daughter is working from home so doesn't have to present at office. Disaster now that she didn't "break for it" the night of the lockdown and base herself here. We had facilities for her to quarantine, but now she's in the middle of the drama of nurses going through a horrid time, trying to help those isolating and trying to arrange use of house facilities for those looking for tests and waiting for results..

One of the golden rules of employment is that the employer is responsible for the employees safety...the carry on here is outrageous..

It's on a par with the institutional crimes that happened in Ireland in the past and if equated with in a work setting, if deafness claims in the defence forces cost the country money, this neglect is sure as hell going to cost a fortune in the future..

wrangler

alps wrote: »

+1 on above greysides..

My daughter is living in a house with nurses in Dublin and they have exactly the same experience. Non covid wards but the patients are picking it up in hospital. Staff not being tested until symptoms arise...then trying to isolate in bedrooms and share kitchens at different times in rented houses. Panic attacks and needle stick injuries and absolute dismay at management who hide from decisions..

The virus is being passed around from staff and patients on these non covid wards, and staff wished they were on covid wards as they would at least have some proper PPE and procedures.

Daughter is working from home so doesn't have to present at office. Disaster now that she didn't "break for it" the night of the lockdown and base herself here. We had facilities for her to quarantine, but now she's in the middle of the drama of nurses going through a horrid time, trying to help those isolating and trying to arrange use of house facilities for those looking for tests and waiting for results..

One of the golden rules of employment is that the employer is responsible for the employees safety...the carry on here is outrageous..

It's on a par with the institutional crimes that happened in Ireland in the past and if equated with in a work setting, if deafness claims in the defence forces cost the country money, this neglect is sure as hell going to cost a fortune in the future..

The shortage is world wide ,they can't magic the stuff at this stage.
Like the deafness they/we'll have to pay for this when it's all over.

addaword

_Brian wrote: »

Mrs was saying that the death rate in the Cheltenham NHS hospital is double the death rates than anywhere else in the region.

Some people paying heavily for their day at the races now.

Indeed there was someone on the radio the other day that pointed out there was more Corona Virus in Ireland than Cheltenham then, per head of population, so it was some of us going over there for the few days who infected those at the races, most likely.

K.G.

Anybody on here think western society is gone pure useless that we cant knock out ppe equipment when we need it and instead relying on equally expensive imported stuff.i know people will say its not as simple as that but it seems to be we have fellas knocking data analysis programs by the new time but its ppe thats crucial.

Tonynewholland

K.G. wrote: »

Anybody on here think western society is gone pure useless that we cant knock out ppe equipment when we need it and instead relying on equally expensive imported stuff.i know people will say its not as simple as that but it seems to be we have fellas knocking data analysis programs by the new time but its ppe thats crucial.

€20 million worth of PPE gear fitted on one passenger plane.

Base price

K.G. wrote: »

Anybody on here think western society is gone pure useless that we cant knock out ppe equipment when we need it and instead relying on equally expensive imported stuff.i know people will say its not as simple as that but it seems to be we have fellas knocking data analysis programs by the new time but its ppe thats crucial.

Cheap labour and we don't have that anymore.

yosemitesam1

wrangler

K.G. wrote: »

Anybody on here think western society is gone pure useless that we cant knock out ppe equipment when we need it and instead relying on equally expensive imported stuff.i know people will say its not as simple as that but it seems to be we have fellas knocking data analysis programs by the new time but its ppe thats crucial.

I was remarking that to some one yesterday, the HSE is pure useless.
Their carry on for the annual flu is a joke, it's like a dairy farmer having no calving pens the first day of the calving season........ he definitely wouldn't be caught out the next year .
Their management of the virus is like facing the calving season with no parlour. They should've known that vital stuff would be scarce...... it's poor judgement if they're risking lives in the frontline because they can't make stuff as cheap here