Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

paddysdream

odyssey06 wrote: »

Why does it matter whether they were healthy or not?
Do we only have a health service to treat the healthy and young?
Worry about Ireland eh, but don't give a damn about the vulnerable?
People under 80 with vulnerable conditions could expect to live for decades more with medication to manage their conditions.
They are the ones who make up the majority of our ICU admissions, especially the 55-64 bracket.

This is not some HSE 'tizzy',
Countries across the continent are evaluating how their hospital systems will cope with rapidly increasing patient numbers amid the pandemic’s second wave. France and Switzerland’s intensive care facilities may reach capacity by mid-November with Germany’s stretching to December. The Swiss city of Geneva has already begun airlifting patients to quieter regions, as Belgian officials consider how to decide who most needs a bed despite doubling its ICU capacity.

It matters if they are young ,healthy etc as your chances of surviving anything are greater.
Health service makes choices each and every day otherwise why would any drug/treatment etc not be used ?The cost of some is such that they are not used or only used in certain cases.Remember reading about people pleading for treatment but it was decided by HSE that it was not cost efficient.What about the regular fundraisers for people to go to US/UK etc for treatment.

Worry about Ireland only ? Yes and why not.Would make no apologies for that as where my family and I live so its rather natural I should imagine.

paddysdream

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Belgian health care system only 10 days from collapse.
https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1323196183578316800?s=19

5 days as thats dated 30th October and interview was 29th October

longgonesilver

I came across this in the main Covid thread.

A new mutation of the virus has been identified in mink in Denmark. It appears to have crossed the species barrier into the workers and onward from them to other humans. This is possibly a new strain, a separate pandemic. The Danish government has ordered the destruction of every Mink in the country, 15 to 17 million of them. Seagulls might also be involved in the transmission.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115174162&postcount=651


https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/1104/1175979-denmark-mink-cull/

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/europe-aj/europe-covid-19-sept-13-2020-may-31-2021/893095-denmark-coronavirus-detected-in-207-mink-farms-all-danish-mink-15-17-million-must-be-killed-because-coronavirus-has-mutated-and-has-spread-to-humans-12-people-registered-with-the-mutated-virus/page3#post897857

_Brian

longgonesilver wrote: »

I came across this in the main Covid thread.

A new mutation of the virus has been identified in mink in Denmark. It appears to have crossed the species barrier into the workers and onward from them to other humans. This is possibly a new strain, a separate pandemic. The Danish government has ordered the destruction of every Mink in the country, 15 to 17 million of them. Seagulls might also be involved in the transmission.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115174162&postcount=651


https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/1104/1175979-denmark-mink-cull/

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/europe-aj/europe-covid-19-sept-13-2020-may-31-2021/893095-denmark-coronavirus-detected-in-207-mink-farms-all-danish-mink-15-17-million-must-be-killed-because-coronavirus-has-mutated-and-has-spread-to-humans-12-people-registered-with-the-mutated-virus/page3#post897857

You can see with mink farming and working with caged animals how transmission can happen so easily, one wonders how the seagulls are involved and it’s worrying because of their wild nature.

Gael23

_Brian wrote: »

You can see with mink farming and working with caged animals how transmission can happen so easily, one wonders how the seagulls are involved and it’s worrying because of their wild nature.

How would such a large cull be carried out?

yosemitesam1

Interesting looking at how the number of weekly tests has declined by almost 40,000 over the last 2 weeks.
Would be very interesting to know what the driver of this was and does the severity of restrictions impact on whether or not a close contact or person with cold symptoms will seek a test

_Brian

Gael23 wrote: »

How would such a large cull be carried out?

Have no idea.
Isn’t Co2 asphyxiation commonly used in the fur industry?

_Brian

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Interesting looking at how the number of weekly tests has declined by almost 40,000 over the last 2 weeks.
Would be very interesting to know what the driver of this was and does the severity of restrictions impact on whether or not a close contact or person with cold symptoms will seek a test

Read somewhere that numbers of close contacts was well down again, wouldn’t that require considerably less tests.

arctictree

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Interesting looking at how the number of weekly tests has declined by almost 40,000 over the last 2 weeks.
Would be very interesting to know what the driver of this was and does the severity of restrictions impact on whether or not a close contact or person with cold symptoms will seek a test

Maybe most people have got it and recovered? Have we reached close to testing most of the population at this stage?

alps

Cant believe there are so many mink farms in Denmark..? We have 2 in Ireland and there's some noise over them..

longgonesilver

Gael23 wrote: »

How would such a large cull be carried out?

C02 would be the day to day method.

For mass culls In poultry/pig type housing the vents are closed, fans are turned off and humane poisonous gas is released into the house. Wait some time then open everything and collect and burn the remains.

I'm not sure how mink are housed but think there is something about them being kept cool so they grow better fur. Houses are possibly more open then but escape has to be prevented.

longgonesilver

I guess the seagulls are hanging around stealing fish offal out of skips out back. They are being blamed for spreading it from house to house.

The Danes are destroying the entire industry even though the affected houses are mainly in the north.

K.G.

arctictree wrote: »

Maybe most people have got it and recovered? Have we reached close to testing most of the population at this stage?

People in certain area s such as working in healthcare have been tested multiple times

emaherx

K.G. wrote: »

People in certain area s such as working in healthcare have been tested multiple times

Also out of the 1.6M tests most were negative so amount of people tested is irrelevant.

yosemitesam1

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1115707/sweden-number-of-deaths-per-week/

Looking like Sweden's total all cause mortality is on track to be pretty much bang on average assuming 280 deaths per day until the end of the year.

_Brian

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1115707/sweden-number-of-deaths-per-week/

Looking like Sweden's total all cause mortality is on track to be pretty much bang on average assuming 280 deaths per day until the end of the year.

280 deaths a day is some tally.

Look at it another way, if that were 280 deaths from car accidents or house fires, people would think it awful and expect immediate action. Yet with coronavirus people want to learn to live with it.

paddysdream

_Brian wrote: »

280 deaths a day is some tally.

Look at it another way, if that were 280 deaths from car accidents or house fires, people would think it awful and expect immediate action. Yet with coronavirus people want to learn to live with it.

Presume thats total daily deaths from all causes. That's the thing;people hear figures like 3 died today with covid and forget that perhaps another 70 or 80 people died of other causes.
How many have died or will die due to all emphasis on covid 19 to what seems like the total exclusion of everything else?

_Brian

paddysdream wrote: »

Presume thats total daily deaths from all causes. That's the thing;people hear figures like 3 died today with covid and forget that perhaps another 70 or 80 people died of other causes.
How many have died or will die due to all emphasis on covid 19 to what seems like the total exclusion of everything else?

I agree we need to get and keep on top of the usual killer stuff. That goes without saying.

But this is something new, not a year in existence yet and people are talking about accepting it killing 2-300 people a day like that’s somehow something we can live with.

We see with the quick transition into and back out of mink just how dangerous allowing this and similar virus to hang about in our population is.

Controlling and eliminating covid is a massive temporary priority until suitable vaccines are in use. We can’t take our eye off covid or it runs rampant through the population killing as it goes.

If people would properly respect the lower levels of controlls we could get back to the routine management of public health. It’s simple stuff but people won’t do it. And so we need regular higher level lockdowns to reset the numbers that people let get out of control.

yosemitesam1

_Brian wrote: »

280 deaths a day is some tally.

Look at it another way, if that were 280 deaths from car accidents or house fires, people would think it awful and expect immediate action. Yet with coronavirus people want to learn to live with it.

280 deaths is a daily death rate from ALL causes that might be higher than what will actually occur.
But if Sweden can end up with a fairly normal total amount of deaths for the year, it really begs the question whether restrictions are simply in place to add weeks/months to a minority of the population's lives?
A large amount of European countries (us included) will be recording excess deaths for the year, which simply does not add up

tanko

_Brian wrote: »

I agree we need to get and keep on top of the usual killer stuff. That goes without saying.

But this is something new, not a year in existence yet and people are talking about accepting it killing 2-300 people a day like that’s somehow something we can live with.

We see with the quick transition into and back out of mink just how dangerous allowing this and similar virus to hang about in our population is.

Controlling and eliminating covid is a massive temporary priority until suitable vaccines are in use. We can’t take our eye off covid or it runs rampant through the population killing as it goes.

If people would properly respect the lower levels of controlls we could get back to the routine management of public health. It’s simple stuff but people won’t do it. And so we need regular higher level lockdowns to reset the numbers that people let get out of control.

We need to do this, we need to do that.....
How much of a reduction in income has your family suffered as a result of the government imposed lockdowns this year???

_Brian

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

280 deaths is a daily death rate from ALL causes that might be higher than what will actually occur.
But if Sweden can end up with a fairly normal total amount of deaths for the year, it really begs the question whether restrictions are simply in place to add weeks/months to a minority of the population's lives?
A large amount of European countries (us included) will be recording excess deaths for the year, which simply does not add up

The more we let it circulate through the population the more people are badly affected.

You talk of weeks/months.

Where is the cut off, what amount of time are you willing to steal from the end of someone’s life to live your “normal life”

And remember these are people’s mothers and fathers.

So think if your own parents.

How long of their lives would you be willing to sacrifice so your neighbor can browse pennies without masks, so they can go getting pissed at the weekend ??

Will you accept a week, a month, a year ? Maybe five years off your orients life is ok for you ??

My father is dead a long time but another month with him would be glorious. My mum is a life long smoker and a long term cancer survivor, I expect she has another 5-10 years if not more, but she knows with her bad chest that covid would likely kill her.

My wife has seen countless people pass away who even with their underlying conditions would likely have lived 5-10 amd even more years.

_Brian

tanko wrote: »

We need to do this, we need to do that.....
How much of a reduction in income has your family suffered as a result of the government imposed lockdowns this year???

Substantial enough actually.

But not such that it puts us under pressure.

yosemitesam1

_Brian wrote: »

The more we let it circulate through the population the more people are badly affected.

You talk of weeks/months.

Where is the cut off, what amount of time are you willing to steal from the end of someone’s life to live your “normal life”

And remember these are people’s mothers and fathers.

So think if your own parents.

How long of their lives would you be willing to sacrifice so your neighbor can browse pennies without masks, so they can go getting pissed at the weekend ??

Will you accept a week, a month, a year ? Maybe five years off your orients life is ok for you ??

My father is dead a long time but another month with him would be glorious. My mum is a life long smoker and a long term cancer survivor, I expect she has another 5-10 years if not more, but she knows with her bad chest that covid would likely kill her.

My wife has seen countless people pass away who even with their underlying conditions would likely have lived 5-10 amd even more years.

People die either way, we are worse than Sweden for total mortality but yet as if that wasn't bad enough, we are heavily restricted on how we can live our lives.
We are losing both ways and that is before we take a medium to long term view where the gap in deaths is only likely to grow between us and them.

_Brian

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

People die either way, we are worse than Sweden for total mortality but yet as if that wasn't bad enough, we are heavily restricted on how we can live our lives.
We are losing both ways and that is before we take a medium to long term view where the gap in deaths is only likely to grow between us and them.

Nice.
But you dodged the question on what you deem acceptable to steal from a life so you can live normally.

Because that’s the crux of your argument. Let’s accept these early deaths so we “get back to normal”

yosemitesam1

_Brian wrote: »

Nice.
But you dodged the question on what you deem acceptable to steal from a life so you can live normally.

Because that’s the crux of your argument. Let’s accept these early deaths so we “get back to normal”

That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying restrictions are killing more people than they are saving, the cherry on top is that we can't live normally while this occurs

jaymla627

_Brian wrote: »

Nice.
But you dodged the question on what you deem acceptable to steal from a life so you can live normally.

Because that’s the crux of your argument. Let’s accept these early deaths so we “get back to normal”

Current strategy took by the government seems very wise given what's unfolding in mainland Eurppe re infection rates, but this is the last roll of the dice, up to and after xmas for a period where level 5 lockdowns can be economically sustained, a well respected figure in America is that for every 1% rise in unemployment 40,000 additional people a year die, in a welfare state like Ireland of course this figure will be lower but this only remains the case so long as the Irish government has access to extra funding to keep doling out money all bets are off if the ecb suddenly stopped the overdraft from going anymore down the line

_Brian

jaymla627 wrote: »

Current strategy took by the government seems very wise given what's unfolding in mainland Eurppe re infection rates, but this is the last roll of the dice, up to and after xmas for a period where level 5 lockdowns can be economically sustained, a well respected figure in America is that for every 1% rise in unemployment 40,000 additional people a year die, in a welfare state like Ireland of course this figure will be lower but this only remains the case so long as the Irish government has access to extra funding to keep doling out money all bets are off if the ecb suddenly stopped the overdraft from going anymore down the line

Agreed.
I said temporary in a previous post.

As for it being the last throw of the dice. Really that’s down to joe public. Work we fall
Back to L2 or L3 or whatever. People can’t just go back to their usual pre covid behaviour, drinking and slobbering all over each other. If that happens we will be back in L5 by March/April. But that can be avoided.

gozunda

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

People die either way, we are worse than Sweden for total mortality but yet as if that wasn't bad enough, we are heavily restricted on how we can live our lives.
We are losing both ways and that is before we take a medium to long term view where the gap in deaths is only likely to grow between us and them.

No. not correct

RoI has population 4.9 million. Sweden has population 10.2 million.

Covid: Ireland

Cases 64,855

Deaths 1,945

Covid Sweden:

Cases 146,461

Deaths 6,022

And that's not even taking into account the differences in hospital resources between the two countries.

Things not looking good over there tbh. - they are now putting in place even more restrictions.

yosemitesam1

gozunda wrote: »

No. not correct

RoI has population 4.9 million. Sweden has population 10.2 million.

Covid: Ireland

Cases 64,855

Deaths 1,945

Covid Sweden:

Cases 146,461

Deaths 6,022

And that's not even taking into account the differences in hospital resources between the two countries.

Things not looking good over there tbh. - they are now putting in place even more restrictions.

Total mortality not covid mortality.
We are running excess deaths of 1,200. They are on track for no excess deaths

gozunda

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Total mortality not covid mortality.
We are running excess deaths of 1,200. They are on track for no excess deaths

it might be good to stick to Covid deaths (and infection rates) tbh.

Thats the significant issue here and managing those and stopping infection rates rising to stop our hospital resources being overun.